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Genesis - Lets Hear It.

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Digit

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Heyas,

I don't frequent this forum often, but I am now all ears. I would like to hear from all those who believe Genesis is a figurative/poetic/story/mythical telling of Creation, and what in Genesis makes you believe that.?

So, one more time, what (in Genesis) leads you to believe that it is a figurative story?

All the best,
Digit

Edit: I should have said this initially, but if you can quote scripture along with what you are referring to, that would also be of immense help, and I would appreciate it. Thanks kindly in advance for any such efforts. :)
 

notto

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When the actual creation conflicts with my interpretation of scripture, it is my interpretation of scripture that is wrong.

The evidence in the creation itself (which is the direct work of God) conflicts with a young earth/special creation interpretation of scripture.

God made it. I believe it. That settles it.
 
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Digit

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When the actual creation conflicts with my interpretation of scripture, it is my interpretation of scripture that is wrong.

The evidence in the creation itself (which is the direct work of God) conflicts with a young earth/special creation interpretation of scripture.

God made it. I believe it. That settles it.
Ok, so in your case evidence came about that conflicted with the account of Creation, and as such the only option left for you was to interpret it as a figurative recount.

In answer to my question there was nothing specific actually IN Genesis that lead you to believe it was figurative.

I'm interested in more replies please. :)

Digit
 
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Digit

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For the time being I'll let someone else take this. There are other TEs here far better at this particular part of the debate than I am. If this thread hasn't gotten a response in a day, I'll give it a shot myself.
Btw, I'm not really looking for a debate, as I said, I am all ears, I simply want to hear what in Genesis tells you it's figurative. :)

Cheers!
Digit
 
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Dannager

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Btw, I'm not really looking for a debate, as I said, I am all ears, I simply want to hear what in Genesis tells you it's figurative. :)

Cheers!
Digit
I understand. I'm sorry that I was unclear - when I said "this part of debate" I was simply referring to this being one of the areas of contention.
 
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Digit

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I understand. I'm sorry that I was unclear - when I said "this part of debate" I was simply referring to this being one of the areas of contention.
That's fine, you can say you believe it's figurative because a purple mouse told you so, I won't say a word. :p

Digit
 
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theIdi0t

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Heyas,

I don't frequent this forum often, but I am now all ears. I would like to hear from all those who believe Genesis is a figurative/poetic/story/mythical telling of Creation, and what in Genesis makes you believe that.?

So, one more time, what (in Genesis) leads you to believe that it is a figurative story?

All the best,
Digit

Let's say we look at the Gospel, and read of Jesus' resurrection. When we read the account it's quite apparent that the writers are writing of an actual occurrence. The writers of the gospel continually place Jesus in historical settings, the dialog the manner of speech of Christ, clearly shows a person who actually existed, that is apparent to believers and non-believers alike.

Some non-believers even go on to say that the writers really did think Jesus resurrected, rather than assume that they made it up, they just chalk it up as delusion, because the Gospel is so persuasively written as a literal account.

Even a child can see the difference between how the gospel is written, and how Genesis creation is written, can you?

Let's look at Genesis. We have the Tree of Knowledge, a talking snake, a man named Adam, which means Mankind, a Woman created by God removing the rib from the man etc..

We have Moses who does not write that he was there, or even that God told him this is how things were created, he just writes the story, and versions of the story have been around in other religions, a long time before Moses penned his version in Genesis.

Let's explore what an allegorical Genesis might mean:

God is God, and he intended for his creation to eat the tree of life, it was not Adams will, but the will of the creator that created Adams will.

It was God's plan for Adam to not continually live in the Garden of Eden.

I believe that when God created man, a pre-Fall man did not exist, and that we were created as fallen-men, and Moses was concerned with this state, and where it comes from, and what it means, and where do we ultimately want to return.

I believe that innate in all of us is a desire to return to a Garden of Eden like state, I believe this state is what Christ speaks of when he talks of the Kingdom of God, and how it is within us and among us. And what Solomon refers to, when he speaks of the eternity hidden within us, as well.

Moses described Adam and Eve as if they were children, who grew up, and wanted to leave their play pen, who wanted to leave their parents comfort, and build comfort on their own, to leave the roof their parents provided, to toil and build a roof themselves.

He describes them as Jesus describes the prodigal son, who demanded his fathers inheritance, so he can venture out own his own. He said he does not need his father, the same as Adam and Eve said, when they ate the fruit, that the serpent told them would make them as God, because if we are as God, then we do not need God.

Mankind wanders around aimlessly, and squanders his inheritance on a life of dissipation, only to realize his life is meaningless without his Father, and the Father awaits the son's return Home, so that he can greet him with Joy.

I believe Moses is writing a figurative story, of Man's desire to be independent, free of God, only for him self, and his will, until he realizes that life is meaningless without God.

The creation story, is there to show man's place in the universe, that God has given man his inheritance, by giving him dominance in this kingdom, and man has squandered his inheritance throughout time, and when it is all spent, that is when we find man of his knees, seeking to return to the Father's house.

To me, the literalist is one, who ignores, Moses' meaning of Genesis, of what he writes of the human condition. They would rather see Adam as Adam, and not as what his name implies (mankind), they would rather see a tree by chance named the tree of knowledge of God and evil, rather than explore what such a symbolic name means.

They would rather see a God who needed to pull out Adam's rib to create Eve, rather than see Moses' intent to say that man and women are connected.

They would rather seek out physical evidence of the Flood, and their heart flutters every time they hear of some phony scientist claim that he has found Noah's ark, I seek none of those things.

My heart flutters when I hear of God's offering after the Flood, and when I read of Abraham's plea to save the innocent, what beauty in such passages, far greater than a creationist museum, and the wood that built Noah's ark.

Literalism implies that these latter pursuits are what God desires, allegory tells me that he desires more, and the treasure is hidden in the words, not on the surface.

I find the literalist take on Genesis, to be the one void of meaning, and if I have to sacrifice the meaning for such a take, then I'll tell you, you can have your wood, and I'll keep my treasure.
 
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shernren

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One good question deserves another. When you can tell me what in Joshua 10:12-13 makes it figurative, then I will tell you what in Genesis 1 makes it figurative.

You might want to ask Assyrian. He has a more proactive stance on this one.
 
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Jadis40

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Genesis 1-11 doesn't need to be a literal record of history to tell me that we all have a Heavenly Father who is waiting for us to come back into a relationship with Him. This love was so great that God was willing to take the initiative by sending His own son Jesus Christ to earth to be born, live, and die on a cross so that each of us could renew our relationship with our Heavenly Father.

To me, this, and not a 6,000 year old earth based on a particular interpretation of Genesis 1-11, is the reality.

I think we all have a sinful nature just because we are human. I don't think sin entered the world simply because "Adam" and "Eve" ate a piece of fruit off of a literal tree.
 
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Digit

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One good question deserves another. When you can tell me what in Joshua 10:12-13 makes it figurative, then I will tell you what in Genesis 1 makes it figurative.

You might want to ask Assyrian. He has a more proactive stance on this one.
To be honest I'm not here to barter, if you don't want to answer the question then don't.

Digit
 
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Mallon

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Genesis likely wasn't meant literally because:

- The ANE people did not equate fact with history, as we do today.
- God does not equate fact with history, as best exemplified by Jesus' parables.
- God's own creation contradicts a literal interpretation of Genesis.
- Genesis follows a poetic rubric of verse-stanza-verse-stanza.
- Literal snakes don't talk.
- 2 creation stories
- etc., etc., etc.
 
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Digit

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Genesis 1-11 doesn't need to be a literal record of history to tell me that we all have a Heavenly Father who is waiting for us to come back into a relationship with Him. This love was so great that God was willing to take the initiative by sending His own son Jesus Christ to earth to be born, live, and die on a cross so that each of us could renew our relationship with our Heavenly Father.

To me, this, and not a 6,000 year old earth based on a particular interpretation of Genesis 1-11, is the reality.

I think we all have a sinful nature just because we are human. I don't think sin entered the world simply because "Adam" and "Eve" ate a piece of fruit off of a literal tree.
Heya, thank you for your reply. Can you tell me what exactly in Genesis leads you to believe it is figurative? Or why you chose a figurative view of it, or is quite simply about sin entering the world through an apple that makes you doubt it's literal meaning?

Thanks,
Digit
 
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Digit

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Genesis likely wasn't meant literally because:

- The ANE people did not equate fact with history, as we do today.
- God does not equate fact with history, as best exemplified by Jesus' parables.
- God's own creation contradicts a literal interpretation of Genesis.
- Genesis follows a poetic rubric of verse-stanza-verse-stanza.
- Literal snakes don't talk.
- 2 creation stories
- etc., etc., etc.
Hi Mallon,

Could you elaborate on points 3 (is 3 mainly about evolution? if so don't worry) and 6, preferably with scripture to illustrate your reason as I am not familiar with two accounts.

Thanks for your reply. :)

Digit
 
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crawfish

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Genesis was written, in its original language, in poetic verse. There are two versions of the creation story not internally consistent with each other. While neither of those prove anything, they do make us look a little more closely at what is actually being said.

Add to that the historical evidence we have - a very old universe, evolution, archaeological history, knowledge we have gained of other ancient cultures - it becomes very obvious that the account CANNOT be literally true. If you believe in a God that speaks through his creation as well as the bible, then you have to either reject the bible outright or study it to see if there is an alternative purpose. I choose the latter.

No TE doubts the theological points being made in Genesis. God
created the heavens and the earth. Man is fallen. Etc. None of those things changes with a non-literal reading.
 
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Jadis40

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Heya, thank you for your reply. Can you tell me what exactly in Genesis leads you to believe it is figurative? Or why you chose a figurative view of it, or is quite simply about sin entering the world through an apple that makes you doubt it's literal meaning?

Thanks,
Digit

A lot of people here have posted something similar to this statement, in that the civilizations of Mesopotamia existed long before Moses started writing down a single word of what would make up the first five books of the Bible. All of these cultures had their own mythologies with a pantheon of Gods who were all responsible for one aspect of the world (sun, moon, earth, water, lightning, fertility and so on.) The Bible was among the first to spell out that there is only one God. The Egyptians, for a limited period of time, did as well, but they fell back into polytheism.

I think the main purpose of Moses writing what he did was to show that God is one, and that He alone, and not a group of gods was responsible for the creation of the physical world. It helps to keep in mind that Moses wrote Genesis-Deuteronomy after leaving Egypt, where the Hebrews were well aware of the polytheistic faith surrounding them.

Yet, at the same time, Moses was limited by Hebrew cosmology, which thought of the earth as being flat, with a solid firmament over the earth, with storehouses for the rain, snow and hail.

There's a picture of this on the following website:

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/ThreeTieredUniverse.htm

The Hebrews thought that the stars were connected to the dome of heaven, and that the sun and moon were contained within this same dome. Modern-day science has established that the earth is 146 million miles from the sun at perihelion and 152 miles at aphelion. So, I think Moses was writing a record giving God alone the credit for the creation of the world. Moses didn't need to know that all of this took place 13+ billion years ago, and that the 6 days don't need to be 6 literal days.

So, do I think Moses had the basics right? Yes, but I think he was mistaken by writing that the sun was created on the 4th day. The solar system needs a center of gravity, and that center of gravity is the sun. So, the sun came first, then the planets. Space, as we think of space, containing all the other stars and galaxies were in their early formation state billions of years ago as well.

I found this a while back, it's referred to as "Methuselah" - the oldest known planet (a few billion years younger than the universe itself):

http://www.extrasolar.net/planettour.asp?PlanetID=30
 
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crawfish

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So, do I think Moses had the basics right? Yes, but I think he was mistaken by writing that the sun was created on the 4th day. The solar system needs a center of gravity, and that center of gravity is the sun. So, the sun came first, then the planets.


He was certainly mistaken if he meant it that way. If you believe that the days of creation are there to deny the pantheon of Babylonian gods, with which it coincides pretty closely, then it makes perfect sense.
 
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Mallon

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Hi Mallon,

Could you elaborate on points 3 (is 3 mainly about evolution? if so don't worry) and 6, preferably with scripture to illustrate your reason as I am not familiar with two accounts.

Thanks for your reply. :)

Digit
Sure.

Point 3 is pretty obvious. Disparate fields of science all reach the same conclusion independently (read: multiple attestation): That a literal interpretation of Genesis is not consistent with the facts we see in God's creation. This includes the fields of biology, geology, palaeontology, astronomy, etc.

Point 6 refers to the two creation accounts given in Genesis 1-2:2 and 2:4 onward. Read 'em, and pay particular attention to the order in which God creates everything. For added fun, ask yourself just what the heck the Tree of Life was for!
 
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Ben12

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There are a lot of things in Genesis that are not literal; that does not rule out that Genesis is literal; but I will not limit God in the creation of man to this six thousand years.

When some one is naked it is so much more then walking around with no cloths on.

Pro. 29: 18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. "Naked" (KJV) 6544 para` (paw-rah'); a primitive root; to loosen; by implication, to expose, dismiss; figuratively, absolve, begin:

I believe that was the first religious act happened in Genesis that is Adam’s the fig leaf; In other words man covered His nakedness with something other then God’ Glory.

Science has its points , and these facts would not be there if God did not put them there. There is no doubt in my mind that the fall probably happened 6,000 years ago; but who knows how long Adam and later Eve walked in the Garden before the fall. Was there life outside the garden; was the garden literal or was it spiritual?

Adam and Eve were covered with God’s glory and they lost this spiritual covering and were spiritually naked.

Another point is Adam was created in God's Image (God is a spirit) you see this in Gen.1: 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

But in Gen 2 you see a change where Adam is recreated as a : 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 
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