• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

Genesis chapter one

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by JohnR7, Nov 22, 2002.

  1. Anthony

    Anthony Generic Christian

    +42
    Christian
     

    I understand your speculation, but the Bible states it clearly, we can alway "maybe" our way into any number of theories.

    Try a Hebrew Bible
    http://www.levsoftware.com/verses.htm

    Evening -
    http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=06153&version=kjv

    Morning  -
    http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=01242&version=kjv

     
     
  2. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    I do not have my figures right here, right now. But if you use the spindown rate given by NASA and go back it works out to something like 4.23 billion years for the beginning of the first day.

    That does not mean the earth did not exist before then, just that there was nothing but darkness.

    No one else seems to want to do that math on this one, even though it is very simple. A 6th grader could figure this one out.

    Genesis 1:2-3
        And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    For me this means there was a beginning and a increase. Some say it's speculation and that is fine, but it's as good of an explaination as any other that is available right now.
     
  3. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Thanks for the links, that is a better dictionary for the Hebrew than what I have been using.
     
  4. Matthew

    Matthew Member

    154
    +0
    You later admit that you believe that there were 'six distinct periods of time'. In other words, these days have to be taken as longer periods of time. I don't think that I have to remind you that if we take the standard time for human civilization (~30,000yrs) and add 6 24-hr days we will not get 4.5 billion years.

    As for my evidence it is a fact that yom has five meanings in Hebrew: i. a period of light in a day/night cycle; ii. a period of 24 hours; iii. a general or vague concept of time; iv. a specific point of time; and v. a period of a year. We know which one it is by the words surrounding it and the number (plural or singular) of the word. In Genesis 1, the word is singular, has numbers around it, and the words "morning" and "evening". Further, these are linked in a series, or a list. It just so happens that in Hebrew, the presence of numbers or the words "morning" or "evening" show that the word yom is referring to a period of 24-hours.

    I was not discussing whether science compliments the Bible. As for the order of events, evolution and the Bible have different orders. The Bible places flowering plants (day 3) before any animals(day 5) as one example.

    As I have mentioned, boqer and ereb and the words for morning and evening, not beginning and ending.

    Your division of 4.5 billion years into 6 periods has no basis in the Biblical text or in science itself. Your theory sounds similiar to that of Gerald Schroeder's. If that is so, that would explain your difficulty with Hebrew and science.
     
  5. Anthony

    Anthony Generic Christian

    +42
    Christian
    Moses was writing about a subject which could have filled volumes. He wrote about it restricted by the written language and vocabulary of the day. Limited vocabulary mean limted depth and color for the generations to come.

    It like describing a rainbow with only a 4 color vocabulary. Each color is now looked upon to take on more weight and meaning. Same with the vocabulary of Moses, did he have all the words he needed? Did he have 4 colors or 26,000 colors to write with? He only had the words and concepts of his day.

     
     
  6. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Yes, in 32 verses he tells about the creation of the world. All the books in the world could tell us about how God created the world and we would still only be beginning to understand.
     
  7. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    You are talking about two totally different things.

    Creation is one thing, and the genologys or generations is another. There is no reason to believe that Adam was not formed around 6000 years ago. I can go into more detail on this a little bit later on this evening of you want. Thanks, JohnR7

    This link may help, you will see that the generations take up the last 6 seconds of the time table.

    http://seaborg.nmu.edu/earth/timelines.html
     
  8. Matthew

    Matthew Member

    154
    +0
    True, but he did have about 10 possible ways tell us the amount of time involved. (indefinite, an instant, a long period, 24-hour days...) His vocabulary was not that limited!

    But if I were to describe the rainbow using (reg, green, blue, white) as my four colors I would not say that the rainbow was all red and green!
     
  9. aaron

    aaron Prayer Warrior

    +9
    Non-Denom
    Private
    There was no need. They wrote about what we need to know not what we want to. It would be cool to know in more depth of the creation of earth or other things but we do not need to. It is not necessary.
     
  10. Matthew

    Matthew Member

    154
    +0
    Actually, I was pointing out that you must believe that the days are longer than 24-hours. Further, there is no textual support for a difference between creation and the history of man (4.5 billion years and 6 seconds).

    And you havn't responded to my post. Do you have an answers for my textual evidence for 24-hour days or the order of creation? And one must not forget these scriptures:

    Exodus 20:11 (in six days, God made the universe and rested on the seventh day, therefore we are to rest on the seventh day)

    Exodus 31:17 (in six days God made the universe)

    Or this scripture: Mark 10:16(from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female) quoting Gen 1:27
     
  11. aaron

    aaron Prayer Warrior

    +9
    Non-Denom
    Private
    John R7 if what you are saying is true about the length of the days now and then, then why are the days not longer than 24hrs. now. The days should constantly be getting longer.
     
  12. kaotic

    kaotic Learn physics

    +3
    Agnostic
    US-Democrat
    That doesn't make any sence. The universe should have been made on the first day DUH come on god I know you are smarter than that...
     
  13. Anthony

    Anthony Generic Christian

    +42
    Christian
    You have seen a rainbow, and have probably seen them many times, first hand. So you would be able to write about it first hand. But Moses wasn't at the "creation" so he had to write about something which he knew nothing about, and had no first hand knowledge. He simply put into writing what was spoken to him, using a writing style and vocabulary which is a fraction of what we have today.
     
  14. MatthewDiscipleofGod

    MatthewDiscipleofGod Senior Veteran

    +261
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    seesaw that refers to the 6 days he took to create EVERYTHING. Not JUST the universe. I could say duh seesaw you should have figured that out but I don't think that's mature discussion so lets keep this mature.
     
  15. aaron

    aaron Prayer Warrior

    +9
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Anthony I just want to point out one mistake that you made "what was inspired to him by God."
     
  16. MatthewDiscipleofGod

    MatthewDiscipleofGod Senior Veteran

    +261
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Anthony don't know if I understand your point but I'll post my thoughts.

    He simply put into writing what was spoken to him. Yup if Moses was the one to actually write it God told him he took 6 literal days so that's what he wrote. That's what Yom, in it's context, means. Six, 24 hour days.
     
  17. kaotic

    kaotic Learn physics

    +3
    Agnostic
    US-Democrat
    LOL that doesn't change the fact that you can't create the earth and adam and eve with out creating the universe on the first day. The bible imo needs to be worked on so it can make sence.
     
  18. MatthewDiscipleofGod

    MatthewDiscipleofGod Senior Veteran

    +261
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Oh by the way I was able to meet Kent Hovind in person and have a picture with him that I hope turns out well. Make sure to watch for it! Sorry know it's kinda off topic but not really since he himself talks about the meaning of Yom in the creation account. ;)
     
  19. MatthewDiscipleofGod

    MatthewDiscipleofGod Senior Veteran

    +261
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    seesaw, if your talking about space and matter, yes he created that obviously first since you can't have matter if you don't have space.
     
  20. lucaspa

    lucaspa Legend

    +373
    Methodist
    Private
    Sorry, John. I have had to research this question extensively. The word here is not "yom" but "beyom".  This does indicate a very short time, within the span of a 24 hour day down to an instant.  For instance, in Gen 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it; for in the day (beyom) that you eat thereof you shall surely die."

    In all the other instances of "beyom", it means a period of a day or less.  It is inconsistent to try to make "beyom" mean an entire time period in Genesis 2:4.
     
Loading...