Genesis 3v19 Man sentenced to perish

[TrevorL]

Genesis 3v19 Man sentenced to perish

The sentence upon Adam for disobedience was

Genesis 3:19 (KJV): "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

God does not say dust is thy body and immortal is thy soul, and unto dust shall your body go, but your immortal soul, the real you, your consciousness, will go to heaven or hell. God says "dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return". Adam and Eve were excluded from the garden so that they would not eat the tree of life and live for ever Genesis 3:22-24.

Immortal soul or immaterial spirit teaching is similar to the teaching of the serpent in a modern dress. These theories came from Greek philosophy, not from the Bible which teaches mortality and conditional resurrection to everlasting life.

The two alternatives taught in the Bible are perishing or everlasting life:

John 3:14-16 (KJV): "14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[RVincent]

I agree that a few concepts developed from Greek mythology, such as the modern concept of "hell" and people living forever in fire. Another example: many people think that "mortal" and "immortal" refers to "flesh" or "non-flesh" people. Not true (see below).

But I am uncomfortable with the term "immaterial" when referring to "spirit beings". It is also a myth. Even the angels have physical (not flesh) bodies. In Gen. 18 three men, Elohim and two angels, sat down and ate food. The children ate "angels food" (Psa 78:25).

But neither the ruach nor the nephesh is mentioned in Gen. 3:19.

(Eccl 12:7a) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:

(Eccl 12:7b)and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.​

The Usage of Ruach, Spirit.

The Use of Nephesh in the Old Testament.

(1 Cor 15:44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.​

Count:

1 natural body + 1 spiritual body = 2 bodies.​

This speaks of bodies, not "ghosts". One is flesh, one isn't.

(1 Cor 15:54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

(2 Cor 5:8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

(Mat 22:32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.​

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are very much alive and well. They have put on their incorruptible (aphtharsia = never grows old, or gets sick) bodies and have immortal (athanasia = deathlessness) souls. Not everybody who puts on the new body will be immortal.

 

[TrevorL]

Genesis 3v19 Man sentenced to perish

Howdy RVincent,
Greetings. RVincent wrote:

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are very much alive and well. They have put on their incorruptible (aphtharsia = never grows old, or gets sick) bodies and have immortal (athanasia = deathlessness) souls. Not everybody who puts on the new body will be immortal.

Are you saying that these fathers have already been resurrected? I believe they will be resurrected when Christ returns.

My understanding of this is Jesus was simply stating that God does not say that he was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, in the sense of they are dead and buried and we can forget about them now. Rather, God has a purpose with these fathers, and that purpose involves these men themselves necessitating the resurrection. He says "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" that is, they are dear to Him, Abraham was the friend of God, and He will raise them from the dead. Jesus possibly used the Sadducees' own expression, or at least summarises their own teaching "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living", and by this proves the resurrection.

Paul could well be alluding to Christ's words in Matthew 22:32:

Romans 4:17 (KJV):: "(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."
Hebrews 11:16 (KJV): "But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

What a beautiful figure of speech, when Paul uses the word "ashamed". Rather God takes great delight in these faithful who He will raise from the dead. This figure is also used of Christ's attitude towards his spiritual brethren / children in Hebrews 2:11, a figure that is humbling to us, but also very encouraging if we put our trust in him, who will raise the dead, and grant a place in his kingdom soon to be established upon the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[RVincent]

Are you saying that these fathers have already been resurrected?

Yes, but I respect differring opinons.

 

[plmarquette]

Yes, but I respect differring opinons.

we are a spiritual being ....
who for a time lives in a flesh suit [ humus-dirt ]
that has a soul comprised of mind , will , & emotions

in the first chapter of Genesis God created man the spirit ;
in the second chapter of Genesis God creates his dirt suit ;

when we die , our spirit proceeds our flesh [ glorified body ] to heaven ;
at the end of the world , before new heaven and earth ; our spirits will be reunited with our bodies , judged , and then ascend to heaven or descend into the pit ... each according to our hearts , service , and life here ..

 

[TrevorL]

Genesis 3v19 Man sentenced to perish

Howdy RVincent,

Greetings again. RVincent wrote:

"Yes, but I respect differring opinons."

Yes I recognise that for every verse there may be three or more opinions. I am interested in others views on a verse etc, and realise that many other aspects contribute to one's perspective on a particular verse. I feel that the Word is like the old-fashioned wood fire in a lounge room, it warms and comforts and gives light. The Word gradually changes our thoughts and opinions. It is up to you if you would like to share your view, but an obvious question is, was Abraham already resurrected when God said to Moses that He was Abraham's God at the burning bush?

Hebrews 11:13,39-40 (KJV): "13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Lee Fey]

I find it interesting that you are missing a vital point. From dust you have come, to dust you shall return. What came from the dust of the Earth? Their bodies. Their spirits, their life, their essense, came from God, when he breathed into them. So, what came from dust, their bodies, will return to dust, and what came from God, their spirits, and since God is immortal, than these are immortal as well.

And many images of what Hell will be like may come from Greek mythology, but I am very assured that most of it comes from Revelation as well, and the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. I have read with my own eyes images of Hell in Revelation, and they are indeed filled with fire and brimstone.

 

[Starr]

Fire and brimstone are qualities of the LAKE OF FIRE.

The Lake is a symbol of Water while Fire is Gods Eternal Word.

Water and Fire by the SAME WORD.

Gods word is a Fire, Our God is a consuming Fire, His Breath is as a Stream of brimstone.

God Himself is the detroyer of Death (Body of death) and Hell (which is seen as both naked and a House)

Death and Hell are cast in to the Lake of Fire in Revelation but into God in the Old testament BOTH ARE TRUE. Who is the Lake of Fire if both are true See? Everlasting burnings as the Isrealites perceived it (dwelling with God).

But the Second death has no power over overcomers as the Furnance the three were cast into in Daniel had no power over the three in the fire. They had NO HURT. Exactly what Jesus said, "will NOT HURT"

No rest day or night was a curse under the law, sorrow of mind, torment, fear, no assurance for thy life.

In Christ howver, theres rest for our souls, Joy of the Lord, a sound mind, perfect love casts out fear and assurance of salvation.

The variances between the law (Judgement) and In Christ show two opposites.

When we walk through the fire He is there (The lamb and His holy angels are THERE) tormented FROM HIS PRESENSE NOT away from His presense. He who FEARS is not made perfect in love. FEAR HATH TO DO WITH TORMENT.

Legion saw the same thing percieving Christ who came to torment Him before the appointed time (we are many was His Name) because Many see this of the Lord and its a wrong perception. Jesus Clothes the naked man dwelling among the tombs cutting himself day and night (seen again in pictures of lake of fire and the law) and Christ frees Him from this perception and he now knows Christ as His freind.

Gods fire is redemptive His fire refines and purifies and nothing that maketh a lie or defileth enters into the City.

The Spiritual qualities of the Lake of fire are the exact Spiritual qualities of God himself. Fire Brimstone and Everlasting.

The Rich man in hell is there because of His tongue (this is what needed to be cooled off (not his body) why? Because the tongue is a fire itself and as death is this body so also is the Tongue set on fire by this Hell within. Thats why we are told to watch our tongues. The Tongue is the key word in the picture of the Rich man.


God bless

In Him

Starr

 

[@@Paul@@]

Are you saying that these fathers have already been resurrected?

Yes, but I respect differring opinons.

I'm not saying i agree, or disagree; I simply don't know.

Joh 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Now, at least until Christ said this the fathers were dead.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.​

And David is still dead and buried as of 30ad.

Mat 27:52-53 KJV And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, (53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.​

I guess the question is, WHO are these which slept (Abraham, Isaac, etc..) and where did they go?