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Genesis 3:24

Discussion in 'Creationism' started by MrsFoundit, Dec 29, 2019.

  1. MrsFoundit

    MrsFoundit Well-Known Member

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    "After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

    Is this a reason to believe that scientific research cannot access accurate information about the creation process (as depicted in Genesis) ?

    Edited for clarity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  2. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. Science has some pretty good theories.
     
  3. MrsFoundit

    MrsFoundit Well-Known Member

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    Not ones that involve a divine supreme being who creates everything.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  4. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    One of our most important scientist ever to live Sir Issac Newton was able to unravel a few mysteries of God's creation while acknowledging that God was the Creator.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  5. MrsFoundit

    MrsFoundit Well-Known Member

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    A good point. I have edited the OP in an attempt to clarify my question. I did not mean that it could be impossible for scientists or science to be correct about anything at all, I realise it did look like that. My oops.
     
  6. Bob Carabbio

    Bob Carabbio Old guy -

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    "Science" has no use for a "Divine Supreme Being" who would be the "Cause" of all we see. Science deals with trying to Analyze / create THEORIES (sometime true, sometimes not) about things.

    A "Divine Supreme Being", however is a POSITIVE ANSWER to the "Origins issue", and "Science" has nothing to contribute to that.
     
  7. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

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    Science deals with "how".
     
  8. MrsFoundit

    MrsFoundit Well-Known Member

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    If "how" involved a being who is beyond unaided human comprehension, using methods too elaborate and fast to be traced by humankind, and then people were supernaturally barred from accessing the time and place of the origins events, science would not be able to correctly establish "how".
     
  9. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

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    And if not "supernaturally barred"?
     
  10. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This verse is purely symbolic then and now. The tree of knowledge as you know is different than the tree of life. God reveals His creation slowly as we are able to understand . The tree of life is only for those who's names are "written" in the "book of life" those that have not been "blotted" out because they have endured till the end.
    May science live on!
     
  11. MrsFoundit

    MrsFoundit Well-Known Member

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    Does "symbolic" mean humans were never really excluded from Eden?
     
  12. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Eden with cherubim and flaming swords is symbolic. This is a symbol of being "cut off"from God. Yes humans were cut off from God until Jesus Christ of Nazareth restored the relationship.
     
  13. MrsFoundit

    MrsFoundit Well-Known Member

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    I see no need for "symbolic" here, if a gate is closed it is blocking the way, it is not symbolic of blocking the way.
     
  14. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They were cut off from God this is not symbolic, I agree. It is the flaming sword and cherubim that are symbolic. This verse is both literal and figurative for literary purposes. Man suffered the real consequence , separation, through sin.
     
  15. BroRoyVa79

    BroRoyVa79 Member

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    I don't see a reason for saying that the flaming sword and cherubim were symbolic either. They weren't allowed back in because they lost access to the Tree of Life which would have granted them immortality in their fallen state. Thus, they would have to be treated as the Fallen Angels who fell in their immortal state. Given the overall message of the Bible, this is evidently very real.

    As far as Genesis 3:24 obstructing current man's ability to look back with the scientific method to see if the Genesis account actually happened, I don't think that's the case. According to Revelation, the Tree of Life is in heaven, not this realm. (Revelation 2:7) Waiting to be brought back to Earth along with New Jerusalem. (Revelation 21-22). This would indicate that the Garden of Eden of Genesis is no longer a location on Earth. Also, taking into account the flood, the Garden was destroyed along with the rest of the pre-flood geography. Either that, or it is the Paradise spoken about in Revelation 2:7 where the Tree of Life resides in heaven, not this realm.

    I'd argue that the reason scientific research cannot access accurate information about the creation process is that science does not work that way. While I appreciate the things science have brought us, it is not the end all be all of finding truth and answers. It is but one process. Its elevation to the status it has today was done so by individuals who did not believe in God or the testimony of the Bible. However, I have found there are plenty of believers who utilize science to discover that the Bible is accurate in what it says about creation.
     
  16. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    Apart from the cherubim guarding the garden after the fall when God outlines certain fundamental changes such as death, thorns, pain in childbirth; but then a few hundred years later the entire world was wiped away with the global flood and many laws governing the world changed. We have no access to the world that was made 'very good' the garden was washed away along with everything else.

    Before the flood, the earth had a different atmosphere as it was surrounded by a thick vapour canopy. “waters above the firmament” Things grew for longer (making gigantic animals possible) and lived longer. 900 years seems to be the average lifespan for Adam's descendants before the flood in Genesis 5.
    The canopy filtered harmful radiation from space and the earth was like a greenhouse with mild temperatures and no rainfall as God watered the earth from the ground. During the flood the fountains of the deep broke. Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
    These fountains were volcanoes, and volcanic activity causes electricity. The widespread electric activity across the earth's crust and the new harmful space radiation is what gives rise to false results given to the earth age.
     
  17. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Science can tell us a lot. There are people with PhD's in Botnay at the universities in Jerusalem that know quite a bit about the domestication of wild plants in the Middle East that we read about in our Bible. Figs, olives, grapes and so on. Every now and then they write a book but most of the information they have is published in their peer reviewed magazines. Clearly Eden was a very special bio diverse eco system. There were a lot of new beginning here that we can read about in our Bible. Not the least was the relationship God wanted to have with Adam.
     
  18. MrsFoundit

    MrsFoundit Well-Known Member

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    I agree this is really important.
     
  19. Paul James

    Paul James Active Member

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    True science, as opposed to science fantasy, is established by observation, examination, testing, and replication. Any one or even all four would establish something as being scientific. We can observe events and objects in the present and determine their characteristics. There are some we can examine closely, such as bacteria under a microscope, or from afar such as a supernova through a telescope. We can test the strength of an airplane wing through stress testing to see when the metal starts to break. And we can replicate the fertilization of an egg to produce a embryo of an animal or human in a laboratory. These are all examples of science.
    We can use forensic science to find out through the clues left behind and DNA analysis how a crime was committed, and with luck, find out who did it. This is called historical science where present evidence is used to determine past event.

    But origin cannot be a true science, because it cannot be observed, examined, tested or replicated. All we can do, outside of the Bible, make guesses about how things could have happened in the distant past. Some have tried to use fossil records to prove certain theories about origin, but that same evidence can be used to tell a quite different story.

    But then we have a reliable historical record of the origin of the world, and it is just as valid as any other history - The Bible.
     
  20. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

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    Then why aren't they still there? Why can't we see them?
     
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