Genesis 1: Exposition and Doctrine of Creation

[Calminian]

Well as far as salvation, it's a 'bara' event, that's the connection to the Creation. The word of God is often compared to seed, some wither and die and some bear fruit. Understanding Genesis isn't that hard, you either believe it or you don't. I see nothing in the sciences, especially the life sciences that is a problem for the Genesis account of creation. Of course you will understand God as Creator, you know that whether you repent or not (Rom. 1:18-20)

Salvation is a new creation, the New Testament couldn't be any clearer on that point. Do note that the Scriptures not only begin with creation, they end with it. Creation isn't just an event in the distant past, it's a promise to whosoever will believe, and a promise of a new creation at the end of the age. Yes, creation is essential doctrine and inextricably linked to salvation.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Okay, so would you say that since salvation is a creation event, that one cannot be a christian who believes in evolution? I was just hoping for a real simple answer.

 

[rockytopva]

This is the timetable that I would put together... I have 7,360 years, which seems to me like a 360 year extension of grace.

I believe that the universe is about 15 billions years old and is the result and in response to Lucifer's rebellion.

If... E = mc2 ... Then m (matter) = E/c2 (energy)

Therefore, for the big boom to have occurred the matter had to have been there before the light and energy (E/c2), as the scripture says...

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. - Genesis 1:2

I would imagine, with these words... 'Let there be light (Genesis 1:3)', that the earth (the mass) turned into energy and light (E/c2) and expanded out from a point of origin, turning into what solar systems the Father willed it to. So the plasma (E/c2) is actually mass that has changed state.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:4,5

I believe that 15 billion years took place between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:4. God divided the light and the darkness by putting the earth in orbit around the sun thus creating the first day of the Earth's creation. But... The universe was created 15 billion years (give or take a few billion years) before that.


***So... The 7000 year theory, in my mind, begins after Genesis 1:3***


4300 - 2644 BC - Adam to the great flood: About 1,650 years
2644 - 1730 BC - The Patriarchs - From Noah to Joseph: About 1,000 years
1730 -1450 BC - From Joseph to Moses: So Joesphs bones were in Egypt about 300 years
1450 - 33 AD - The time of the Laws of Moses was about 1500 years.
33 - 66 AD Ephesus – Apostolic – 33 years, not long! “All they which are in Asia be turned away from me…” – II Timothy 1:15
66 - 312 AD - Smyrna – Martyrs – Persecutions ten days… Foxes Book of Martyrs describes ten Roman persecutions. Ended with Constantine
312 - 800 AD - Pergamos – Orthodox – A pyrgos is a fortified structure – Needed for the dark ages.
800-1450 AD Thyatira – Catholic – The Spirit of Jezebel is to persecute, control, and to dominate. Began with Charlemange
1450-1700 AD Sardis – Protestant – A sardius is a gem, elegant yet hard and rigid. Doctrine in the head, little in the heart.
1700-1940 AD Philadelphia – Methodist – To obtain sanctification was to do so with love. Anabaptists -Weslayan -Moravian
1940 - 2060 AD Laodicea – Charismatic – Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?
2060 - 3060 AD - The Millennial reign



The time of the horseman runs with the last couple of church ages...

1. White - Democracy - Came about along with the Philadelphian church
2. Red - Communism - Note the red flag, hammer and sickle.
3. Black - Islam - Note the desire to disrupt the global economy.
4. Pale - Anti-Christ - A brief 3.5 year reign.

Isaac Newton picked the 2060 AD end date and I will go along with him with the following disclaimer...

“And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half.” –Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.” – Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However… Isaac Newton notes…

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton

Our God is an eternal being. 15 billion years between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:5 is no big deal for him. I believe that God gave Lucifer free run of this known universe... But Lucifer's time is growing short. I think also, in 15 billion years, many of the fallen angels have lost track and forgotten their original state. The hearts are hopelessly hardened and quite evil!

If mankind was older than 7,000 years he would have long ago became an instinct species.

 

[SkyWriting]

Okay, so would you say that since salvation is a creation event, that one cannot be a christian who believes in evolution? I was just hoping for a real simple answer.

What part of "Evolution" can be tested has value.
Science can only make predictions about
the outcome of future events.
the outcome of future events.
the outcome of future events.

People argue that point, but are unable to document any formal objection. We can't re-test the origins of life so it is not even within the scope of science as a problem to solve.

The simple answer is that the theory of evolution is not adequate for examining the origins of life.

 

[SkyWriting]

Our God is an eternal being. 15 billion years between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:5 is no big deal for him. I believe that God gave Lucifer free run of this known universe... But Lucifer's time is growing short. I think also, in 15 billion years, many of the fallen angels have lost track and forgotten their original state. The hearts are hopelessly hardened and quite evil! If mankind was older than 7,000 years he would have long ago became an instinct species.

I don't know if time actually passed as we imagine it did. But your conclusions seem accurate.

 

[Calminian]

Our God is an eternal being. 15 billion years between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:5 is no big deal for him.

Neither would God creating the heavens and earth and all that is in them in six days be anything to Him. The issue is not what's possible for God, but what God has revealed. He's revealed that from the beginning of creation, he made man (not 15 billion years from creation).

I believe that God gave Lucifer free run of this known universe... But Lucifer's time is growing short. I think also, in 15 billion years, many of the fallen angels have lost track and forgotten their original state. The hearts are hopelessly hardened and quite evil!

Again, it's not whether God could have done this, but what He has revealed. According to the Bible, Satan (not Lucifer, as the proper noun Lucifer is a misnomer) fell in Eden the Garden of God (Ezek. 28), not 15 billions years before Eden was planted.

God could have done all kinds of things. That's no reason to doubt the things the Bible says He did do.

Here's a good article that may be helpful.
WHEN DID SATAN FALL FROM HEAVEN?

 

[mark kennedy]

Okay, so would you say that since salvation is a creation event, that one cannot be a christian who believes in evolution? I was just hoping for a real simple answer.

That very much depends on what you mean by evolution because the scientific definition is consist with young earth creation. The miracle of new birth is not based on what you don't believe, it's based on what Jesus Christ did on your behalf.

You tell me what you mean by 'evolution' and I tell you if I consider it mutually exclusive with saving faith.

 

[SkyWriting]

If mankind was older than 7,000 years he would have long ago became an instinct species.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda's don't count for nothing.

 

[mark kennedy]

Our God is an eternal being. 15 billion years between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:5 is no big deal for him.

The text of Genesis 1 is perfectly consistent with that statement, except for the part about it being no big deal.

 

[SkyWriting]

Our God is an eternal being. 15 billion years between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:5 is no big deal for him. I believe that God gave Lucifer free run of this known universe... But Lucifer's time is growing short. I think also, in 15 billion years, many of the fallen angels have lost track and forgotten their original state. The hearts are hopelessly hardened and quite evil If mankind was older than 7,000 years he would have long ago became an instinct species.

We don't know how much time passed from when Jesus decided to turn water into wine and the time it was analyzed by the resident wine expert.
We don't know how much time passed from the start to the end of any act of creation. But the text suggests it was instantaneous no matter the end result.

 

[mark kennedy]

We don't know how much time passed from when Jesus decided to turn water into wine and the time it was analyzed by the resident wine expert.
We don't know how much time passed from the start to the end of any act of creation. But the text suggests it was instantaneous no matter the end result.

The creation itself happened in an instant, no one questions that if they believe in Creation at all. The text renders the time, chronologically, of the original creation unknown and irrelevant. Don't get me wrong, creation week happened in six days and the genealogies are sound primary source documentation for the historicity of the Pentateuch and the other historical narratives. The problem is that all we know is that the creation of the heavens and the earth was 'in the beginning', setting a date to that is pointless even though a 6,000 year time line is perfectly fine by me just not required.

What ever happened to speak where the Scriptures speak and be silent where they are silent. The creation of life is all this creation/evolution controversy is about and wasting time on completely unreliable dating methods is a tangent.

I've debated a lot of Darwinians and they are obsessed with the irrelevant. God created the universe (Gen 1:1), life (Genesis 1:21), and man Genesis 1:27) by divine fiat and that is exactly where the emphasis is on Creation. This approach dovetails seamlessly with the New Testament witness regarding creation and we do well to emphasis that God created life at every opportunity. They are lost when it comes to the life sciences and with a little reading, refuting Darwinism is little more the a Biology lesson.

"In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not". (John 1:4,5)​

You might want to give that a little thought.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Calminian]

The creation itself happened in an instant, no one questions that if they believe in Creation at all. The text renders the time, chronologically, of the original creation unknown and irrelevant. Don't get me wrong, creation week happened in six days and the genealogies are sound primary source documentation for the historicity of the Pentateuch and the other historical narratives. The problem is that all we know is that the creation of the heavens and the earth was 'in the beginning', setting a date to that is pointless even though a 6,000 year time line is perfectly fine by me just not required.

Mark is basing this on John Sailhamer's book, Genesis Unbound. But the truth is, Genesis 1:1 is not referring to a different creation than Genesis 1:2-2:4. This thesis has been thoroughly discredited. This was the assertion of the gap theory, and now the more modern land of Eden creation theory.

reshiyth (beginning) can refer to an instant or extended period of time. Thus the beginning can refer to the creation week. Often times in the old testament, reshiyth will be used of the early part of a king's reign, and then the text will go back speak of a certain time period within the beginning.

But all gap theories are still completely discredited with Moses' statement in Exodus 20.

11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.​

All attempts to separate Genesis 1:1 from 1:2 are at odds with Moses' understanding of the creation.

 

[mark kennedy]

Hi mark,

It was God. God is light. The Scriptures say so.

Of course it is, the Shekhinah glory of God was in the Tabernacle because God was present. That's what it means, 'present'.

There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

That's right, never had any doubts about that.

and:

The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

Notice, the 'glory of God' gives it light.

Just as the light that will exist after judgment will be the light of God and there will be neither sun or moon, the light before the sun or moon existed was the light of God. You see, God knew that He would have to create a secondary source of light because He also knew that until His plan came to completion, on the day of His judgment, we would need another source of light. God cannot live with sin and so He cannot be our light today. This is why the Shekinah glory of God left Israel. Israel was supposed to be obedient, but when they refused, God had to remove Himself from their presence or He would have destroyed them before everything was completed.

God didn't have to create the light, the sun was created Genesis 1:1. Do you really think there was nothing but the earth floating in an empty vacuum? Indeed, God was the original light of creation while the earth was covered in clouds and water.

Yes, I have asked myself that question and have found the answer in the Scriptures.

That we can agree on.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Calminian]

...God didn't have to create the light, the sun was created Genesis 1:1….

Everyone should take notice, Mark has yet to prove this statement from the text.

 

[SkyWriting]

Everyone should take notice, Mark has yet to prove this statement.

History is not provable by science unless you can repeat the event.
(Science has no "proofs" anyway)

 

[SkyWriting]

Everyone should take notice, Mark has yet to prove this statement.

History is not provable by science unless you can repeat the event.
Science has no "proofs" anyway. Assuming you can repeat the
event in question, that doesn't prove it happened that way the
first time.

 

[SkyWriting]

The creation itself happened in an instant, no one questions that if they believe in Creation at all. The text renders the time, chronologically, of the original creation unknown and irrelevant. Don't get me wrong, creation week happened in six days and the genealogies are sound primary source documentation for the historicity of the Pentateuch and the other historical narratives. The problem is that all we know is that the creation of the heavens and the earth was 'in the beginning', setting a date to that is pointless even though a 6,000 year time line is perfectly fine by me just not required. What ever happened to speak where the Scriptures speak and be silent where they are silent. The creation of life is all this creation/evolution controversy is about and wasting time on completely unreliable dating methods is a tangent.
I've debated a lot of Darwinians and they are obsessed with the irrelevant. God created the universe (Gen 1:1), life (Genesis 1:21), and man Genesis 1:27) by divine fiat and that is exactly where the emphasis is on Creation. This approach dovetails seamlessly with the New Testament witness regarding creation and we do well to emphasis that God created life at every opportunity. They are lost when it comes to the life sciences and with a little reading, refuting Darwinism is little more the a Biology lesson.

"In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not". (John 1:4,5)​

You might want to give that a little thought.Grace and peace,Mark

I question that it happened in an instant, especially given your next sentence that it took 6 days. What's up with that?


And I agree that the age of creation is not a point of evangelism.
You are seeing my point.

 

[Calminian]

History is not provable by science...

He claims to have derived this from the Biblical text, not from science.

 

[mark kennedy]

I question that it happened in an instant, especially given your next sentence that it took 6 days. What's up with that?

Of course it happened in an instant, it didn't take all day for him to do it. Still there are six different days and separate acts of creation.I also believe in the big bang, God spoke and bang, there it was.

 

[SkyWriting]

He claims to have derived this from the Biblical text, not from science.

What comes from the scriptures is faith. That is expected.

 

[mark kennedy]

What comes from the scriptures is faith. That is expected.

I think he is still complaining that I refuse to assume creation week immediately followed the original creation. All the text tells us about that is it was, 'in the beginning'. The Genesis account emphasizes the creation of life, not the age of the earth.