Generational Curses.

gratefulgrace · May 15, 2009

Are you saying we are to pray for dead ancestors E2 or am I missing something.

KleinerApfel · May 15, 2009

Elijah2 said:
"'The Lord is patient and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but HE by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation'. Pardon the iniquity of this people, I pray, according to the greatness of Your mercy, just as You have forgiven this people...The the Lord said: 'I have pardoned, according to your word..." (Num. 14:18-20)

When we beg our Lord Jesus Christ to pardon the iniquity of our ancestors, HE will pardon and forgive them. The whole release is so simple, just by prayer, we are pardoned of the iniquity of our ancestors.

It's even simpler than that - we were never even held responsible by God for those sins in the first place!

KleinerApfel · May 15, 2009

(Please don't make me post those same scriptures explaining why that law is expired yet again! )

Joy · May 15, 2009

I have a few friends who are used in this kind of ministry and I trust them. So if one of them said the Holy Spirit had specifically shown them that anything was affecting me I would let them pray for me. But I am not going to be introspective and start blaming this for lack of healing etc.

Floatingaxe · May 15, 2009

The Lord is my banner said:
It's even simpler than that - we were never even held responsible by God for those sins in the first place!

We aren't responsible for sin, but we are given the way out of the effects.

I've seen too many women who were raped by their fathers in order to know this truth.

gratefulgrace · May 15, 2009

not sure what you mean axe could you explain please. gg

Floatingaxe · May 15, 2009

gratefulgrace said:
not sure what you mean axe could you explain please. gg

We do not bear imputed sin of our forebears. We bear the effects of it. We have the authority in Christ to make a stand against it and send it packing once and for all, so that the effects end with us and are not perpetuated in our sons and daughters.

Elijah2 · May 15, 2009

The Lord is my banner said:
(Please don't make me post those same scriptures explaining why that law is expired yet again! )

My dear sister, if your hands are cleansed and your heart is purified, then that's so very good, but don't become pious because I can assure you that the enemy will come along and smit you.

Now, you can believe what ever you like and whatever you believe is what you believe, so wipe the smile of your face and read what is really being said in Numbers 14:18.

I know far greater men of God and women who learnt the reall hard cold facts of this sort of curse, and I know because I come from a long line of idol worshippers.

You are not here to prove other wrong or yourself right?

You would never convince me because I have seen far too many good believers who struggled and struggled with illnesses, because of these curses.

Oh, by the way, how many Christians do you know who are still practising masons?

gratefulgrace · May 15, 2009

None.

Cassidy · May 15, 2009

The Lord is my banner said:
I wouldn't want anyone reading that last post I made to be afraid and think they're now under a generational curse, so I'd better reassure you by re-posting the updated word God gave to the prophets saying such a curse was not to be in effect for His people any longer...

Jeremiah 31
29 In those days people will no longer say, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.'

30Instead, everyone will die for his own sin; whoever eats sour grapes his own teeth will be set on edge.

Ezekiel 18

1 The word of the LORD came to me:
2 What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
'The fathers eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'?

3As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel.

4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.

Therefore it looks like God says if you're His then you do not carry a curse from a past generation and you don't need to "do" anything extra, just be His child and the blood of Jesus covers it all.

And again...

Heavenly Realm · May 16, 2009

Jimbeaux said:
I thought this generational thing was settled in Jeremiah and Ezekiel:

29 In those days they shall say no more:
The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the childrens teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge. 31 Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD, for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more. (Jeremiah 31)

1 The word of the LORD came to me again, saying, 2 What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:
The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the childrens teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, says the Lord GOD, you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die. (Ezekiel 18)

We can't blame our relatives for our sinfulness.

~Jim

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Spot on.

Floatingaxe · May 16, 2009

Once again, we aren't talking about sinning.

Elijah2 · May 16, 2009

gratefulgrace said:
Are you saying we are to pray for dead ancestors E2 or am I missing something.

Elijah2 · May 16, 2009

The Lord is my banner said:
It's even simpler than that - we were never even held responsible by God for those sins in the first place!

My dear sister, it appears you didn't read the verse quoted in any depth, and the catch-word is "PARDON". You ask our Lord Jesus Christ to "PARDON" them, that is, forgive them and it will be all settled. Such a simple action you make all righteous and use words that don't come into the picture whatsoever.

What a shame.

KleinerApfel · May 16, 2009

I apologise for being contentious, this isn't a game or a battle, and I know you who support this idea are godly, sincere, caring people.

My concern is that well-meaning people minister to frightened, sick Christians using this theory, and it can become a breeding ground for fear and loss of trust in God in the end.

Some people prayed with in that way do get better - because they are being heard, loved, and prayer of all kinds is surrounding them while you minister. God answers their seeking and the prayer and love they are immersed in, so they are healed and set free from their own sin, that's excellent!

BUT many go jumping through these theological hoops for years and don't get better, and are left feeling "cursed".
They are left with the belief that God cursed them because of their family's sin not their own - that there is a lingering taint on their lives for which they were never responsible yet they must "do" something to get it off.

Those people need to know that God is not punishing them because of ancestral sin, otherwise they could remain distant from him, not able to trust, not able to feel love for Him.

Axe, the ladies you speak of need healing for their emotions after such horrible trauma, and they need help to understand how to forgive their fathers.
However, truly the issue is exactly the same there as for any woman attacked by any man unrelated to her.

Of course there's the added dimension of betrayal, because a person we know well who is meant to love us should not harm us, but that is all - the sin is perpetrated directly upon her, it did not travel through the blood or the spiritual plane etc.

It simply happened in the natural - a man attacked a girl. Straightforward sin with a perpetrator and a victim.
Why make it sound worse than it is?

Floatingaxe · May 16, 2009

Axe, the ladies you speak of need healing for their emotions after such horrible trauma, and they need help to understand how to forgive their fathers.
However, truly the issue is exactly the same there as for any woman attacked by any man unrelated to her.

Every one of them have been brought to wholeness through a Godly counselor. They have had to wade through the issue of forgiveness, and have had to renounce any effects of generational sins that have been passed onto them so that the effects of it cease and do not follow to the children.

Of course there's the added dimension of betrayal, because a person we know well who is meant to love us should not harm us, but that is all - the sin is perpetrated directly upon her, it did not travel through the blood or the spiritual plane etc.

The effects of such a violent betrayal do pass on to the next generation in many ways.

It simply happened in the natural - a man attacked a girl. Straightforward sin with a perpetrator and a victim.
Why make it sound worse than it is?

It is more than a physical attack. The entire person: body, soul and spirit is affected!

Often there is a demon involved.

Why minimize it?

KleinerApfel · May 16, 2009

Not minimising anything, just saying it is what it is.

The women who were healed and set free were healed and set free from a sin perpetrated directly against them, and their children will not be affected in any way by it.

The only way they would have been affected even if she were not healed would be if she was unable to love and care for them because of her own woundedness, or if their grandfather had opportunity to sin against them directly in the same manner.

The grandchildren were never at spiritual risk due to the sin. If one of them had been adopted out to another family far away and never knew their mother or grandfather or anything about them, that so-called "generational sin" would not be part of their lives, at all, ever.

Elijah2 · May 16, 2009

My dear LIMB,

I apologise for being contentious, this isn't a game or a battle, and I know you who support this idea are godly, sincere, caring people.

My concern is that well-meaning people minister to frightened, sick Christians using this theory, and it can become a breeding ground for fear and loss of trust in God in the end.

Some people prayed with in that way do get better - because they are being heard, loved, and prayer of all kinds is surrounding them while you minister. God answers their seeking and the prayer and love they are immersed in, so they are healed and set free from their own sin, that's excellent!

BUT many go jumping through these theological hoops for years and don't get better, and are left feeling "cursed".

They are left with the belief that God cursed them because of their family's sin not their own - that there is a lingering taint on their lives for which they were never responsible yet they must "do" something to get it off.
My dear sister, nobody puts anyone through theological hoops, only those one who put themselves in that ministry with no understanding or knowledge of the supernatural realm and the powers of darkness.

I have never ever said to anyone that your problem is generational curses or teach it as doctrine. Like a doctor, when one isn’t receiving healing or freedom from normal counselling, healing and deliverance, then you take another view to their problems.

The sad thing about it, there is many Christians whose ancestral line is idol worship, and there are many Christians still practicing idol worship, placing their feet in two separate camps.

Those people need to know that God is not punishing them because of ancestral sin; otherwise they could remain distant from him, not able to trust, not able to feel love for Him.
I’ve never seen any one teach or preach this.

When a person is struggling, I myself, bring them to the point of emptying their house of all their deep down hurts, offences, anger, bitterness, resentfulness that are still buried in their “soul”, and to bring them to their “Freedom in Christ” through prayer of confession and repentance, and then to forgiveness.

Axe, the ladies you speak of need healing for their emotions after such horrible trauma, and they need help to understand how to forgive their fathers.
Confession, repentance, and forgiveness are the answers to all healing, and “Freedom in Christ”.

To bring them out of a horrible trauma or abuse, then it comes by time to heal.

However, truly the issue is exactly the same there as for any woman attacked by any man unrelated to her.

Of course there's the added dimension of betrayal, because a person we know well who is meant to love us should not harm us, but that is all - the sin is perpetrated directly upon her, it did not travel through the blood or the spiritual plane etc.

it simply happened in the natural - a man attacked a girl. Straightforward sin with a perpetrator and a victim.
Why make it sound worse than it is?
Actually, I have comes across testimonies that a sexual act through attack, can raise it’s ugly head or any sexual perversion, two generations later, and it goes on and on.

But, we cannot say that just because of one person’s act of a sexual act or perversion is a generational sin.

For an example, if your grandfather was a sex addict, and your dad was one too, and you decide to follow in their footsteps, you will have to face God one day and suffer the consequences.

However, if you decide not to be influenced by your grandfather’s and dad’s influence, and you decide to obey God instead, no condemnation will be held against you: “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death” (Rom 8:1-2 NKJV).

In Ezekiel 18:2-3, it says: “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying: ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’? ‘As I live’, says the Lord GOD, ‘you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.’” Once again, we can see that these verses can be used to prove that “generational curses” are not Biblical. The Jews used to have a saying that if fathers ate sour grapes, the children's teeth were set on edge, which meant that if a father did something wrong, it would be held against the children.

As we read a bit further in Ezekiel 18:19-20: “Yet you say, ‘why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.”

For the anti-generational curse teachers, these verses clarifies the individual responsibility for sin, and by this “generational curses” are not Biblical, and can be seen that we are judged by our actions, not by the actions of our dad, or our forefathers, but by our own actions. But, these curses have nothing to do about judging, but the result of a curse that Satan and his forces use against us in the spiritual realm.

But, once again we see that our Lord Jesus Christ promised: “Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed” (John 8:36 NKJV). And we are told not to blame our behaviour on our dad or your grandfather, or your great grandfather. We are responsible for our actions.

The good news is that forgiveness and deliverance is possible. Zech 4:6 “Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit.” NIV You can be set free through the power of God’s Holy Spirit!

The main point to be made, of all the believers I have come across who have done everything possible to removed a “dark shadow” that has been hovering over the family for generations, and they still struggle and flounder in their walk, and the reason why this happens, is that, the anti-generational curse people are in fact still in “idol worshipping” and are in fact the “devil’s advocate”, and they do the work of the enemy.

Blessings.

KleinerApfel · May 16, 2009

I am NOT worshipping idols, whatever are you talking about!

I don't understand your view and you don't understand mine, that gives you no right to accuse me of idolatry!

Seriously, where is the love here?

Now I know how right I was to remove myself from people teaching this and offering ministry, it's all about fear and blame and accusation and "if you don't agree with me you're deceived."

Had enough.

Deba · May 16, 2009

Don't get upset Sue. E2 tends to tilt demonic windmills.

Generational Curses.

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No weapons formed against me will prosper.

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