generational curses

[Reformationist]

I believe Him when He said, "It is finished." Unless, of course, they forgot to include His full sentence, "It is finished...once you spin around around on your head twice and chant <<insert your favorite chant here>> three times ...or fifty times if you still have guilt on the third time."

Or the ever popular, "It is finished...once you turn your life over to Christ," which is equally .

It would be much more biblically accurate to acknowledge that God's demand for justiced was satisfied on the Cross and the reason we "turn our life over to Christ" is because He has given us a new heart that seeks to be conformed to His image and looks to His provision for all things great and small.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Because, you can fully believe, without being sorry for everything else, besides unbelief.

Well, that is just not true. A saving belief is more than a head knowledge that Jesus is the Son of God. Even the demons have that knowledge, but are not saved.

Asaph

That statement in no way refutes (proves inaccurate) my point. You're merely adding to my point. Try again for 50 cents.

I completely agree Asaph, and it does refute AshenK's point because true belief evokes godly sorrow. No sorrow, no true faith.

AshenK, here's a few words for your edification:

• Notitia
• Assensus
• Fiducia

Hopefully that will help when you seek to define what true faith is.

Do I get the 50 cents?

God bless

 

[AshenK]

I completely agree Asaph, and it does refute AshenK's point because true belief evokes godly sorrow. No sorrow, no true faith.

Again, there is nothing in that statement that shows fallacy in what I've said.
You said true belief evokes Godly sorrow. I agree.
You're just adding to what I've said.

Do I get the 50 cents?

The machine does. Play again

 

[Reformationist]

Again, there is nothing in that statement that shows fallacy in what I've said.
You said true belief evokes Godly sorrow. I agree.
You're just adding to what I've said.

Oh, my fault. You see, it confused me when you said, "You can fully believe, without being sorry for everything else, besides unbelief." I had assumed you meant what you said, rather than committing some sort of doubletalk. It all makes sense now.

For the record, let me clarify that I, also, believe that receiving salvation and confessing past sins are two different issues. We receive salvation based SOLELY on the work of Christ. Not even our act of being sorry for unbelief is a basis for our being saved. Such sorrow for sins, including the sin of prior unbelief, are a RESULT of being saved by God, not a means to it.

Either way, my comment was directed at your nonsensical claim that true belief is present if sorrow for ALL sins is not, not just the sin of unbelief. If you feel that what I said adds to what you said then you and I have a whole lot more theological differences than simply a disagreement on what constitutes true faith.

The machine does. Play again

No thanks. I tire of this game. It is destined to go the way of all silly triflings that are based on fantasy.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Well, this is timely. I'm sitting in the tub this evening reading "Hills to die on: A Doctrinal Framework for Developing Discernment" by Dan Dumas and a few things really struck me. I'll just throw a few out. I don't think they'll matter much to the health/wealth crowd but may matter to the rest of us.

"Sadly, many Christians downplay key aspects of the gospel message (such as the lordship of Christ discussed above). As a result, false professions of faith are commonplace in the contemporary church where belief is redefined as mere assent, and repentance is missed altogether. But discerning Christians are not impressed with watered-down gospel presentations,nor are they fooled by the false promises of prosperity preachers. Instead they have a clear grasp of the gospel, always being ready to give an account for the hope that is in them (cf. 1 Peter 3:15)"

and

"...Any new "converts" spend the rest of their Christian lives trying to meet their own felt needs and never really dealing wiht the sin in their lives-choosing instead to ignore it or to redefine it as 'honest mistakes' or 'unhealed wounds'. "

and, my two cents, just add "or 'generational sin'" to the above line.

and

"In embracing Christ's work on our behalf, we abandon any form of self-sufficiency, choosing instead to thank God that He has chosen us - the weak, the foolish,and the unimportant (1 Cor 1:26-29)"

I'll also share a few Bible verses mentioned:

8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[d] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

I have to say, I think discernment is one of the most awesome gifts God can give us. He promises us that if we just ask for wisdom (discernment) and truly desire it, He'll give it to us. As humans, each and every one of us is susceptible to deception. Deception looks like the real thing to us and if we are not grounded in the Word and a right relationship with the Lord, we'll get taken. This is why we need to pray for discernment and, for me, this has not been a one-time prayer. I've been praying this continually for several years now and as a result, I see this generational sin thing for what it is. It is deception and it keeps folks and it kept me from a true relationship with the Lord. For that reason, we need to speak out against it and while we may not change the minds of those already involved in these teachings, we may keep somebody else from being preyed upon with these teachings. Strong words, perhaps, but I've been there, done that and it is just not worth it.

God bless.

 

[Asaph]

The whole of the question stems from not knowing what has happened when we get saved and who we actually are now that we are saved.

I just don't know how I could possibly lay it out any clearer. When we are saved we pass from being a member of the body of the dead, to being a member of the Body of Christ. It's instantaneous and permanent. We are children of the King.

Asaph

 

[Reformationist]

Amen to both Oregal and Asaph.

God bless

 

[Asaph]

Amen to both Oregal and Asaph.

God bless

You bet man. To be honest there is a point I have been avoiding that I suspect you may be able to address better than I. I am coming to the conclusion, though I am just now on the tip of the idea, that all curses of any kind, actually come from God.

Is this something you have put any study into?

I am beginning to think that a real curse actually is only something God Himself can do.

Like I say, I do not have a good grasp on this yet, but it may have merit.

Have you studied further on it?

Asaph

 

[AshenK]

The whole of the question stems from not knowing what has happened when we get saved and who we actually are now that we are saved.

I just don't know how I could possibly lay it out any clearer. When we are saved we pass from being a member of the body of the dead, to being a member of the Body of Christ. It's instantaneous and permanent. We are children of the King.

Asaph

I don't disagree with that statement at all Agreed.

 

[AshenK]

You bet man. To be honest there is a point I have been avoiding that I suspect you may be able to address better than I. I am coming to the conclusion, though I am just now on the tip of the idea, that all curses of any kind, actually come from God.

Is this something you have put any study into?

I am beginning to think that a real curse actually is only something God Himself can do.

Like I say, I do not have a good grasp on this yet, but it may have merit.

Have you studied further on it?

Asaph

If God were to send me sickness (curses), He'd have to steal it first. (Proverbs 10:22)

God makes things perfect, and they defile themselves into a curse.
For instance, God made Lucifer - not satan. Lucifer was defiled and became satan. (Isaiah 14:12)

 

[Asaph]

If God were to send me sickness (curses), He'd have to steal it first. (Proverbs 10:22)

God makes things perfect, and they defile themselves into a curse.
For instance, God made Lucifer - not satan. Lucifer was defiled and became satan. (Isaiah 14:12)

Not true though. I am the perfection of Jesus. Perfection cannot be defiled. It is impossible.

Even though you have commented on almost nothing I have written so far, I am going to assume you have at least read it. So in light of all that, let me ask this:

Do you think that there is the ability within yourself, giving it every possible strength you might have, using every leverage and intellegence at your disposal, to cause Jesus to be attributed with being a sinner of His own accord?

Don't take this question lightly. I am speaking here of your ability to make Jesus sin. Do you have that ability?

Asaph

 

[AshenK]

Not true though. I am the perfection of Jesus. Perfection cannot be defiled. It is impossible.

Bingo. Your spirit is perfect and cannot be defiled. It is impossible.
But our body/soul can, thus making it possible just for your body/soul.

Even though you have commented on almost nothing I have written so far, I am going to assume you have at least read it. So in light of all that, let me ask this:

Wha does that mean?

Do you think that there is the ability within yourself, giving it every possible strength you might have, using every leverage and intellegence at your disposal, to cause Jesus to be attributed with being a sinner of His own accord?

Don't take this question lightly. I am speaking here of your ability to make Jesus sin. Do you have that ability?

You're asking if I have the ability to make Jesus sin? Sounds like a trick question.

 

[Asaph]

Bingo. Your spirit is perfect and cannot be defiled. It is impossible.
But our body/soul can, thus making it possible just for your body/soul.




Wha does that mean?



You're asking if I have the ability to make Jesus sin? Sounds like a trick question.

No, not a trick question at all. I'm trying to get you to see exactly who it is that lives within us and how that in turn affects what can and cannot happen to us.

Asaph

 

[Reformationist]

You bet man. To be honest there is a point I have been avoiding that I suspect you may be able to address better than I. I am coming to the conclusion, though I am just now on the tip of the idea, that all curses of any kind, actually come from God.

Is this something you have put any study into?

I am beginning to think that a real curse actually is only something God Himself can do.

Like I say, I do not have a good grasp on this yet, but it may have merit.

Have you studied further on it?

Asaph

I have not studied it indepth but the first thing we should do is define what we mean by "a real curse." I don't think that it is necessarily appropriate to call a curse what God has purposed for our good. Now, many may say that they do not see how cancer or some other dibilitating disease or sickness or poverty or other trial is a "good" thing and, to that, I will only say that all things that children of God encounter, even things they may consider a curse, are ordained by God to conform His children to the image of Christ and, in that respect, they are good. We may not enjoy them. We may fail to be godly in the midst of trial. This changes nothing. All things are purposed and governed by the Almighty to conform His children and bring Him glory. How many people who suffer from things we cannot even imagine how to deal with are the most godly and thankful people we have ever met? Take a trip to a children's ward that deals with terminal patients. None of them sit around crying all the time about their sickness. The majority of them have seen the grace of God in their sickness and are more thankful for each day than you or I will ever be. They all have better relationships with other people and are more considerate and caring than anyone we know. Would they call their disease a curse when they see the hand of God giving them peace and love? Is it a curse if it causes their parents and their family and friends to see them for the beautiful creations of God that they are and, because of that, come to God in faith? I would have to say that is a blessing, not a curse. A difficult blessing, to be sure, but a blessing nonetheless.

What do you think?

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

If God were to send me sickness (curses), He'd have to steal it first. (Proverbs 10:22)

God makes things perfect, and they defile themselves into a curse.
For instance, God made Lucifer - not satan. Lucifer was defiled and became satan. (Isaiah 14:12)

Did God not realize that Lucifer would rebel and become defiled? Did God not have the power to stop Lucifer from rebelling?

Also, if God made Lucifer perfect, which I don't deny, that state was obviously mutable because an immutably perfect being cannot change. How does a perfect being desire that which is not perfectly in accordance with God's will? Such a desire is, in and of itself, imperfect. How does a perfect being desire imperfection? It would be contrary to its very nature.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Bingo. Your spirit is perfect and cannot be defiled. It is impossible.
But our body/soul can, thus making it possible just for your body/soul.

For my edification, what is the biblical basis for this threefold facet theory of man's being, i.e., spirit, soul, and body? I see the nature of man as inner man (all non-physical aspects of his being) and outer man (his physicality).

Thanks,
God bless

 

[AshenK]

For my edification, what is the biblical basis for this threefold facet theory of man's being, i.e., spirit, soul, and body? I see the nature of man as inner man (all non-physical aspects of his being) and outer man (his physicality).

Thanks,
God bless

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Man's three part being.

 

[Reformationist]

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Man's three part being.

That's it? Is there more?

Also, can you address post 115?

Thanks,
God bless

 

[AshenK]

That's it? Is there more?

Also, can you address post 115?

Thanks,
God bless

Spirit is that which is alive through faith, and sealed by the Holy Spirit by the Blood of Jesus.
Soul is our mind, will emotions
Body is our physical man.

Three parts to man.
Similar to God the Father/Son/Holy Spirit - Three parts, because we're made in Their image. (Genesis 1:26)

Did God not realize that Lucifer would rebel and become defiled? Did God not have the power to stop Lucifer from rebelling?

Also, if God made Lucifer perfect, which I don't deny, that state was obviously mutable because an immutably perfect being cannot change. How does a perfect being desire that which is not perfectly in accordance with God's will? Such a desire is, in and of itself, imperfect. How does a perfect being desire imperfection? It would be contrary to its very nature.

God bless

God made Lucifer, and Lucifer defiled himself, then became Satan.

God made the earth and it was good (glorifying) (Genesis 1:10). The curse came through sin.

I know in my life, it's not God's will for me to cursed. Curses may come against me to kill my faith (Mark 4:17), but I'll always be victorious with God's Word, and He's always glorified better than ever (John 15:8)

 

[Reformationist]

Spirit is that which is alive through faith, and sealed by the Holy Spirit by the Blood of Jesus.
Soul is our mind, will emotions
Body is our physical man.

Um...that is a definition of your view. I was actually asking for a biblical basis for your view of man being a three faceted personality.

Three parts to man.
Similar to God the Father/Son/Holy Spirit - Three parts, because we're made in Their image. (Genesis 1:26)

This isn't really a logical conclusion. It's not as if one aspect of our being reflects the Father, another the Son, and the third the Holy Spirit, nor do the members of the Godhead have three distinct aspects to their individual nature.

God made Lucifer, and Lucifer defiled himself, then became Satan.

Okay.

God made the earth and it was good (glorifying) (Genesis 1:10). The curse came through sin.

Um...okay.

I know in my life, it's not God's will for me to cursed. Curses may come against me to kill my faith (Mark 4:17), but I'll always be victorious with God's Word, and He's always glorified better than ever (John 15:8)

Well, that was fun. Now can you address the questions I actually asked? I'll restate them for clarity:

• Did God not realize that Lucifer would rebel and become defiled?
• Did God not have the power to stop Lucifer from rebelling?
• How does a perfect being desire imperfection being that it would be contrary to its very nature?

Thanks,
God bless