generational curses

[Asaph]

Hi there

The problem with some 'generational Curses' views is that, In Christ you could repent of and break things from the past. However for some people this doesnt seem to meet the requirements . you got to keep repenting over and over, going to more meetings and getting more books with no end in sight.

I know someone who has been 20 years breaking a spirit and its still 'there'.

I think that understanding salvitic repentance is the key to this arguement. (Not really so much an arguement as a failure to come into agreement).

My understanding of the repentance that happens at the moment of salvation is entirely different than that which a person may find themselves doing when they have realized they are not walking in a way that pleases God on some occasion after salvation.

The repentance we are given at salvation is more like a "one time use" light switch. Prior to being saved we don't even know that the switch is in the "off" position. In fact, we don't even know that the switch exists. We are enemies of God. We don't know Him, neither could we know Him.

So the Holy Spirit comes along and begins drawing us and at some point that switch is flipped and the light comes on. Woohoo! We get saved. Now our switch is permanently flipped on. We have repented from death to Life.

Repentance after that is nothing more than coming into agreement with God about that which happened when the switch was flipped. We agree that through nothing we have done of ourselves, we have been made perfectly righteous in His eyes because of the sacrifice made on our behalf. Perfect righteousness is not progressive.

However, coming to understand it may be. And that is where I think these false notions that a Child of God can be cursed comes from.

(BTW, I'm not speaking directly to your post here Lismore. I was just using it as a springboard of sorts. )

Asaph

 

[AshenK]

When did I say this? I said salvation comes through believing, and you change what you believe with what you say, that's why it's necessary to confess with your mouth.

I don't believe in works, if that's what you're insinuating. It's nothing you do, aside from receiving it.

Clearly said.

This guy believes he is saved thru works and not thru grace.

Congratulations on putting words in my mouth. Avoid these kind of nonsense comments, In love, AshenK.

 

[AshenK]

I think that understanding salvitic repentance is the key to this arguement. (Not really so much an arguement as a failure to come into agreement).

My understanding of the repentance that happens at the moment of salvation is entirely different than that which a person may find themselves doing when they have realized they are not walking in a way that pleases God on some occasion after salvation.

The repentance we are given at salvation is more like a "one time use" light switch. Prior to being saved we don't even know that the switch is in the "off" position. In fact, we don't even know that the switch exists. We are enemies of God. We don't know Him, neither could we know Him.

So the Holy Spirit comes along and begins drawing us and at some point that switch is flipped and the light comes on. Woohoo! We get saved. Now our switch is permanently flipped on. We have repented from death to Life.

Repentance after that is nothing more than coming into agreement with God about that which happened when the switch was flipped. We agree that through nothing we have done of ourselves, we have been made perfectly righteous in His eyes because of the sacrifice made on our behalf. Perfect righteousness is not progressive.

However, coming to understand it may be. And that is where I think these false notions that a Child of God can be cursed comes from.

(BTW, I'm not speaking directly to your post here Lismore. I was just using it as a springboard of sorts. )

Asaph

I believe the only unforgivable sin is unbelief. Once we repent of unbelief, by believing in what Jesus did, we are now saved forever. See, that doesn't mean you've repented of all your sins though, thus it is still possible to harbor old sins.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Clearly said.



Congratulations on putting words in my mouth. Avoid these kind of nonsense comments, In love, AshenK.

but, unfortunately, this is how I read your posts perhaps more so because I used to believe as you do. Honestly, knowing nothing about you other than what I've read on this thread, I have to wonder if you are involved in some sort of word of faith church. Unfortunately those teachings can be incredibly deceptive.

 

[Asaph]

I believe the only unforgivable sin is unbelief. Once we repent of unbelief, by believing in what Jesus did, we are now saved forever. See, that doesn't mean you've repented of all your sins though, thus it is still possible to harbor old sins.

Well, yes it does mean you have repented from all your sin. That's my entire point in a nutshell. You have passed from death to Life. Perfect righteousness is not progressive. An understanding of perfect righteousness may be, the that does not change the fact that perfection is perfect forever.

Asaph

 

[repoland2]

I believe the only unforgivable sin is unbelief. Once we repent of unbelief, by believing in what Jesus did, we are now saved forever. See, that doesn't mean you've repented of all your sins though, thus it is still possible to harbor old sins.

The only unforgivable sin is blaspheme my friend.

 

[rider2]

I can understand your post here. I have counseled Christian's, especially new converts, that have gone through your experience. It is not uncommon in todays world we live in.
Sadly many Churches and Christians, are just not equiped to take this subject on, and minister to those in need like this.
I and other Christian friends have worked with men and women, and young people trying to come out of these situations. Especially those coming out of the cults, and cult churches, and they are many.
There is hope.
Try to reach out and find help in your area. It will take effort on your part, and ask the Lord to guide you to find someone.
It will be a daily battle but it's worth the fight. And it is a fight. But be brave, don't be discouraged.
Even many non Christian counselors can at times be far more a help than Churches, or Christian's themselves.
There are free community outreaches, that offer this help also. If your financial situation can't afford anything like this, don't give up. There are community based groups that can give free help.

 

[Asaph]

I can understand your post here. I have counseled Christian's, especially new converts, that have gone through your experience. It is not uncommon in todays world we live in.
Sadly many Churches and Christians, are just not equiped to take this subject on, and minister to those in need like this.
I and other Christian friends have worked with men and women, and young people trying to come out of these situations. Especially those coming out of the cults, and cult churches, and they are many.
There is hope.
Try to reach out and find help in your area. It will take effort on your part, and ask the Lord to guide you to find someone.
It will be a daily battle but it's worth the fight. And it is a fight. But be brave, don't be discouraged.
Even many non Christian counselors can at times be far more a help than Churches, or Christian's themselves.
There are free community outreaches, that offer this help also. If your financial situation can't afford anything like this, don't give up. There are community based groups that can give free help.

 

[AshenK]

but, unfortunately, this is how I read your posts perhaps more so because I used to believe as you do. Honestly, knowing nothing about you other than what I've read on this thread, I have to wonder if you are involved in some sort of word of faith church. Unfortunately those teachings can be incredibly deceptive.

Oh, there are things in this "word of faith" movement I agree with, but there are also things I disagree with. This applies with most denominations.

What parts of this 'word of faith' movement do you disagree with, and what parts do you agree with? I'm interested.

 

[AshenK]

Well, yes it does mean you have repented from all your sin. That's my entire point in a nutshell. You have passed from death to Life. Perfect righteousness is not progressive. An understanding of perfect righteousness may be, the that does not change the fact that perfection is perfect forever.

Asaph

I believe you don't have to repent from all your sins to be saved. You just have to believe, and believing does away with unbelief, which is the only thing that sends you to hell.

 

[Asaph]

I believe you don't have to repent from all your sins to be saved. You just have to believe, and believing does away with unbelief, which is the only thing that sends you to hell.

Well, it might surprise you to hear that I actually agree with you that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (the unpardonable sin) is actually not believing on the only begotten Son of God, Jesus.

However, what we are disagreeing on is what that saving belief is I think, and what sin actually is.

Sin actually means to "miss" the mark. In archery if you get nine out of ten shots in the bullseye, that one shot that you miss is a "sin" and it means then that you were not perfect. God is perfect, and His requirement to be with Him is absolute perfection. Absolute sinlessness. Jesus came to earth and lived a perfectly sinless life. He never missed the mark. Yet He suffered the wages of sin. The wages of sin is death. That sacrifice is what allows Him to bestow upon us His own perfection. His own righteousness. When we are saved through the acceptance of this gift we are made perfect in God's eyes because of what His own Son has done, and when God looks at us He sees His Son. Perfect.

Prior to being saved we have within us not even one thing that is righteous. The bible says that if we sin in even one way we are then guilty of sinning in all ways. Any lack of perfection is a complete lack of perfection in the eyes of God, and His eyes are all that matter. He is perfect, so you must be perfect too.

So when we repent what we are actually doing is agreeing with God that we are sinners in need of a saviour. We are agreeing that God is God and we want to love Him forever. Nothing is held back. We are not repenting of some long list of specific sins, we are repenting of denying God. We are saying we choose Love over hate. Good over evil. God over our own lives.

So yes, when we repent and are saved we have repented of all sins. We have repented from imperfection to perfection.

Asaph

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

So, when we are saved, we are not totally forgiven...just partially forgiven???

 

[Asaph]

Perfection is not progressive. It is either eternally perfect, or it is forever imperfect.

Discovering what has actually been done for us, for me, for every born again child of God, is the very first step in walking in the Spirit.

Sit down in the finished work of Jesus, and you will never again doubt the conclusion of the matter.

Asaph

 

[AshenK]

Well, it might surprise you to hear that I actually agree with you that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (the unpardonable sin) is actually not believing on the only begotten Son of God, Jesus.

However, what we are disagreeing on is what that saving belief is I think, and what sin actually is.

Sin actually means to "miss" the mark. In archery if you get nine out of ten shots in the bullseye, that one shot that you miss is a "sin" and it means then that you were not perfect. God is perfect, and His requirement to be with Him is absolute perfection. Absolute sinlessness. Jesus came to earth and lived a perfectly sinless life. He never missed the mark. Yet He suffered the wages of sin. The wages of sin is death. That sacrifice is what allows Him to bestow upon us His own perfection. His own righteousness. When we are saved through the acceptance of this gift we are made perfect in God's eyes because of what His own Son has done, and when God looks at us He sees His Son. Perfect.

Prior to being saved we have within us not even one thing that is righteous. The bible says that if we sin in even one way we are then guilty of sinning in all ways. Any lack of perfection is a complete lack of perfection in the eyes of God, and His eyes are all that matter. He is perfect, so you must be perfect too.

So when we repent what we are actually doing is agreeing with God that we are sinners in need of a saviour. We are agreeing that God is God and we want to love Him forever. Nothing is held back. We are not repenting of some long list of specific sins, we are repenting of denying God. We are saying we choose Love over hate. Good over evil. God over our own lives.

So yes, when we repent and are saved we have repented of all sins. We have repented from imperfection to perfection.

Asaph

I think receiving salvation and confessing past sins are two separate issues, to be dealt with separately. Because, you can fully believe, without being sorry for everything else, besides unbelief.

 

[Asaph]

I think receiving salvation and confessing past sins are two separate issues, to be dealt with separately. Because, you can fully believe, without being sorry for everything else, besides unbelief.

Well, that is just not true. A saving belief is more than a head knowledge that Jesus is the Son of God. Even the demons have that knowledge, but are not saved.

Asaph

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I think receiving salvation and confessing past sins are two separate issues, to be dealt with separately. Because, you can fully believe, without being sorry for everything else, besides unbelief.

 

[Asaph]

The picture comes more and more into focus doesn't it?

Asaph

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

The picture comes more and more into focus doesn't it?

Asaph

It really does. I actually had a long post typed out but that little face seemed to sum it up so much better.

I am just so thankful that each and every one of my sins was forgiven when I turned my life over to Christ. Nothing, absolutely nothing I could do to wipe that slate clean. Christ took it all on the cross for me. I believe Him when He said, "It is finished." Unless, of course, they forgot to include His full sentence, "It is finished...once you spin around around on your head twice and chant <<insert your favorite chant here>> three times ...or fifty times if you still have guilt on the third time."

 

[Asaph]

It really does. I actually had a long post typed out but that little face seemed to sum it up so much better.

I am just so thankful that each and every one of my sins was forgiven when I turned my life over to Christ. Nothing, absolutely nothing I could do to wipe that slate clean. Christ took it all on the cross for me. I believe Him when He said, "It is finished." Unless, of course, they forgot to include His full sentence, "It is finished...once you spin around around on your head twice and chant <<insert your favorite chant here>> three times ...or fifty times if you still have guilt on the third time."

Amen.

Asaph

 

[AshenK]

Well, that is just not true. A saving belief is more than a head knowledge that Jesus is the Son of God. Even the demons have that knowledge, but are not saved.

Asaph

That statement in no way refutes (proves inaccurate) my point. You're merely adding to my point. Try again for 50 cents.