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Generational curses? No way!!

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Jim B

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Hi Trish. Thanks for responding, You quoted Mark 11-23 (a wonderful scripture) which says:
Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall SAY unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he SAYETH shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he SAYETH.

Does that mean ANYthing? Is God’s answer to our every whim always Yes? My friends think so.

What did James mean when he wrote, “When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.” (James 4.3)

What did John mean when he wrote, “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us--whatever we ask--we know that we have what we asked of him.” (1 John 5.14-15)

How do we reconcile this with Mark 11.23?

Jim
 
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Trish1947

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Does that mean ANYthing? Is God’s answer to our every whim always Yes? My friends think so.
Paul says, that everything is Yes and Amen to the Glory of God the Father.

Jesus says nothing shall be impossible to those who believeth.

I"ll give you an example in my own life. Many years ago I visited a place that I dearly wanted to move to and live. Totally my own desires, but my husband worked for a company that moved him where ever they wanted him to go. So it looked pretty impossible for me to get to this place, but I confessed this for 20 yrs. The year my husband retired, they called him up and asked him if he wanted to finish up his career where??? The town I wanted to move to. You usually have to take tests, oral interviews, be put on a waiting list, and wait, while your never chosen. He had to do none of this, they just called. I never gave up. And I'm still in this town, which I dearly love, all because of His faithfulness to my belief.
 
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crystalpc

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We are not talking about God's whim, we are talking about lining our own confessions, up with God's word. First we find the word, then we dare believe God meant it when he said it, so we say it ourselves. That brings faith. It becomes a Remah, or living word in us.
Everything we have is because of the Word. It was the Word who became flesh. You would not have been saved if you hadn't believed the Word of someones testimony. Jesus prayer in John was not only for these, but for those who believe upon their words. We all came that way. John 17:20
James said we have not because we ask amiss. This reconciles with John. If you search the Word, you will be asking according to his will. His Word is his will. God did not say something just to fill up empty spaces in scripture.
I have because God said I have it, if he said it who am I to disbelieve it?

Without faith it is impossible to please God for first you must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them who diligently seek him. If he didn't want me to believe that he shouldn't have said it.
 
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Trish1947

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Jesus said whatsoever things YOU DESIRE, believe that you receive them and you SHALL have them. Now, after you have been born again of the Spirit of God by accepting Jesus as your Lord, Your heart is being changed. But you still have desires, they arent evil. How can it be evil to want to be healed, or have a decent place to live, or have your children saved, or to prosper, or grow spiritually, Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His rightousness, and all these things shall be added unto you. Seek out his word, find out what his will is.


It shouldnt be too hard to figure out that Jesus wants us well, blessed, both spiritually and he wants you to have the desires of your heart.
He provided all their needs when He was here. I dont remember Him making any body ill when he was here. If it brings Glory to God, then it's basicly a commandment to have faith to believe.
 
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Jim B

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Hi Trish & Crystalpc,

I think I see where you are coming from on the “confess it/possess it” turn this thread has taken. Your position is not as bizarre – at least the way you are presenting it – as it is sometimes practiced by some more gullible believers.

Some years ago a young couple I knew in the Houston area, both brand new Christians who came to the Lord in a Charismatic church, spent a little too much time watching TBN during one of their semi-annual Moneythons, and happily bit the confession/prosperity bait hook-line-and sinker. To their untaught minds, young believers that they were, the Lord wanted them to be rich and have all the toys their favorite prosperity preachers had, but in order to get those things they had to empty their meager bank account and send a huge check to TBN.

So they started confessing a big two-story house in an upscale neighborhood, the Jaguar they always wanted, brand new Victorian furniture, a huge big screen TV, etc. etc. Within months they had secured loans for all of this. But, of course, none of this would be theirs until they sent in their huge pledge to TBN. They kept saying, “God will not let go of what is in His hand until we let go of what’s in our hand.” So, they sent in their life savings to TBN just as they had promised to do and confessed a windfall. Then they sat back and waited for the big ship to come in.

And they waited. And waited. And all the while they confessed all the good things they honestly believed God would soon bring their way.

Then the bills came due and, in just a matter of months their elation during the lies they had been sold on TBN became desperation in the face of reality. They lost their home, Jag, toys, savings … every material thing they had worked so hard to own for the few years they were married. They wound up declaring bankruptcy and to this day are trying to pick up the pieces, refusing themselves the joy of having children because, well, they can’t afford it. Their pastor, also a confession-guy, has been of little help to them. His solution to their need is to advise them to be patient. He says that they have cast their bread on the water, but it will take “many days” for it to return to them. He keeps telling them, “you don’t reap in the same season you sow,” and a lot of other cute slogans that come over TV and on the pop-theology shelf of their local Christian bookstore.

But it has been a decade since they sent their “seed offering” to TBN and they are still in dire strats financially. Today, they live in a small mobile home on run-down lot in a run-down neighborhood, drive a six-year-old junker of a car, and fight over finances regularly. Worse still, they have become disillusioned with Christianity – at least the bitter taste of Christianity they initially bit into – and are no longer involved in the Kingdom. In fact, she is extremely angry at all-things-Christian and their marriage is constantly in trouble. They are today among the unchurched. Personally, I do not expect them to stay married (I know that is a “bad confession”, but I am being honest).

This is just one of several horror stories I have encountered that is the fruit of the confession doctrine gone wild.

Meanwhile, TBN continues to expand, "proof" of the correctness of their prosperity/confession doctrine.

I've got another one about a family -- big fans of Ken Copeland -- who "adopted" an unchurched cancer patient, daily confessed her healing, and, despite daily visits, anointing with oil, fervent prayer, and confessions of healing, watched her slowly waste away and die. The last time we saw them they were totally disillusioned and clinging to their shredded faith. Fortunately, they had a more balance (Assemblies of God) pastor to advise them and help get them back on track.

And there are more stories.

Sigh.
 
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Trish1947

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Jim BHi Trish & Crystalpc,

I think I see where you are coming from on the “confess it/possess it” turn this thread has taken. Your position is not as bizarre – at least the way you are presenting it – as it is sometimes practiced by some more gullible believers.
The only thing I can say to that is it does not nullify the fact that God's word is true. There can be many factors why it turns out that way. God is not a slot machine, or a lottery ticket, and He definatly knows a persons motives of why they would want to "claim" everything in the world, just to posses all things. As Paul said, I pray above all things that you prosper AS your soul prospers. I believe that alot of people jump on the bandwagon to put God's word to the test, for material things, but they don't want to grow spiritually, or are new to the faith, and haven't grown in the knowledge of Him. Those words we're given to us for a reason. He was showing us what level of faith He wants to bring us to. New Christians are very vulnerable to putting their faith in something someone else said, (even though its true for the one saying it) without getting God's word down in their own hearts to grow to believe. It's a relationship, with the King of Kings, if the relationship hasen't grown enough to believe, but base it on someone elses faith level, dont expect the word to work in your life, it then becomes a presumption on your part, because of what someone else said, and not a God given increase in your heart to believe. Only God knows the heart. If you be willing and obediant He will bring you to this level of faith. Jesus is the one that gives the faith to believe. It's not based on what someone else has said. We're to "Seek the Kingdom of God first, then all these things will be added".. thats our responsability, "if your only able to digest milk because your a baby, you will choke if your fed meat," as I heard a minister say. He gives the increase to believe things that He has said, such as "Whosoever SAIETH" And no one has been given the increase at the same level. He deals with us as individuals.

THE WORK OF GOD BEGINS ON THE INSIDE OF US, NOT THE OUTSIDE.
 
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crystalpc

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Jim,
I have to agree with Trish. My own son, although he was in financial trouble because of his own dishonesty, started the same type of "giving". He went into debt, after we helped him clean up his credit, and us telling him. That if he owed someone money, he couldn't give that money away, it was stealing from his creditors. Of course, he didn't listen, he stopped paying his bills again. And the worse thing is he is mad at God! I showed him scriptures that God couldn't have blessed what he was doing. Psalms 37 calls it wicked to borrow and not repay. Psalms 112 talks about the diligent man being blessed in his old age.
Now during this time he still never gave God his tenth. People hear what they want to hear. Nothing could convince him otherwise not even the scriptures.
I told him that God wasn't mocked, that he was not his big Genie in the sky, now that is "whim".
However that doesn't negate God's word. Wisdom is also a part of knowing what Gods will is. As is honesty and obedience. Trish talked about her confession going on for over 20 years. That is intercession and patience!
 
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Trish1947

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Trish talked about her confession going on for over 20 years. That is intercession and patience!
crystalpc, thanks for the comment, but probably it had to do alot with my stubborness, while I was growing, and getting alot of cobwebs out of my life. it took 20 yrs to get there.. LOL... One thing I knew about myself is that I had no patience at all. I have always been that way. So, I guess this was a great test which produced the patience in me. But I just couldn't give up, if I did, then the Lord was going to have to show me that He had another plan. But He didn't so I kept confessing.
 
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crystalpc

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Trish1947 said:
crystalpc, thanks for the comment, but probably it had to do alot with my stubborness, while I was growing, and getting alot of cobwebs out of my life. it took 20 yrs to get there.. LOL... One thing I knew about myself is that I had no patience at all. I have always been that way. So, I guess this was a great test which produced the patience in me. But I just couldn't give up, if I did, then the Lord was going to have to show me that He had another plan. But He didn't so I kept confessing.
Trish,
Gloria Copeland said she confessed her present house for over 40 years! It is like the old saying about going back to school, well don't you know how old I will be when I graduate? How old are you going to be if you don't graduate ;)
lol I took that one to heart, I went back for a degree in computers when I was 52 :rolleyes:
 
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crystalpc

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Trish1947 said:
Great!!! There's one thing about faith, it don't pay one bit of attention to age. LOL..
Amen! I am so glad of that. I was even on the deans list! Quite an achievment for a old "dead" woman wouldn't you say ? I made some believers out of a few who has watched me through all of this, and making more daily!
 
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