• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

General Question for the Site

theend0218

Everything is everything.
Apr 5, 2005
659
59
72
texas
✟1,118.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If I may weigh in on the baptism question:

I think immersion fits with Jewish (and other religions) custom, the descriptions of John's baptism, and the image of our union with Christ in His death and resurrection. However, I think a good case can be made for sprinkling as well both from the OT and from certain phrases in the NT when discussing our salvation.

Believer's baptism fits with the idea of conversion, and of the early practice of the Church as described in the NT. However, almost everyone would have been a convert at first, and thus believers prior to baptism. I think a good case can be made for infant baptism based on the covenant, and based on baptism being something of a sign of the new covenant. In this sense it can be seen in the light of circumcision in the OT. A common reformed position I think.

My conclusion is that when in doubt, the meaning of baptism is more important than the method or timing. If done in faith, I do not see how it matters whether one is immersed or sprinkled. If done by parents of faith within the community of faith, I think it can be a sign of a faith to come when performed on infants. In other words, I think if it mattered a great deal the NT would be more clear about the method and timing.

When believer's baptism was stressed by those who became "Baptists" sprinkling was not unknown among them. The insistence on "believer's baptism" is understandable when many in the Church are believed to be unconverted, but I often think this is but a sign of radical puritanism, as in "we must have a visible Church composed only of believers." I think this flies in the face of Jesus' parables in Matthew 13. If we accept that the Kingdom of God is the power and presence of God that creates the Church as the body of Christ, and the Church is one way the Kingdom of God continues to spread throughout the world then the visible Church must often be a mixed group.

A side note: those who insist on believer's baptism often practice "children's baptism" and it is difficult to believe that many of these children are not in a similar situation as that experienced by infants - marked with the sign of the covenant by believing parents within a community of faith. Too often, too, the insistence on rebaptizing in the Baptist Church tends to make baptism a way of joining "our church" rather than as a sign of faith in Christ. Evangelicalism in general, when practicing alter calls, makes "walking the aisle" the visible sign of conversion thus emptying baptism of its meaning. This simply reinforces the idea that baptism is the way to "join our church."

Sorry for the long post and rant.
 
Upvote 0

CoffeeSwirls

snaps back wash after wash...
Apr 17, 2004
595
37
52
Ankeny, Iowa
Visit site
✟23,437.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Very good points. I wonder if the basis on some of the "rebaptising" has to do with the Landmark Baptists. Just like Calvinists and Hypers, Baptists are all too often lumped into one stew that ends up tasting like a minority group within the category.

Just for the record, I'm not baptist. I was given a believer's baptism, but my parents did not have me sprinkled as a child. To be honest with you, I am just now exploring the joys of covenant theology.
 
Upvote 0

theend0218

Everything is everything.
Apr 5, 2005
659
59
72
texas
✟1,118.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The baptist movement received its name originally because of their emphasis on baptizing again - initially being lumped in with an older heresy called "Anabaptists." From a somewhat modern perspective they are at times discussed as part of the Radical Reformation. What we now know as Baptists (regardless of type) tend to trace their roots back to the separatists movements, especially in England. As a strange example of how these groups worked one can look at John Smyth who baptized himself because he believed he could not find a pure church to unite with. I believe this happened around 1608. Some later joined the Mennonite movement. Most of these groups "poured" rather than immersed, but they did insist on baptizing those who had only been baptized as infants again - it was a form of "believer's baptism" but also, as we can see in one like John Symth, a form of puritanism (wanting a church comprised of "visible saints"). I do not think immersion became the norm until early 1640s. Most of the congregations were in England, and later New England, although there is some connection to Holland, but right now I cannot recall exactly what it was. The English Baptists that "fathered" the New England baptists were Calvinists in all but the sacraments and church government. You can still see this influence in most of the early baptists confessions of faith. I believe the Southern Baptists now have a group called the Founders who are trying to bring the Southern Baptists Convention (or the Churches afflicated with it) back to their Calvinists roots.
 
Upvote 0

AndOne

Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men
Apr 20, 2002
7,477
462
Florida
✟28,628.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Elderone said:
Hi Behe's Boy,

I agree that mode of baptism, or the baptism itself, is not an essential for salvation. I also am partial to A.W. Pink and continually use my John Gill commentary of the whole Bible.

My response should have been something to the effect that if I were looking for some teaching, "my" preference would be to search out the reformed Calvinistic people. If none of those were around a "reformed" teacher of another demonitation would work.

My aversion to "some" Baptists is that they believe Presbyterians carried over the Roman Church form of baptism and aren't very smart as to what the Bible teaches in regard to that, and maybe other things as well.

I do not hold the Roman Church in very high regard but they have some things right. Our previous pastor, who is thoroughly reformed, would say, "It is a sad state of affairs when the Church of Rome has more in common with us, meaning reformed, than the other protestant denominations."

Boy, this rant probably will get me thrown off the forum..........



Yea Roger -

I agree with you on this - for the most part. I think that the similarities between Rome and the Reformed Churches on baptism end at the baby and the water.

I know what you mean about being considered an "idiot" in regards to the PB issue. Maybe I am - but I have to stick to what I think is the most biblical practice.

Dave
 
Upvote 0

Elderone

Senior Member
Mar 31, 2004
823
20
SW PA
✟18,717.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Behe's Boy said:
Yea Roger -

I agree with you on this - for the most part. I think that the similarities between Rome and the Reformed Churches on baptism end at the baby and the water.
Dave


Hi Dave,

OOOOOOOps, I should have been more specific about the Roman Baptism, meaning they had the sprinkling right, not the elimination of original sin or any other un-Biblical items they may have included.

Good catch ! :thumbsup:

Roger
 
Upvote 0