Genealogies

[FirenWater]

I wanted to add this, but my computer is giving me a problem. I am having a hard time with pages, replies and editing for some reason.


Of Melchizidek (His decent) is not counted of the sons of Levi to whom belonged the office of that priesthood. These (at the time Melchizidek met Abraham) were still in the loins of Abraham. The office of that particular priesthood belonged to them. Melchizidek, on the otherhand was before these and of another order altogether, not of the order of Aaron (a levite)

It clarifies this here...


Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:



It continues...

Heb 7:6 But he (Melchizidek) whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.


Likewise the same is true going forward to Jesus Christ (and then looking back) but in respects to the priesthhood itself.


Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.


Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec)

Figured I'd add that into this.

 

[ARBITER01]

Genealogies...why do the apostles say not to give heed to them now?

I think the answer you are looking for is one you already know,..

Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

I highlighted that word because not many bibles translate it that way. Our reality is in Christ, not history, so our focus has to be on reaching the heights He desires for us, to be a witness "of Him" instead of ourselves.

It is easy to miss the tree of life and become a walking library, many make that pitfall, but we have greater things to attain to if we so desire them from Him.

 

[FirenWater]

I think the answer you are looking for is one you already know,..

I highlighted that word because not many bibles translate it that way. Our reality is in Christ, not history, so our focus has to be on reaching the heights He desires for us, to be a witness "of Him" instead of ourselves.

It is easy to miss the tree of life and become a walking library, many make that pitfall, but we have greater things to attain to if we so desire them from Him.

Agreed bro, Christ

A walking library of genealogy trees lately

I was sure curious, because of all the posts (after the flesh) that come into the forum like a storm as of late, its like a plague of the skin

God bless

 

[ARBITER01]

Agreed bro, Christ

A walking library of genealogy trees lately

I was sure curious, because of all the posts (after the flesh) that come into the forum like a storm as of late, its like a plague of the skin

God bless

Yea, and it doesn't help that there is a militant army here seeking to recruit that flesh and mold it themselves rather than allow GOD to have His way through us. Jesus is the potter, but these denominations want to be instead.

 

[theWaris1]

Of Melchizidek (His decent) is not counted of the sons of Levi to whom belonged the office of that priesthood. These (at the time Melchizidek met Abraham) were still in the loins of Abraham. The office of that particular priesthood belonged to them. Melchizidek, on the otherhand was before these and of another order altogether, not of the order of Aaron (a levite)

It clarifies this here...





It continues...

Heb 7:6 But he (Melchizidek) whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

You are correct. That proves it to me. The Laws of had no been created yet in Abrahams day so the high priest had not been listed as kin to Aaron yet and couldn't be. Something I know never thought about.

Murdocks Aramaic translation uses the word "Enrolled" in the genealogies. YLT uses "listed".

They were listing those who were in the family of Levittes, a common practice before the last temple was destroyed. Today no one knows for sure who is kin to Aaron so they can't legally take up a tithe, though many churches collect tithes on false pretenses or lies.

It was also listed after the return from Babylon that Kenites who couldn't prove a line from Aaron had become Scribes. Kenites(Cains seed), Canaanites and Edomites were were forbidden in the congregation of the Lord along with others of Esau.

 

[chris4243]

Genealogies...why do the apostles say not to give heed to them now?

In the old days, people had a habit of making up genealogies. The genealogies of Jesus, for example, don't match to each other nor to the other genealogies in the Old Testament. At the very least, people were left out of it to make multiples of 7. Symbolism was more important than accuracy. Egyptian kings also had such genealogies, often claiming ancestors with lifespans of hundreds of years and such.

---

Also, what's with people saying that Melchisedek was a Levite? Are they saying Abraham was a myth, or that Abraham gave a tithe to one of his descendants?

 

[FirenWater]

The Waris1, Its enough to give you brainfreeze at times isnt it? I know it was alot to wrap my brain around

I used to sit there and reread these things (scratch my head) put it down (pick it up again) lol trying to keep in mind the promise preceeded the law). Or even that the gospel was preached beforehand to Abraham whose seed was of two different women (of which) are the representive of two covenants. In the sense that Ishmeal (born the ordinary way) whereas Isaac come (by promise). Melchizidek preceeds both, whose descent is not counted (there) but even in respects to Isaac, He too is not counted as born the ordinary way (but by promise) not reckoned after the flesh (but used as an example of "born after the Spirit"). Or as called "children of the promise" (counted for seed). Which is one of the few reasons I can sorta see following genealogies as futile now in Jesus Christ (our King of righteousness, or King of peace) and High priest of our confession (but a priest forever after the order of Melchezidek). He was made of the seed of David, even as the Word was made flesh. The conception was of the Holy Ghost, not that which sprang out of a man knowing a woman.

Because theres always this arguing back and forth over the ever virginity of Mary (thing) or in otherwords her fleshly sexlife because Jesus had brothers. Well, you are probrobly familiar with that, but hats going back to the flesh again (which to me) begins glorying in the flesh again (in very much the same way). It wouldnt have mattered in relation to Jesus Christ, because any brothers (even IF they came after) would not have shared one and the same Father when it come to how Jesus was conceived verses how they were conceived. In relation to prophecy there is some importance in relation to Him being conceived of a virgin, or her firstborn, but after that I cant see the revelance of any arguments over it (except to glory in the flesh once again)... as far as I am concerned (but thats just me).

Oh Good Lord maybe I shouldnt have brought that up because I so dont want to "go there"

But I can sorta see the revelance of certain things up to a point but after that (or as Paul says) in relation to knowing Jesus (or any man) after the flesh he interjects a "henceforth" (know we him no more). The sticking point of belonging to Christ is having His Spirit (the promise of my Father) not the right genealogy, which is interesting that it does say they which are actually of the flesh mind the things of the flesh

Theres one to choke on huh?

I wonder if that can be applied to these things, given Pauls confidence (IF he would put any in his flesh) and the fact that he spake of his stock, and tribe and how he could (and impressively so) glory (in the flesh) if he minded it at all? Not sure, something I'll take a look at.

God bless you guys, and hey, thanks for your responses, and being cordial and all, thats rare much appreciated

 

[FirenWater]

In the old days, people had a habit of making up genealogies. The genealogies of Jesus, for example, don't match to each other nor to the other genealogies in the Old Testament. At the very least, people were left out of it to make multiples of 7. Symbolism was more important than accuracy. Egyptian kings also had such genealogies, often claiming ancestors with lifespans of hundreds of years and such.

Even Paul said a Jew is one inwardly, did he mean take a blood test?

---

Also, what's with people saying that Melchisedek was a Levite? Are they saying Abraham was a myth, or that Abraham gave a tithe to one of his descendants?

If you are referring to Waris1's comment to provoke, please dont chris4243 if you are not, you will have to ask they (to whom) you are referring to. But even Hebrews speaks of these things as hard to be uttered and everyone here (including myself) is still learning to come to a correct understanding. I too find them difficult to wrap my brain around especially when I first branch out to touch upon what I am unfamiliar with, or how they apply. I can misapply, and am thankful when another brother or sister, in the Spirit of gentleness and meekness helps me catch something better (or something I have overlooked). If only I can do that more perfectly myself, which I do not always do. When I dont I sure havent helped to create an inviting enviroment for any positive growth, or fellowship.

But as another poster (spiritInTruth) pointed out to me is that the Lord had seven of Jesses sons pass before Samuel (as to whom the Lord had chosen). That was EVERY son of Jesse because David is the seventh, and YET the Lord didnt chose any of them, however David was still chosen. Where we could catch the seventh and eighth in David.

Now someone else could take that and say, its all screwed up, but to me I find it highly fascinating, especially noticing whats spoken of in respects to the seventh day, and another day and what is said in David in respects to the same. Then watching how 8's are used in scripture. That (to me) was like a huge lightbulb gone off sending me in another direction searching it out, even landing me at the 8 souls saved in all (and various other places). Sometimes what others might see as a mistake I sorta see a revelation awaiting me, but I suppose it all depends on each ones approach to scripture. We see examples of it all the time on these boards, well, I know I do.

God bless

 

[FirenWater]

I missed this one!

They were listing those who were in the family of Levittes, a common practice before the last temple was destroyed. Today no one knows for sure who is kin to Aaron so they can't legally take up a tithe, though many churches collect tithes on false pretenses or lies.

There is no similiarity (at all) with the tithes recieved of the sons of Levi with whats "called" a tithe today by comparison

Agreed TheWaris1

God bless you

 

[ananda]

Contrary to what Paul advocates, genealogies are very important to Elohim (aka "God"), cf Gen 5, 1Chron, Mt 1 & Lk 3, etc. Proper identification of Messiah required the careful and accurate recording of genealogies, cf Gen 3:15, Gen 49:10, Isa 11:1, etc.

 

[FirenWater]

Thanks for sharing

 

[theWaris1]

Even Paul said a Jew is one inwardly, did he mean take a blood test?




If you are referring to Waris1's comment to provoke, please dont chris4243 if you are not, you will have to ask they (to whom) you are referring to. But even Hebrews speaks of these things as hard to be uttered and everyone here (including myself) is still learning to come to a correct understanding. I too find them difficult to wrap my brain around especially when I first branch out to touch upon what I am unfamiliar with, or how they apply. I can misapply, and am thankful when another brother or sister, in the Spirit of gentleness and meekness helps me catch something better (or something I have overlooked). If only I can do that more perfectly myself, which I do not always do. When I dont I sure havent helped to create an inviting enviroment for any positive growth, or fellowship.

But as another poster (spiritInTruth) pointed out to me is that the Lord had seven of Jesses sons pass before Samuel (as to whom the Lord had chosen). That was EVERY son of Jesse because David is the seventh, and YET the Lord didnt chose any of them, however David was still chosen. Where we could catch the seventh and eighth in David.

Now someone else could take that and say, its all screwed up, but to me I find it highly fascinating, especially noticing whats spoken of in respects to the seventh day, and another day and what is said in David in respects to the same. Then watching how 8's are used in scripture. That (to me) was like a huge lightbulb gone off sending me in another direction searching it out, even landing me at the 8 souls saved in all (and various other places). Sometimes what others might see as a mistake I sorta see a revelation awaiting me, but I suppose it all depends on each ones approach to scripture. We see examples of it all the time on these boards, well, I know I do.

God bless

You seem to enjoy the depths of scripture yes? The hidden and the mysterious.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4qneG_U2I0

Check out these things I found.
It took months to find all these and I kept finding more and more. It's mind boggling. The number of Perfection is.... Yahawhs favorite? 777

 

[FirenWater]

Thank you theWaris1, Yes, you know...I might not be enamoured by any particular number (personally) but I do find them fascinating. I can catch a few of them threaded in number, figure and time. But not alot of them, once you catch a couple of them you cant help but be a little more curious about them.

I stink at numbers actually, its one of my weakest areas to be honest with you. But I do love to see how they are used throughout scripture when I can catch them aright

God bless you

 

[theWaris1]

Thank you theWaris1, Yes, you know...I might not be enamoured by any particular number (personally) but I do find them fascinating. I can catch a few of them threaded in number, figure and time. But not alot of them, once you catch a couple of them you cant help but be a little more curious about them.

I stink at numbers actually, its one of my weakest areas to be honest with you. But I do love to see how they are used throughout scripture when I can catch them aright

God bless you

The point of the video was that Yahwehs favorite number seems to be seven. And with all the sevens in so many places it just seems to proves the evilution theory is impossible. For evilution is based on random chance

 

[FirenWater]

I gotcha thank you theWaris1

Always a possibility, sure. I suppose I feel a tad uncomfortable assuming His favorite number (of all numbers). So I cant really say.

But I believe Him anyway (even though Im not sure what His favorite number is)

God bless you!

 

[Kirkwhisper]

Well, it's all very interesting anyway.

 

[dcyates]

Nope, haven't got a clue.

I honestly didn't intend to be smartalecky about this, but my point is simply that there are all-too many Christians who are far too individualistic in their reading of Scripture. Just as we all require a scholar who is expert in Greek in order to best translate the NT into our respective languages, we also require -- in the case of the NT -- scholars who are expert in such disciplines as Greco-Roman history, Second Temple Jewish culture, the Aramaic language, socio-rhetorical issues, etc. in order to best interpret and understand the NT text. I think we would agree that God does not intend any of us to be 'Lone Ranger' Christians, but that as members of his Church, we mutually learn from, edify, and encourage one another in community. Thus, neither are we to be 'Lone Ranger' Christians when it comes to our reading of God's word.

 

[dcyates]

But , in the beginning, God created heaven and earth, I can tell you what that means, and the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all, I can tell you what that means and everything in between those line, I can tell you what it means.

You can tell me the meaning of every single verse of Scripture?!? I'm not sure I understand. Do you go to church? Do you listen to the sermons? Do you not learn anything from them, because you know the meaning of everything in the Bible already?
Why does Mark 6.48 tell us that Jesus "intended to pass by" his disciples, when in the same verse we're told that Jesus went out and walked on the sea because he saw them "straining at the oars, for the wind was against them"? Why would he then intend to "pass by them"?
Why does Paul tell the Romans that never taking their own revenge against an enemy is like "heaping burning coals on his head" (Rom 12.19-20; cf. Prov 25.21-22)?
What is the significance of Paul telling the Philippians that "our citizenship is in heaven" (3.20)?