Gender Neutral Restrooms

[Lisa0315]

There was a thread in OBOB about this but since I am not Catholic, I could not argue there. So, I am starting another thread.

There is a movement to make public restrooms gender neutral. IOW, there will no longer be a Ladies and Mens Room. They simply will be for all folks, period.

Now, I am not completely agains this idea but I am a bit wary of it for one reason. As a business person, I sometimes have to travel late at night. If I need to stop at a restroom, I realize that gender specific is not going to keep me from getting raped, or whatever. However, do you think having one bathroom for both sexes might increase the chances for violence against women? Why or why not?

Lisa

 

[AetheriusLamia]

I think over time it will decrease the violence against women. I believe one reason women are seen as objects is simply because the two sexes are separated from one another at such an early age. You form the weirdest ideas about things when you're not in close contact with them.

If you've shared bathrooms with women since you were five, I think you have a higher chance of realizing they're people just like you. This idea is not new; it's summarized quite nicely on this political t-shirt.

 

[Lisa0315]

I think over time it will decrease the violence against women. I believe one reason women are seen as objects is simply because the two sexes are separated from one another at such an early age. You form the weirdest ideas about things when you're not in close contact with them.

If you've shared bathrooms with women since you were five, I think you have a higher chance of realizing they're people just like you. This idea is not new; it's summarized quite nicely on this political t-shirt.

Could you provide some scientific data? The T-shirt slogan is okay, but I do not wish to risk my safety or that of my daughters on it.

Lisa

 

[AetheriusLamia]

I already provided a statement in the previous thread from someone actively working in the field saying isolation was more important than location ... so, you can research just as well as I can. (Honestly, this issue is not currently a priority for me, so I won't be researching it.)

I must also say that as a feminist, if you believe men and women are equal, then you must conclude that "separate but equal" isn't adequate, just as it isn't adequate for whites and blacks if whites and blacks are equal. Of course, if you don't think men and women are equal, then this argument doesn't apply.

As a Christian, I tend to think the Bible teaches that men and women are complementary; one can't say they're "equal" because they have different strengths and weaknesses (supposedly) which are (supposedly) completed by each other. As far as separation goes, I see nothing in the Bible indicating that men and women are to share different restrooms or dressing rooms. In fact, just the contrary: we're to all go around naked. Problem being that with sin in the world, we've mucked it up. It appears that in an ideal world, we would all be naked, and thus would use the same restrooms. And if we're to strive through Jesus for perfection, then one stepping-stone at a time, we should be striving for the same restrooms.

 

[Everlasting33]

Personally, I would feel very uncomfortable with a gender neutral bathroom. I would be paranoid that a man was trying to look in my stall or something. Of course, there is still the threat of rape...probably rare...but it still makes me a little paranoid.

 

[Mling]

I'm pretty sure that most places that do this have gender neutral restrooms *in addition* to the segregated restrooms.

 

[Bombila]

Lots of smaller businesses and places like rural gas stations have always only had one bathroom for men and women. The difference is that it is a room with a door, not an open area with flimsy stalls and/or urinals. I've noticed quite a few places now include a third bathroom as a 'family' facility, usually it is equipped with a change table for babys, and enough room to turn strollers around, etc. It is meant to be used by women or men who are with small children.

 

[stan1980]

I've only seen newer bars and nightclubs fitted with gender neutral restrooms, and since these places tend to be busy, and normally have attendants and/or security in the vicinity I don't really see a problem.

I've never yet seen any motorway services fitted with these restrooms, nor did I realise there was any particular movement towards them, so again I'm not sure what the problem is.

 

[icy_crusader]

I think we are all missing the big questions here.

Will this gender neutral bathroom have a couch?
What color will the tile be?
How does this effect the men's "one stall between" rule?
Will there still be urinals?

On a more serious note, wouldn't this actually increase the rate of rape? Placing men and women in so close of proximity of each in such a vulnerable position while using a toilet seems a bit dangerous, especially in those late night gas stations. Then, there will always be the issue of modesty. But, MLing may be right as to having three restrooms, even if that does seem less money efficient.

 

[Verv]

Many restrooms in Korea are gender neutral due to just space requirements.

More than once drunken girls have not locked the door and I literally have walked in on them doing their business. Needless to say, slightly uncomfortable experience for us both -- especially when you have some giant, heavily tattoo'd foreigner poking his head in on you.

I am not morally opposed to anything like this... Whatever.

I do not think we should have to cater to people who view themselves as gender neutral and really, let people do whatever they want with the bathrooms that they manage in their private businesses.

I think over time it will decrease the violence against women. I believe one reason women are seen as objects is simply because the two sexes are separated from one another at such an early age. You form the weirdest ideas about things when you're not in close contact with them.

If you've shared bathrooms with women since you were five, I think you have a higher chance of realizing they're people just like you. This idea is not new; it's summarized quite nicely on this political t-shirt.

I see what you are saying -- I think that women have dropped the ball on their own liberation.

Now that they can dress however they want it seems they are mostly interested in dressing sexy, e.g. appearing as objects. But that is exactly what men are doing, now, dressing for sexiness.

Humans dropped the ball on liberation and at the end of the day we are still the same pieces of meat we were before.

 

[WatersMoon110]

I fail to see how this would increase rapes. It isn't as though men will suddenly realize that women are vulnerable while going to the bathroom because they happen to be using the same restroom. Men who want to rape women are perfectly capable of entering the women's room unnoticed if that is their plan. In fact, since in a unisex restroom there would be a possibility of finding a man in the stall instead of a woman, it seems to me that women's restrooms make women more vulnerable than unisex restrooms!

However, the only unisex restrooms I've ever seen are the single toilet rooms (with locks on the door and no stalls) in small gas stations and small stores; and the "family restrooms" in movie theaters and large stores. Personally, since I have a "shy bladder" I prefer these restrooms to the single-sex/multi-stall kind.

 

[stan1980]

I thought we were all getting raped at the gas stations nowadays.

 

[icy_crusader]

My point is the proximity of the man to the woman now and the non-question of his presence in the secluded bathroom. The main issue is still the modesty, I think. Which is ironic considering the turn of our society.

 

[Lynden1000]

I am not morally/ethically opposed to the idea, but it certainly wouldn't be to my liking. I am neurotic about privacy, and I have a hard enough time going to the bathroom while another woman is taking a dump twelve inches to my left. I'd really be weirded out if men and boys were around. It's not really an ethical thing, just outside my personal comfort zone.

I'd also worry about school-age boys and teen boys coming in to peek at girls. (and not to be sexist, girls peeking at boys).

 

[Verv]

The amount of rapes could increase on a minimal level. Drunk, impulsive rapes might occur more but already it is clear that others who plan rape would have no problem going into a woman's bathroom and waiting it out as is.

Besides, most rape actually takes place between people who know one another.

 

[Lisa0315]

I thought we were all getting raped at the gas stations nowadays.

How true!!!!

 

[Bombila]

......

I see what you are saying -- I think that women have dropped the ball on their own liberation.

Now that they can dress however they want it seems they are mostly interested in dressing sexy, e.g. appearing as objects. But that is exactly what men are doing, now, dressing for sexiness.

Humans dropped the ball on liberation and at the end of the day we are still the same pieces of meat we were before.

Young women and young men are often in the business of attracting a partner, therefore they dress to be visually appealing to the opposite sex. Their goal is not to be seen as 'objects'. If you view them as 'objects' because of the way they dress, that is your problem, not theirs, and you should perhaps start consciously trying to think of women, regardless of how sexy you may find their outfits, as persons, first and foremost.

This is not a particularly modern approach to seeking partners. If you review the history of fashion over the past seven or eight centuries, you will find eras where it was fashionable to wear dresses with necklines that revealed the nipples, where men enhanced their masculinity by wearing enormous and often fancifully decorated codpieces and tights, where deep cleavage was combined with floaty skirts liable to being lifted easily by a light breeze, where men's pants were so tight as to reveal every muscle, where ladies bottoms were exaggerated by the use of bustles, and so on.

I sometimes find your expressed combination of passionate Christianity and contempt for real people disturbingly at odds.

 

[Verv]

Young women and young men are often in the business of attracting a partner, therefore they dress to be visually appealing to the opposite sex. Their goal is not to be seen as 'objects'. If you view them as 'objects' because of the way they dress, that is your problem, not theirs, and you should perhaps start consciously trying to think of women, regardless of how sexy you may find their outfits, as persons, first and foremost.

This is not a particularly modern approach to seeking partners. If you review the history of fashion over the past seven or eight centuries, you will find eras where it was fashionable to wear dresses with necklines that revealed the nipples, where men enhanced their masculinity by wearing enormous and often fancifully decorated codpieces and tights, where deep cleavage was combined with floaty skirts liable to being lifted easily by a light breeze, where men's pants were so tight as to reveal every muscle, where ladies bottoms were exaggerated by the use of bustles, and so on.

I sometimes find your expressed combination of passionate Christianity and contempt for real people disturbingly at odds.

Christianity believes all men are sinners and need God. It is really true when you think of it and think of the very bestial desires of men -- we commit the sin of pride and sexual sins in our minds daily, not to mention sins of violence and sins of luxury. It is natural.

And your historic analysis is 100% correct and I think this essentially hints that humans have always been so overtly sexual. We needed Christ at every corner of the way.

One of the reasons why I often view these women and men as superficial for showing off their bodies is because of the simple reason that rarely do I meet people who dress sexily that impress me on intellectual levels. Usually the folks who are 'intelligent' dress more modestly or dress like punk rockers or what have you and I have always found that crowd to be full of wise folks.

We all want to attract others but in the end it should be done for our personalities and our character and not our appearance. I think you agree on that one.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Like I said in the other forum, I don't want to go walking into a public can and seeing a dude's willy wonka hanging out. I don't want my 8 & 9 year old daughters walking into a public can and seeing a dude's willy wonka hanging.

 

[Trevorocity]

Like I said in the other forum, I don't want to go walking into a public can and seeing a dude's willy wonka hanging out. I don't want my 8 & 9 year old daughters walking into a public can and seeing a dude's willy wonka hanging.

I take it you have never been in a men's room before. Most men are so pee shy they very nearly climb into the urinal lest anyone see their manhood.

I'm not. I can pee in front of a live studio audience if I have to but there are usually dividers in between urinals. And if not men typically don't wave their genitals around while they use the facilities. That would be messy and would ruin your shoes anyway.