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Gen 6:2-4

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morant

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Of course I found this in the "HeadLong thur the Old Testament!!! " thread. I opted not to post in there but rather to start an independant thread to discuss these verses a little more in depth.

I find this to be a stumbling block of sorts for new believers.....suppose you are introduced to Christ, told who he is and what he did for you, then suppose you dive into your bible, 6 or so pages in you find out about these other "sons of God"......what is one to think? You can discuss it with several different preachers and get several different answers....

I'm not interested in an arguement, or one of you trying to prove your view of these verses over someone else.
What I am interested in is your own interpretations of what these verses actually mean.....Who are these "sons of God"?

If this has been discussed indepth here before and I've missed it....I'm sorry, I'm new, forgive me
 

talitha

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Looking at the different verses which use the phrase "sons of God," it would seem that the use of the term "son" here means something other than male biological offspring.
Job 1:6 -- Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.

In this reference wouldn't you agree that the "sons" in question are angels?
Also in this one:
The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

So this is an image used to refer to angels in their like character to God's -- not alike in authority, of course, but in holiness. the problem here is that these particular sons are not acting holy at all, are they? They must be fallen angels......

does that help you?
blessings
tal
 
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morant

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StAnselm said:
Whereas I take the "Sons of God" to be those who were of the covenant line - this episode represents an intermingling of the "seed of the woman" and the "seed of the servant".

The godly seed, however, were meant to be separate. Christians should not marry unbelievers.

Thank you StAnselm, I have heard the basis of this view many times and the decendants of Seth are indeed one possible explination, or the outright answer(depending on who you talk to)

however, you are a little skewed on your view of it and it is of the upmost importance to me for you to realize that I'm not picking on you or correcting you for any reason other than to enlighten you and add to your knowledge so forgive me if I offend but this is where your opinion is incorrect.....
StAnselm said:
The godly seed, however, were meant to be separate. Christians should not marry unbelievers.
......The ppl in question here beit the decendants of Seth or anyone else in the world at this time were not infact Christians at all, for there had been no Christ at this time, and, as for Christians marrying unbelievers, Paul says otherwise in 1Corinthians 7:12-16
thank you again for your input.


icxn.....very interesting point about the Septuagint.....I will have to reserch this a bit as I am unfimilar with the Septuagint as a whole, thanks, you have given me more yet to read :) yay
 
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StAnselm

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morant said:
anyone else in the world at this time were not infact Christians at all, for there had been no Christ at this time, and, as for Christians marrying unbelievers, Paul says otherwise in 1Corinthians 7:12-16

Well, thanks for your gracious reply, morant. I was, as a matter of fact, jumping straight into an application of the story.

I think, though, that there is a sense in which we can talk about Old Testament Christians. The OT saints still had faith in Christ - but it was the Christ who was to come. This is demonstrated in numerous passages in the New Testament. For example, in John 8:56, Jesus says that Abraham rejoiced that he would see his day. Christ was around in Old Testament times:

All drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.(1 Corinthians 10:4)

I fear also that you have got the interpretation of 1 Cor 7:12-16 exactly wrong. Those verses are not talking about getting married, but what to do if you already have a spouse who isn't a Christian. In verse 39 he says that if Christian women marry they should only do so "in the Lord".
 
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talitha

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I understand where you are coming from, StAnselm; I believe that the Old Testament is more accurately understood when looking through a New Testament lens, and also your comments in your first post sounded very much like rabbinical teaching which tends to fascinate me.... Thanks for posting....

blessings
tal
 
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Blank123

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its interesting to note, I just did a quick search and there are only four mentions of the sons of God in the OT:

[bible]Genesis 6:2-4[/bible]
[bible]Job 1:6[/bible]
[bible]Job 2:1[/bible]
[bible]Job 38:4-7[/bible]

These are obviously referring to creature that were around at the time of creation, yet they seem to be evil judging by the verses in Genesis.

yet in the NT sons of God clearly refer to believers

[bible]John1:12[/bible]
[bible]Romans 8:14[/bible]
[bible]1 John 3:1-2[/bible]


I'm not sure if this added anything to the thread, I just thought that the division of the def for this term between the OT and NT was interesting :angel:
 
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stryper36

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Genesis 6:1-4
“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, [2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. [3] And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. [4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”


Let’s look at Genesis 6:1-4 and try to determine who the “sons of God” are. God’s law of reproduction from the beginning has been everything after his own kind. It was not possible then, that giants could be produced by men and women of ordinary size. It took the supernatural element, the purpose and power of Satan and his angels to make offspring of such extra size within the human species. It is unscriptural but unhistorical to teach that giants came from ordinary men and women. If the “sons of God” were ordinary men in the same sense that the daughters of men were ordinary women, then we must conclude 4 things:
1) That ungodly women have the power to produce such monsters if married to ungodly men, or
2) That godly men have the power to produce giants when married to ungodly women.
3) That a mixture of godliness and wickedness produces giants.
4) That extreme wickedness on the part of either parent will produce giant offspring.

All 4 conclusions are wrong however, as proved every day by the marriages of unconverted persons with the converted and the producing of offspring through the union of a wicked parent and a godly one. The “sons of God” could not have been the sons of Seth or other godly men for the following reasons:

1) Such marriages between godly sons and ungodly daughters could not have been during the last 600 years before the flood, because Noah was the only son of God by righteousness during this time. (Gen. 6:8,9; 7:1; 2 Pet. 2:4,5).
2) Angels cannot co-habitate with men. This requires knowledge of angels, which we do not possess. Especially since we do not know enough of “fallen angels” who did not keep their first estate.
3) The “daughters of men” cannot be limited to mean only the daughters of Cain. In the 1,656 years before the flood, there must have been 150,000,000 to 500,000,000 people. “sons of God” and “daughters of men indicate 2 different kinds – one the product of God, the other the product of man.

Since it cannot possibly be that the “sons of God” who married the daughters of men and produced giants by them, were the sons of Seth or godly men marrying ungodly women, then it must be that the “sons of God” of Gen. 6 were fallen angels. The fact that giants or beings of abnormal size in body, have lived on earth is one of the most clearly stated truths in Scripture. Being of great stature, some of them even had 6 fingers on each hand and 6 toes on each foot and carried spears weighing from 10 – 25 lbs. (2 Sam. 21:16-22; 1 Chron. 20:4-8). The expression “sons of God”(Bene-ha-Elohim) is found only 4 times in the Old Testament and every time it is used of angels.

Job 1:6
“Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.”


Job 2:1
“Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.”


Job 38:7
“When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”


Daniel 3:25
“He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”


The Job passages are especially significant since scholars are agreed that Job is the oldest Book of the Bible. The precedent would then be that the “sons of God” were “angels.”
Some translations, as the Septuagint, and others read “angels of God” in Gen. 6:1-4, which is the only idea that will harmonize with facts in the passage itself, as well as many other passages. The Codex Alexandria reads it “angels.” Augustine says, “angels.” The Jews also thought that the sons of God were angels. The Jewish Encyclopedia still maintains that position. Philo did. Josephus, in Antiquities of the Jews (Book 1 Chap. 3 sect. 1). “For many angels of God accompanied with women and begat sons that proved unjust and despisers of all that was good on account of confidence they had in their own strength, for tradition is that these men did what resembled that acts of those whom Greeks called giants.”
For the most part Early Christian Commentators held this view such “Justin Martyr, Clement of Rome, Tertullian, and Ireneus. It was also the view of Luther (the reformer), Genenius (the Hebrew scholar), Rosenmuler, Ewald, Delitizsch, Kurtz, Hengstengerg, Alfrod, Stier, Hofmann and Kitto.
The Book of Enoch 6:2 advocated this view; likewise, the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs.
Both Testaments of the Bible teach that some angels committed sex sins and lived contrary to nature. Gen. 6:1-4 gives the history of such sinning.

2 Peter 2:4
“For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment”


Jude 1:6-7
“And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. [7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”


So what does these verses tell us:
1) The angels sinned
2) They kept not their first estate
3) They left their own habitation
4) Like Sodom and Gomorrah, they gave themselves over to fornication.
5) They went after strange (other or different) flesh.
6) They were set forth as an example
7) They suffered vengeance of eternal fire
8) They are in chains in Tartarus (in darkness).
9) Not all fallen angels are in chains. Some are still free to roam.

Ephes. 6:12
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”


Josephus says of these giants. They “had bodies so large and countenance so entirely different from other men that they were surprising to the sight and terrible to the hearing. The bones of these men are still shown to this day, and unlike to any credible relations to other men.” (Antiquities, Book 5 Chap. 2 Section 3).
The giants’ offspring accounts for the mythology and idolatry of the super humans the ancients worshipped. As Josephus suggests, that were demi-gods with super human strength that caused them to become renowned and worshipped as gods. The fornication and perversion of the Gentile gods is well known. The myth was based on a fact, as most myths are. Mythology is usually history badly garbled.
The term “giants” or “Nephilim” is used in Numbers 13:33.

Numbers 13:32,33
“And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.And there we saw the giants[(5303)Nephilim], the sons of Anak, which come of the giants[(1368) “gibbor” mighty ones]: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”


The root of the word “Nephilim” is “to fall upon”. They are the fallen ones, or apostates. It is plainly stated that Noah was perfect in his generations (pedigree). The rest of mankind had corrupted themselves by intermarriage. In verse 4, it is admitted that this occurred at another time when the sons of God came to the daughters of men. We see this in Gen. 6:4 and the second occurrence was no doubt when the Canaanites had “Nephilim” among them. Even the children were to be killed. Why were they to destroy these people? They would have perverted the whole of humanity. If they were all destroyed in the flood, how could the spies see them? It is because it happened again. They were in Canaan when Abraham got there, waiting for him.

Genesis 12:6
“And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.”
The giants are known in Scripture under seven names, depending on which tongue you spoke. They are:
Anakims (long necks), Rephaims (invigorating), Emims (terrors or frightners), Horims (cave dwellers), Zamzummims (evil plotters), Zuzims (roving creatures), and Avims (perverters), depending on which tongue you spoke.

Deut. 2:11,20
“Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims.
(That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;”
The giants were mostly destroyed, except for Og whose bedstead was 13.5 feet long and 6 feet wide.

Deut. 3:11
“For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.”


Satan did one of two things:
A) He perverted mankind by having angel’s cohabitate with humans, thus ridding himself of the possibility of a human child destroying him as God had promised.
B) He tried to cause the whole world to become so corrupt in wickedness that no godly children would be born who could destroy him as God had promised.

In either event, Noah was perfect (without blemish) in his pedigree or origins. His lineage was free of the pollution of these mixed marriages. As a result, he found grace in the eyes of the Lord. When God saw that man’s thoughts were only evil continuously, that all flesh was corrupt, and that the earth was filled with violence, he saw the necessity of destroying the world by a flood. It came upon the earth and destroyed the evil, perverted men. By faith, Noah and his family were saved to preserve mankind, and to bring forth the Messiah. Noah did indeed prove to be a “comfort”.
 
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icxn

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Some notes on those Masoretic verses:

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God (Septuagint: angels of God) came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.


Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God (Septuagint: angels of God) came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.


Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(Septuagint: When the stars were made, all my angels praised me with a loud voice) Notice how this version makes more sense... do the stars sing?

icxn
 
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StAnselm

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icxn said:
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(Septuagint: When the stars were made, all my angels praised me with a loud voice) Notice how this version makes more sense... do the stars sing?

That's the problem with the Septuagint - everything has to make sense. It loves tidying up the text!
 
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God Child

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Well as i see it the son's of God mentioned there, just before the flood, were fallen angels/ "spirits". When these came unto the daughters of men, for some reason men got physically bigger and more rebellious toward God. well angels as shown in the bible are taller/smater than humans, "fallen angels" seems to point toward the word rebellion.
 
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