Gay Relationship

[Varlin]

I've been a believer all my life, but now something has happened. I have met this wonderful man, and now, after being very close friends for a long time, we've decided that we want to take our relationship to the next level. I think I might even want to marry him.

But I want to be a good christian! Can I love this man and still be loved in the eyes of the lord? Please, I need advice!

 

[The Nihilist]

oh goodness gracious. I don't think this is the forum you're looking for, buddy. There's rules here against talking about homosexuality or promoting it, so I tell you what. Why don't you say instead that you've met a woman who eats shellfish, and ask if God can still love you. Because the bible opposes both homosexuality and eating shellfish, the answers you get on that should easily translate into your actual situation.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

And the atheists here claim they don't cause trouble. >.>

 

[znr]

I've been a believer all my life, but now something has happened. I have met this wonderful man, and now, after being very close friends for a long time, we've decided that we want to take our relationship to the next level. I think I might even want to marry him.

But I want to be a good christian! Can I love this man and still be loved in the eyes of the lord? Please, I need advice!

You might want to ask this question in a busier forum, like the Advice forum. I see that you're not getting any replies here. There are several people in that section of this site who are compassionate and will talk with you. Just be prepared to get a very...very wide variety of answers.

 

[K9_Trainer]

And the atheists here claim they don't cause trouble. >.>

lol not nearly as much trouble as Christians do when they passionately disagree over something

To the OP, I would go seek advice from a different section. This one's not active and it's probably against the rules anyway.

 

[iLogos]

God will love you no matter what. If we being mortal can still love our children no matter what they do, how much greater is God's love.

But your not going to like my advise.

I give you the same advise I would give a heterosexual.

No sex before marriage!

 

[LinkH]

I've been a believer all my life, but now something has happened. I have met this wonderful man, and now, after being very close friends for a long time, we've decided that we want to take our relationship to the next level. I think I might even want to marry him.

But I want to be a good christian! Can I love this man and still be loved in the eyes of the lord? Please, I need advice!

Are you a man? Based on the title, I will assume you are.

Of course, you can love a man if you love him the right way. The Bible says to love your neighbor as yourself. We are all supposed to love Jesus.

But you aren't supposed to give in to or make a place for sexual lust toward a man. The King James translation of book of Romans calls this 'vile affections'.

It gets confusing. The Bible says love your neighbor. But in our culture, the word 'love' is used to describe something that hits you that is uncontrollable that you must surrender to. The symbol is cupid's arrow hitting you. The movies teach that you are supposed to give in to this love.

But God's love is different. The agape love of God mentioned in I Corinthians 13 does not delight in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth. Homosexual 'love' falls short on both counts.

If you really loved this man with the type of agape God wants you to have, then you would not want to see him fall into sin. That means, you would not want to encourage 'vile affections' in him for other men, including yourself. You would not want to 'marry' him and engage in sexual activities with him, because I Corinthians 6 tells us that they that do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. If you love someone, would you really want to help them along the path to Hell? It sounds like you are getting some kind of emotional satisfaction out of this, and you are being tempted to--selfishly and unlovingly--continue getting this emotional satisfaction even if it hurts yourself and this other person.

That is not love.

If you have romantic feelings for someone, that does not mean the romantic feelings are God-approved. You shouldn't blame God for your feelings. You decided what to think and where to devote your mind's attention. You should bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. To allow your mind to wander and think about romantic relationships with someone with whom it would be a sin to participate in such a relationship is not godly.

Some men have these kinds of feelings because they didn't have much of a relationship with their dad. Maybe the wasn't there. Maybe the son was an artistic child, and felt rejected by his father because he wasn't athletic or 'manly' enough for his dad. Then he begins to eroticise masculinity.

Whatever the case, the Lord can heal your mind and soul, but you need to flee from sexual temptation. Run away from it. It may hurt to break off contact with this man and seek help from perhaps a godly pastor or some other godly counsellor, but it is not loving to stay around him and create a situation where both you and he are tempted to sin.

 

[LinkH]

oh goodness gracious. I don't think this is the forum you're looking for, buddy. There's rules here against talking about homosexuality or promoting it, so I tell you what. Why don't you say instead that you've met a woman who eats shellfish, and ask if God can still love you. Because the bible opposes both homosexuality and eating shellfish, the answers you get on that should easily translate into your actual situation.

The Bible only tells Israelites not to eat shellfish, listed among laws which would make Israel distinct from the nations. Homosexual relations are sinful for both Jews and Gentiles. God drove Gentiles out of the land for such things.

 

[The Nihilist]

The Bible only tells Israelites not to eat shellfish, listed among laws which would make Israel distinct from the nations. Homosexual relations are sinful for both Jews and Gentiles.

The Noachide law forbids sexual immorality, which I don't believe is especially clearly defined. Maybe you're right though, I probably should have said that the lady in question eats the flesh of alive animals.

God drove Gentiles out of the land for such things.

Nope.

Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. (Ezekiel 16:49-50).

 

[LinkH]

Nope.

Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. (Ezekiel 16:49-50).

I was referring to the passage that specifically deals with homosexual sin in the Old Testament. The New Testament teaches Christians that such things are sinful, too.

Leviticus 18
22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. 24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.
(NIV)

 

[The Nihilist]

I was referring to the passage that specifically deals with homosexual sin in the Old Testament. The New Testament teaches Christians that such things are sinful, too.

Leviticus 18
22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. 24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.
(NIV)

Oh. Then the shellfish should work fine. As Paul points out, the point of the law is to reveal humanity's sinful nature to itself. Those not under the law are not guilty under the law, but they are still guilty or dead or whatever vocabulary Paul uses. Therefore, you're incorrect to say that the gentiles are also bound by these laws, as only the chosen people were under them. Additionally, in the NT, the apostles require that the gentiles only follow the noachide law, which is consistent with the ot.

 

[LinkH]

Oh. Then the shellfish should work fine. As Paul points out, the point of the law is to reveal humanity's sinful nature to itself. Those not under the law are not guilty under the law, but they are still guilty or dead or whatever vocabulary Paul uses. Therefore, you're incorrect to say that the gentiles are also bound by these laws, as only the chosen people were under them. Additionally, in the NT, the apostles require that the gentiles only follow the noachide law, which is consistent with the ot.

Acts 15 was written before non-Christian Judaism came up with the 7 Noachide principles, though there are some similarities and the thought process seems similar.

Paul also writes, 'that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us.'

Btw, this is getting off topic. It should probably go somewhere else besides this forum.

 

[KittyVel]

I've been a believer all my life, but now something has happened. I have met this wonderful man, and now, after being very close friends for a long time, we've decided that we want to take our relationship to the next level. I think I might even want to marry him.

But I want to be a good christian! Can I love this man and still be loved in the eyes of the lord? Please, I need advice!

Sweetheart, I think that if you truly love God and God truly loves you, and if homosexuality really is a sin (though that's not what I believe at all), and if God forgives the sins of His followers, you can be gay and still be a good Christian. I know many gay people who are Christians. My family, all Christians, accept homosexuality with open arms, and believe it "un-Christian" to condemn homosexuals to Hell and tell them that they're wrong or confused.

If you need support, message me any time you like. I'd love to help you through this in any way I can. *hugs*

 

[LinkH]

Sweetheart, I think that if you truly love God and God truly loves you, and if homosexuality really is a sin (though that's not what I believe at all), and if God forgives the sins of His followers, you can be gay and still be a good Christian. I know many gay people who are Christians. My family, all Christians, accept homosexuality with open arms, and believe it "un-Christian" to condemn homosexuals to Hell and tell them that they're wrong or confused.

If you need support, message me any time you like. I'd love to help you through this in any way I can. *hugs*

The Bible says that God is not mocked. You can't live a homosexual lifestyle and be a 'good Christian' at the same time. You could do so and be a hyppocrite--if you were pretending to be a good Christian while being an homosexual. Romans 6 warns us that 'man-bed-ers' and 'softies' will not inherit the kingdom of God. Pitchers and catchers both are guilty.

 

[KittyVel]

The Bible says that God is not mocked. You can't live a homosexual lifestyle and be a 'good Christian' at the same time. You could do so and be a hyppocrite--if you were pretending to be a good Christian while being an homosexual. Romans 6 warns us that 'man-bed-ers' and 'softies' will not inherit the kingdom of God. Pitchers and catchers both are guilty.

But why is it that so many other sins are forgiven, sins that are easily avoided, yet homosexuality, which is by no means a choice, isn't? People can stop themselves from stealing, lying, killing, and raping, but they can't stop being homosexual. Why condemn to hell the people who are accepting who they are and simply loving another?

 

[Verve]

But why is it that so many other sins are forgiven, sins that are easily avoided, yet homosexuality, which is by no means a choice, isn't? People can stop themselves from stealing, lying, killing, and raping, but they can't stop being homosexual. Why condemn to hell the people who are accepting who they are and simply loving another?

Homosexual actions are a choice as are heterosexual actions.

"as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:14-16)

We are born with sinful natures due to the fall.
We lie, cheat and steal because it is part of the sinful nature we are born into. Homosexual lusts and behaviors falls under that category.

 

[KittyVel]

Homosexual actions are a choice as are heterosexual actions.

"as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:14-16)

We are born with sinful natures due to the fall.
We lie, cheat and steal because it is part of the sinful nature we are born into. Homosexual lusts and behaviors falls under that category.

Those other things hurt other people, though. A man loving another man harms no one. Why should love be condemned? Being homosexual is not a choice. Sexuality is determined by genetics and prenatal conditions. Since this is the case, wouldn't God have created homosexuals that way? If so, why condemn them for being the way He created them?

 

[The Nihilist]

The Bible says that God is not mocked.

Clearly you've never been to reddit

 

[dayhiker]

KittyVel - I'm with you on this one.

 

[GrumpGrump]

I've been a believer all my life, but now something has happened. I have met this wonderful man, and now, after being very close friends for a long time, we've decided that we want to take our relationship to the next level. I think I might even want to marry him.

But I want to be a good christian! Can I love this man and still be loved in the eyes of the lord? Please, I need advice!

I'm going to agree with many of the previous posters-- this probably isn't the forum for this, since discussion (or "promotion") of homosexuality is prohibited. There's a filter already in place that will prevent you from receiving certain answers. Many of these posts (and maybe this thread) are already at risk of disappearing since they don't immediately tell you that you're a dirty sinner, etc.

Homosexual actions are a choice as are heterosexual actions.

We are born with sinful natures due to the fall.
We lie, cheat and steal because it is part of the sinful nature we are born into. Homosexual lusts and behaviors falls under that category.

Those other things hurt other people, though. A man loving another man harms no one. Why should love be condemned? Being homosexual is not a choice. Sexuality is determined by genetics and prenatal conditions. Since this is the case, wouldn't God have created homosexuals that way? If so, why condemn them for being the way He created them?

Homosexual and heterosexual actions within a Christian belief system are entirely different things. Heterosexual Christians have the option of eventually marrying to slake their lust and may then have sex without being called abominations. For someone who is homosexual and also a Christian, there is no promise of eventually being able to have a sanctioned, permissible love-- it is only a lifetime of self-denial, self-castigation, and being called an unnatural abomination by those within one's faith.

I got my BA in Neuroscience at one of the top programs in the U.S.-- and let me tell you, the prevailing opinion in the field is that (like KittyVel said) homosexuality is biological, determined in large part by genetics and prenatal conditions (hormone levels in utero, etc.). And it doesn't change. "Conversion therapy" does not work.

I don't have a large stake in what Christianity finds acceptable (except when I consider the mental health and well-being of my gay friends who are Christian). I'm not a believer and I suppose that a religion can exclude whoever it wants from the ranks of the saved. But if you're going to be a Christian, you have to own up to the fact that condemning gay people to hell is qualitatively different than asking a heterosexual to restrain his/her urges long enough to get married. You're asking gay people to deny an immutable, biological part of themselves for their whole lives (knowing that if they act on an urge, they'll be called an abomination), never allowed to have a loving, romantic partnership lest they be condemned. That's a life without husband or wife, without children, and without the comfort of sharing the daily happenings (as well as the major tragedies of life) with their best friend. Sounds like a pretty lonely fate for someone to suffer just because they were born with a certain neuronal wiring.

And it doesn't make sense to me that a God of love would condemn His creations to such loneliness for things beyond their control, particularly since they harm no one with their love. I'm on KittyVel's boat here.