Gap theory

[fingerttip]

Hey everybody,
I am a dispensationlist, and believe in a pre trib rapture, and Paul is my apostle during this age of grace. This is my second post ever! haha

Im not sure if this is the best place for the question, but I wanted the opinion of fellow believers who understand the difference between law and grace.

Do you believe there is a "gap" in time of unknown length between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. Some believe this explains the fossil record, and is also the time period where satan rebelled against God, which explains the state of the earth in verse 2.

Thanks for the replies,
Matt

 

[JDS]

Hey everybody,
I am a dispensationlist, and believe in a pre trib rapture, and Paul is my apostle during this age of grace. This is my second post ever! haha

Im not sure if this is the best place for the question, but I wanted the opinion of fellow believers who understand the difference between law and grace.

Do you believe there is a "gap" in time of unknown length between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. Some believe this explains the fossil record, and is also the time period where satan rebelled against God, which explains the state of the earth in verse 2.

Thanks for the replies,
Matt

Fingertip,


There is no gap! That proposition opens up far more problems than it solves. Compare these following verses and ask yourself how you would reconcile them if there were a gap.

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

There are 33 verses througout the bible that uses both words, earth and world as synonyms. The word earth in Ge 1:1 means the world. We learn that by reading those 33 passages. Now, this is the way God writes when he wants to explain himself. He leaves no doubt, but it takes a little wok to learn it. I will give 3 or 4 examples.

Job 37:12 And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth.

Ps 24:1 A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD’S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
Ps 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Ps 77:18 The voice of thy thunder was in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook.
Ps 89:11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

Are you seeing how God is writing in such a manner so you will understand that earth and world means the same thing. The word world here means the physical earth but the word world in our English is not always translated from the Hebrew word that means the physical earth.

Here is an instance:

Isa 64:4 For since the beginning of the world [men] have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, [what] he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

This word world means a long age.

How does this information address your question. Here is the logic. If sin entered the world, the earth, by Adam and death had already taken place, then Romans 5:12 would not be true because we are told his sin was the cause of death. He would then have been created among the fossils of bygone death from dirt that had been cursed by God.

I am not buying it!

Now look at this:

Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The foundation of the world was in Ge 1:1. It was because of Adam's sin and the sin of his offspring that Jesus Christ came into the world. It is not said he came for anyone before Adam, because there was no one before Adam.


Here are all the verse with world and earth. Read it and learn how God establishes truth.

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’S, and he hath set the world upon them.
1Ch 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Job 34:13 Who hath given him a charge over the earth? or who hath disposed the whole world?
Job 37:12 And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth.
Ps 19:4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Ps 24:1 A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD’S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
Ps 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Ps 77:18 The voice of thy thunder was in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook.
Ps 89:11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
Ps 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Ps 96:13 Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.
Ps 97:4 His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled.
Ps 98:9 Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.
Pr 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Isa 18:3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.
Isa 23:17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.
Isa 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Isa 26:18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
Isa 34:1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
Jer 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
Jer 25:26 And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.
Jer 51:15 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding.
La 4:12 The kings of the earth, and all the inhabitants of the world, would not have believed that the adversary and the enemy should have entered into the gates of Jerusalem.
Na 1:5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
Ac 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Ro 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Re 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Re 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

[Biblewriter]

Hey everybody,
I am a dispensationlist, and believe in a pre trib rapture, and Paul is my apostle during this age of grace. This is my second post ever! haha

Im not sure if this is the best place for the question, but I wanted the opinion of fellow believers who understand the difference between law and grace.

Do you believe there is a "gap" in time of unknown length between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. Some believe this explains the fossil record, and is also the time period where satan rebelled against God, which explains the state of the earth in verse 2.

Thanks for the replies,
Matt

The Bible begins with the statement that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” (genesis 1:1) This very simple statement needs no explanation. But then we read, Genesis 1:2"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

Many think the first sentence of this second verse is a description of the condition of the earth at the beginning, just after it was first created. But that is an interpretation. God did not tell us this.
One of the most common problems in attempting to understand the Bible is assuming that our interpretation of the meaning of a passage is what God said. But one of the most important principles of interpreting the Bible is that what it does not say is just as important as what it does say. We first need to notice that it does not say that “when the earth was first created it was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” So the text, simply as it stands in out familiar King James Version, allows for a gap between these first two verses. This is called “the gap theory,” and is believed by many. But many others insist that this is trifling with scripture, and that the obvious meaning of the passage is that verse 2 follows immediately upon verse 1.

If we consider only the possibility of a gap between these two verses, we will never be able to resolve this question, for these two verses, taken by themselves, can be legitimately interpreted either way. But we need to notice the Hebrew word translated as “was” in the clause “the earth was without form, and void.” This word is הָיָה, or hâyâh, word number 1961 in Strong’s Hebrew dictionary. This Hebrew word occurs well over a thousand times in the Masoretic text, and a full thirty-five times in the creation account alone (the first three chapters of Genesis.) In the King James Version this Hebrew word is often translated was, but in its various forms it is also translated were, wast, become, became, becamest, being, am, been, continued, endure, abode, had, have, hath, seemed, go, went, come, came, follow, and thirty-five other ways. When we see the wide variety of meaning this Hebrew word can have, we realize that we would be on very shaky ground if we were to insist that in a particular place, one of these various meanings is the only possible correct translation of this word.

This word sometimes indeed indicates a fixed condition, as in Genesis 3:1"Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.” But most of the time it indicates a condition that has (or will) come about as the result of a change, as in Genesis 1:3"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.” But more significant to this discussion is the fact that in three cases in this short section alone, the King James translators rendered this word as “became” or “become.” This first of these is Genesis 2:7"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” The second is Genesis 2:10"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.” And the third is Genesis 3:22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil...” From this we see that the word translated “was” in the clause “the earth was without form, and void,” could legitimately be translated “became,” rather than “was.” if this is what God was saying, the true meaning of Genesis 1:1-2 is that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth became without form, and void.” If this is what God meant by these words, He was indicating that the earth itself is older that the six thousand year age of the present creation.

We cannot say with certainty that this is what God meant by these words, but neither can we say with certainty that this is not what He meant. The truth is that consideration of this passage, taken by itself, cannot resolve this question. So we now have two points in which this passage, taken by itself, can legitimately be interpreted either with or without “gap,” that is, a period of time, between the first two verses.

Is it possible that God would speak of such important matters in terms so vague that we cannot positively determine His meaning? If we restrict our study to these two verses alone, such would indeed be the case. But we read in Isaiah 28:9, "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:” So we understand that to resolve this question we need to consider the rest of what the word of God says about His act of creation.

We can begin this study by considering Isaiah 45:18, "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Here we see a clear reference to God’s action in creating the heavens and the earth. But concerning the earth He specifically said that “he created it not in vain.” We need to specifically notice the Hebrew word translated “in vain.” This word is ּוהֹת, or tôhû, word number 8414 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary. God did not create the earth tôhû, ּוהֹת.

Why is this important to this discussion? Because this is exactly the same Hebrew word as the one we find in Genesis 1:2, where we read that the earth was tôhû, ּוהֹת.

If we look very closely at this word in these two places, we see that it is not only the same Hebrew word, it is the same form of the same Hebrew word. In Isaiah 45:18 this Hebrew word is translated “in vain.” In Genesis 1:2 it is translated “without form.” But in both cases, the word God used is identical. So we see that Isaiah 45:18 specifically says that God did not create the earth in the condition described in Genesis 1:2.

We now have something positive to go on. We need to remember that the question we are discussing is the age of the earth, or more specifically, whether or not the Bible teaches that the earth is about six thousand years old. We had already learned that the first two verses of the Bible are inconclusive about this question. But now we have also learned that Isaiah 45:18 specifically tells us that the condition described in Genesis 1:2 is not the condition in which God made the earth. Thus we are forced to conclude that there was a previous creation on this earth, and that something happened to it. This requires a period of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. The “gap” in the “gap theory” is not just something technically allowable, based on the text. It is required, if we accept the rest of the Holy Scriptures at face value. If the Bible is true, mankind has been on this earth for only about six thousand years, but the earth itself is older than that. How much older is not revealed. Why? Because that has nothing to do with God’s relationship with us.

But why would God have let us know there was a previous creation on this earth? To understand this, we need to look again at Genesis 1:2. We will use the alternate translation of “became” for הָיָה, or hâyâh, instead of the word “was.” Genesis 1:2"And the earth became without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” We now need to consider the Hebrew word translated “void” in this passage. This is בֹהוּ, or bôhû, word number 922 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary. This Hebrew word occurs only three times in the Bible. This is the word translated emptiness in Isaiah 34:11 “But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.” It is also the word translated void in Jeremiah 4:23 “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.” These passages are both speaking of an utter destruction that the Lord will bring upon this world in a future day. So we see that in every other place where this Hebrew word is used in scripture, it is speaking of a waste brought about by destruction. This is in prefect keeping with the fact that Isaiah 45:18 shows us that God did not create the earth that way. So now we see that Genesis 1:2 seems to imply, even though it does not say, that a previous creation on this earth had been destroyed.

But why would God show us this? Why indeed? Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? This evil society was completely destroyed. What does God say about that destruction? We read in Jude 1:5"I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

Here we read that God “set forth” Sodom and Gomorrah “for an example.” God’s account of the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah, and of their destruction, was given us “for an example.” That is, it is a warning. God has told us that He is coming to judge the earth. In fact He told us, just a few verses after the last one we looked at; Jude 1:14"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” But He has not only told us that He will judge the world. He has warned us that He will destroy it. 2 Peter 3:10"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”

This future destruction of the earth is given in many scriptures. One of the plainest is:

2 Peter 3:3"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
10"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?”

In this passage we see, not only that the earth will be destroyed in a future day, but that its previous destruction should be a warning to us all. This previous destruction appears to be a reference to the time of Noah, but when we compare Genesis 1:2 with Isaiah 45:18 we see that it also applies to that time as well. This appears to be the reason God has revealed that there was a creation in this earth before the creation of Adam about six thousand years ago. That is, those of us living in the present day should take that destruction, like the one at the time of Noah, as a warning. For it has happened before, and it will happen again.

 

[JDS]

The Bible begins with the statement that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” (genesis 1:1) This very simple statement needs no explanation. But then we read, Genesis 1:2"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

Many think the first sentence of this second verse is a description of the condition of the earth at the beginning, just after it was first created. But that is an interpretation. God did not tell us this.
One of the most common problems in attempting to understand the Bible is assuming that our interpretation of the meaning of a passage is what God said. But one of the most important principles of interpreting the Bible is that what it does not say is just as important as what it does say. We first need to notice that it does not say that “when the earth was first created it was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” So the text, simply as it stands in out familiar King James Version, allows for a gap between these first two verses. This is called “the gap theory,” and is believed by many. But many others insist that this is trifling with scripture, and that the obvious meaning of the passage is that verse 2 follows immediately upon verse 1.

If we consider only the possibility of a gap between these two verses, we will never be able to resolve this question, for these two verses, taken by themselves, can be legitimately interpreted either way. But we need to notice the Hebrew word translated as “was” in the clause “the earth was without form, and void.” This word is הָיָה, or hâyâh, word number 1961 in Strong’s Hebrew dictionary. This Hebrew word occurs well over a thousand times in the Masoretic text, and a full thirty-five times in the creation account alone (the first three chapters of Genesis.) In the King James Version this Hebrew word is often translated was, but in its various forms it is also translated were, wast, become, became, becamest, being, am, been, continued, endure, abode, had, have, hath, seemed, go, went, come, came, follow, and thirty-five other ways. When we see the wide variety of meaning this Hebrew word can have, we realize that we would be on very shaky ground if we were to insist that in a particular place, one of these various meanings is the only possible correct translation of this word.

This word sometimes indeed indicates a fixed condition, as in Genesis 3:1"Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.” But most of the time it indicates a condition that has (or will) come about as the result of a change, as in Genesis 1:3"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.” But more significant to this discussion is the fact that in three cases in this short section alone, the King James translators rendered this word as “became” or “become.” This first of these is Genesis 2:7"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” The second is Genesis 2:10"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.” And the third is Genesis 3:22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil...” From this we see that the word translated “was” in the clause “the earth was without form, and void,” could legitimately be translated “became,” rather than “was.” if this is what God was saying, the true meaning of Genesis 1:1-2 is that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth became without form, and void.” If this is what God meant by these words, He was indicating that the earth itself is older that the six thousand year age of the present creation.

We cannot say with certainty that this is what God meant by these words, but neither can we say with certainty that this is not what He meant. The truth is that consideration of this passage, taken by itself, cannot resolve this question. So we now have two points in which this passage, taken by itself, can legitimately be interpreted either with or without “gap,” that is, a period of time, between the first two verses.

Is it possible that God would speak of such important matters in terms so vague that we cannot positively determine His meaning? If we restrict our study to these two verses alone, such would indeed be the case. But we read in Isaiah 28:9, "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:” So we understand that to resolve this question we need to consider the rest of what the word of God says about His act of creation.

We can begin this study by considering Isaiah 45:18, "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Here we see a clear reference to God’s action in creating the heavens and the earth. But concerning the earth He specifically said that “he created it not in vain.” We need to specifically notice the Hebrew word translated “in vain.” This word is ּוהֹת, or tôhû, word number 8414 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary. God did not create the earth tôhû, ּוהֹת.

Why is this important to this discussion? Because this is exactly the same Hebrew word as the one we find in Genesis 1:2, where we read that the earth was tôhû, ּוהֹת.

If we look very closely at this word in these two places, we see that it is not only the same Hebrew word, it is the same form of the same Hebrew word. In Isaiah 45:18 this Hebrew word is translated “in vain.” In Genesis 1:2 it is translated “without form.” But in both cases, the word God used is identical. So we see that Isaiah 45:18 specifically says that God did not create the earth in the condition described in Genesis 1:2.

We now have something positive to go on. We need to remember that the question we are discussing is the age of the earth, or more specifically, whether or not the Bible teaches that the earth is about six thousand years old. We had already learned that the first two verses of the Bible are inconclusive about this question. But now we have also learned that Isaiah 45:18 specifically tells us that the condition described in Genesis 1:2 is not the condition in which God made the earth. Thus we are forced to conclude that there was a previous creation on this earth, and that something happened to it. This requires a period of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. The “gap” in the “gap theory” is not just something technically allowable, based on the text. It is required, if we accept the rest of the Holy Scriptures at face value. If the Bible is true, mankind has been on this earth for only about six thousand years, but the earth itself is older than that. How much older is not revealed. Why? Because that has nothing to do with God’s relationship with us.

But why would God have let us know there was a previous creation on this earth? To understand this, we need to look again at Genesis 1:2. We will use the alternate translation of “became” for הָיָה, or hâyâh, instead of the word “was.” Genesis 1:2"And the earth became without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” We now need to consider the Hebrew word translated “void” in this passage. This is בֹהוּ, or bôhû, word number 922 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary. This Hebrew word occurs only three times in the Bible. This is the word translated emptiness in Isaiah 34:11 “But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.” It is also the word translated void in Jeremiah 4:23 “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.” These passages are both speaking of an utter destruction that the Lord will bring upon this world in a future day. So we see that in every other place where this Hebrew word is used in scripture, it is speaking of a waste brought about by destruction. This is in prefect keeping with the fact that Isaiah 45:18 shows us that God did not create the earth that way. So now we see that Genesis 1:2 seems to imply, even though it does not say, that a previous creation on this earth had been destroyed.

But why would God show us this? Why indeed? Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? This evil society was completely destroyed. What does God say about that destruction? We read in Jude 1:5"I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

Here we read that God “set forth” Sodom and Gomorrah “for an example.” God’s account of the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah, and of their destruction, was given us “for an example.” That is, it is a warning. God has told us that He is coming to judge the earth. In fact He told us, just a few verses after the last one we looked at; Jude 1:14"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” But He has not only told us that He will judge the world. He has warned us that He will destroy it. 2 Peter 3:10"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”......
.

James. I see that you worked hard on your explanation of the gap and I qppreciate it. You have a good argument.

Let me say though that you had to accuse the KJV of using the wrong words to express the actual truth. This is enough reason to reject your reasoning. Let me say also that I like a lot of things you have to say and because there is disagreement on this doctrine it will not make us enemies.

I have a very few minutes now but I will say that God merely stated that he created the heaven and the earth in the beginning (of time). The assumption is that since God created it, then it must have been complete and perfect from the beginning. I propose though that God created the heaven and the earth in the manner he did for instruction in his plan of salvation. Nothing he has created was complete and entire at the first. There is always a process and I could give a bible full of examples. I will give just a few.

Adam, was created physically from the dirt. Then he was given the breath of life, a soul, and the Spirit of God. God could have said, "let there be Adam" and it would have been so. We must have the story of the creation of Adam explained to us to have the bible make sense to us today.We certainly could not fully understand the church without him. He was incomplete because he did not have a wife and he was not complete until he did.

The process of a mans life becomes more understandable with the story of creation. He is born into the world through a process that the Lord initiated. He is empty and void and heading toward judgment and hell. But the Spirit of God begins to be an external presence over his life and he is born again and he is given life and eternal purpose. Paul says he is a new creation in Christ Jesus and has a destiny of glorification just like the earth when it is made new. Our glorification is the new body though we are saved now.

The creation of the earth in the manner we see it bears witness to the eternal mind and wisdom of God and there is no previous creation else the type is violated. The bible is a parable. It is just the way God reveals himself to us. A parable is truth and prophecy and God always writes with word pictures so as to teach us his truth in hundreds of different ways.

Israel is another example of my point. There was a process for God to create her. She was in egypt as a people with a conciense but without law. God redeemed her from egypt (The world) and gave her his law. Later, he gave her his Spirit but she is not glorified. Just like the earth must be burned to purify it, so Israel, the church (at the judgment seat of Christ) the nations, and the earth, and the angels must face the fire. All entities that God has created must face the fire before they are perfect.

Jesus Christ himself in his humanity (though he is without sin) has the exact same testimony as Israel. (Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered)

1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you].

Genesis 1:1 tells us God created the heaven and the earth. In verse two he begins to tell us how he is bringing it to glory.

Re 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

 

[fingerttip]

I may be biased from what I personally believe, however I think biblewriters explanation of the verses seem to make more sense to me logically and biblically.

To throw a new wrinkle in the discussion....

Lucifer means light bearer, or light reflector. Whose light would he be reflecting then, not his own but God's light. Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways until iniquity was found in him. We know that God cannot dwell with iniquity. What would happen when God leaves his creation. Lucifer would no longer be able to reflect God's light, and perhaps darkness would cover the face of the earth? This is what we find in Gen 1:2

The whole bible from this verse on is God's plan for re claiming the earth.

I wonder who God may have in mind to become his light/glory reflector in the future? believers? Just a thougt.

Matt

 

[JDS]

I may be biased from what I personally believe, however I think biblewriters explanation of the verses seem to make more sense to me logically and biblically.

Well, he might be right. Very few people on this forum agrees with me about much so I will not take it personally that you don't agree either. One thing is sure; If I am right then Satan was created in one of the six days of creation and the scriptures would need to confirm it!

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created..

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

 

[fingerttip]

To the Person who PMed me,
I tried to PM you back, however I was given the message I must have 15 posts before PMing someone. haha Im at 5 now.

So,... I very much enjoyed the article, and agree with it. Thank you. Maybe I can PM you with a real response in a while

 

[RND]

Hey everybody,
I am a dispensationlist, and believe in a pre trib rapture, and Paul is my apostle during this age of grace. This is my second post ever! haha

Im not sure if this is the best place for the question, but I wanted the opinion of fellow believers who understand the difference between law and grace.

Do you believe there is a "gap" in time of unknown length between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. Some believe this explains the fossil record, and is also the time period where satan rebelled against God, which explains the state of the earth in verse 2.

Thanks for the replies,
Matt

Not I.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

If you look in the footnotes of any MacArthur study bible it tells of what biblewriter was talking about regarding a "gap" theory.

thanks.

 

[JDS]

If you look in the footnotes of any MacArthur study bible it tells of what biblewriter was talking about regarding a "gap" theory.

thanks.

What does this post mean? Biblewriter seems to be pushing for a gap and JM does teaches young earth, I think.

 

[Biblewriter]

What does this post mean? Biblewriter seems to be pushing for a gap and JM does teaches young earth, I think.

I don't know what John MacArthur wrote on this subject. I only know what the scriptures say.

 

[ezek33]

Hey everybody,
I am a dispensationlist, and believe in a pre trib rapture, and Paul is my apostle during this age of grace. This is my second post ever! haha

Im not sure if this is the best place for the question, but I wanted the opinion of fellow believers who understand the difference between law and grace.

Do you believe there is a "gap" in time of unknown length between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. Some believe this explains the fossil record, and is also the time period where satan rebelled against God, which explains the state of the earth in verse 2.

Thanks for the replies,
Matt

No, and no one else should either.

 

[JDS]

I don't know what John MacArthur wrote on this subject. I only know what the scriptures say.

I did a search and found out he wrote a book once on a literal 6 day creation. I suppose he still teaches this.

 

[Biblewriter]

I did a search and found out he wrote a book once on a literal 6 day creation. I suppose he still teaches this.

I also believe in a literal 6 day creation, about six thousand years ago, but after the previous world was destroyed.

 

[JDS]

I also believe in a literal 6 day creation, about six thousand years ago, but after the previous world was destroyed.

What was the extent of the creation do you think? Humans, animals, time, angels? Was there a saviour from sin?

 

[zeke37]

Originally Posted by fingerttip

Hey everybody,
I am a dispensationlist, and believe in a pre trib rapture, and Paul is my apostle during this age of grace. This is my second post ever! haha

Im not sure if this is the best place for the question, but I wanted the opinion of fellow believers who understand the difference between law and grace.

Do you believe there is a "gap" in time of unknown length between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. Some believe this explains the fossil record, and is also the time period where satan rebelled against God, which explains the state of the earth in verse 2.

Thanks for the replies,
Matt
​

while I do not believe in a pre trib rapture (post trib)....I certainly do believe in the unknown length of a GAP between Gen1:1 and Gen1:2. The Hebrew language clears it up immensly...
​

the world BECAME A RUIN.....and was not created that way according to God, in Isaiah...

No, and no one else should either.

short sighted. The earth has been here for Billions of years....this age of flesh has not.

I also believe in a literal 6 day creation, about six thousand years ago, but after the previous world was destroyed.

IMO, it is the previous age that was destroyed...., same earth tho....forever and ever. 1 day to God is as a 1000 years to man, and a 1000 years as a day


1 day of Creation propbably = 1000 years... 6 days = 6000 possible years...


all starting after the RUIN'ing of the earth in Gen1:2....but there was a time before that ....billions of years old....


the end of the age event when Satan fell, and God ended that existance...can be seen in Jer4...and was IMO between 13-14,000 years ago.........mankind being here now for app. 8,000 years. (some would say 6000).

 

[JDS]

I am not sure which verse/verses you are referencing in Isaiah but if it is Is 24:1, I think you should revisit the context of that verse and if you will receive it, realize that he is not referring to a pre destruction of the earth but a future destruction. The context demands it!

May I just add a post script here that I am sure no one here will receive. As in all great events and doctrines in scripture, the trinitarian signature becomes very prominent and in this void earth doctrine, it hold true. In the beginning the earth was void and waste. After the tribulation , the indignation, the wrath of the Lamb, the earth will be as described by Is 24:1. At the end of the millennial reign, it will be waste once again making it three times it is in this condition in bible revelation.The tribulation is a time when Jesus Christ will rise to shake terribly the earth and there will not be anything left standing.

Isn't it wonderful how God stamps his trinitarian signature on everything. I could point out things through the night where it is seen but I will just point out a couple.

Israel was baptized in water nationally 3 times. Once when they came out of Egypt. Once at the introduction of Messiah Jesus. and once when the Spirit was given.

Jesus raised himself from the dead - destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up
Now if the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwell in you, then he that raised Jesus shall also quicken you........
Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)

How does this prove that God is speaking about a future void and wasteness of the earth? It doesn't, but the context does and it shows that there is a plan to lay the earth waste in the future.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hey everybody,
I am a dispensationlist, and believe in a pre trib rapture, and Paul is my apostle during this age of grace. This is my second post ever! haha

Im not sure if this is the best place for the question, but I wanted the opinion of fellow believers who understand the difference between law and grace.

Do you believe there is a "gap" in time of unknown length between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. Some believe this explains the fossil record, and is also the time period where satan rebelled against God, which explains the state of the earth in verse 2.

Thanks for the replies,
Matt

Yes I believe in the gap theory. I however don't feel like debateing it as I don't feel it is all that important. Just giving you a holler to let you know that I do believe it.

 

[zeke37]

I am not sure which verse/verses you are referencing in Isaiah but if it is Is 24:1, I think you should revisit the context of that verse and if you will receive it, realize that he is not referring to a pre destruction of the earth but a future destruction. The context demands it!

Isa45:17But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. 18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else

H8414 translated "vain"
תּהוּ
tôhû
to'-hoo
From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

same word in Gen1:2....

and the preposition translated "was" is almost always translated "became"

Isa14 and Ez28 also teaches us about Lucifer's fall becoming Satan.....he was not created as he is now, but became that way. there was an age before Gen1:2.

May I just add a post script here that I am sure no one here will receive. As in all great events and doctrines in scripture, the trinitarian signature becomes very prominent and in this void earth doctrine, it hold true. In the beginning the earth was void and waste. After the tribulation , the indignation, the wrath of the Lamb, the earth will be as described by Is 24:1. At the end of the millennial reign, it will be waste once again making it three times it is in this condition in bible revelation.

Gen1:2, Jer4 show the first one. it is not the flood of Noah's age.

The tribulation is a time when Jesus Christ will rise to shake terribly the earth and there will not be anything left standing.

including flesh

Isn't it wonderful how God stamps his trinitarian signature on everything. I could point out things through the night where it is seen but I will just point out a couple.

Israel was baptized in water nationally 3 times. Once when they came out of Egypt. Once at the introduction of Messiah Jesus. and once when the Spirit was given.

Jesus raised himself from the dead - destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up
Now if the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwell in you, then he that raised Jesus shall also quicken you........
Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)

How does this prove that God is speaking about a future void and wasteness of the earth? It doesn't, but the context does and it shows that there is a plan to lay the earth waste in the future.

the earth will be a wilderness of sorts in the Millennium.

but the earth will be refined and rejuvinated....as many of God's children will be.

 

[ezek33]

while I do not believe in a pre trib rapture (post trib)....I certainly do believe in the unknown length of a GAP between Gen1:1 and Gen1:2. The Hebrew language clears it up immensly...
​

the world BECAME A RUIN.....and was not created that way according to God, in Isaiah...
short sighted. The earth has been here for Billions of years....this age of flesh has not.


IMO, it is the previous age that was destroyed...., same earth tho....forever and ever. 1 day to God is as a 1000 years to man, and a 1000 years as a day


1 day of Creation propbably = 1000 years... 6 days = 6000 possible years...


all starting after the RUIN'ing of the earth in Gen1:2....but there was a time before that ....billions of years old....


the end of the age event when Satan fell, and God ended that existance...can be seen in Jer4...and was IMO between 13-14,000 years ago.........mankind being here now for app. 8,000 years. (some would say 6000).

If you say it it is more reason for me not to believe it.