GAP Creationism VS YEC & OEC Creationism

TheReasoner · Sep 2, 2011

mzungu said:
No matter what crimes televangelists commit. They will never be condemned by their followers. This is anathema to the very foundation of Christian doctrine!

Nah. Not according to the bible anyway. And: If they drop their pants or become homosexual their followers will pull away fast enough. It's just other sins that are tolerated. You know, fraud, theft, lies, deceit, greed, gluttony...

mzungu said:
Hovind and all the Televangelists who I named in previous posts have above all committed crimes that break God's and secular law yet he (they) enjoy the support of the creationists.

Aye. But the bible - which the creationists love to claim they follow to the letter - is very harsh and direct in it's condemnation of such people.

mzungu said:
Creationists fear being wrong more than they fear God's wrath! Yet they insist humans are fallible. Smells like double standards to me.

No kidding.

mzungu said:
Anyone who worships money above the principles Jesus gave us is not in any way a Christian whether he is born again or whatever other label he attaches to himself!

Quite. Matthew 6:24: 24 No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Hovind has chosen his master for all to see. Yet some, like Grady, still back him out of some demented gang mentality. He's a creationist so he can't be wrong. Unless he thinks with his sexual organ once too many times that is.

Funny thing... If you read Jesus' exploits in the bible there's a certain group of people He got really up in flames about. Called them names, even. Really strong insults.
Who would that be?
Oh, yeah. The pharisees. Self-righteous, greedy, holier-than-thou religious conservatives. Ring a bell?

mzungu · Sep 2, 2011

What is it with Americans? They always put money as the benchmark to any happening; eg:

When a natural disaster happens, the media always first announce how many dollars damage it caused.

When a social event happens the same thing; How much money it cost.

When a divorce takes place; how much money will be awarded to either side.

Money, Money, Money, and all in the name of GOD! But only in America!

TheReasoner · Sep 2, 2011

mzungu said:
What is it with Americans? They always put money as the benchmark to any happening; eg:

When a natural disaster happens, the media always first announce how many dollars damage it caused.

When a social event happens the same thing; How much money it cost.

When a divorce takes place; how much money will be awarded to either side.

Money, Money, Money, and all in the name of GOD! But only in America!

Well... I think they say it best themselves:

In god we trust... On their money. Sort of tells the tale rather well, doesn't it?

createdtoworship · Sep 2, 2011

mzungu said:
It was not a church! It was a business whose sole aim was to dupe people into contributing their money in the hopes that they will be cured of their ailments.

One of the reasons I refused a Green card for the US was that I did not want my child growing up ignorant!

I think you have kent hovind confused for a faith healer.

mzungu · Sep 2, 2011

gradyll said:
I think you have kent hovind confused for a faith healer.

All televangelists are the same: They are in it for the money!

createdtoworship · Sep 2, 2011

faith guardian said:
So you went from agreeing with him being a criminal to this in a small edit. More excuses for a man who abuses Jesus' name. How can you do that, Grady? If this was a matter of sex you'd probably be all up in flames over Hovind. But as his sins are financial in nature you defend him. Even though the bible speaks extremely harshly of financial sins such as greed and fraud.

As for preaching: What Hovind preached is creationism. Not Christianity. And saying that a theme park is a part of a church like this... Well, I suppose Apple could claim to be a church. Or Microsoft.

Sure. Many frauds say such things. Which is one reason to consider him unstable, isn't it. He does not repent. He instead claims he did nothing wrong. I've seen this before. From pedofiles, frauds, war criminals... It's a pathetic defense mechanism. To go out and say "oh, I'm a victim here. Go hide my money faithful sons" is nought but manipulation. And this behavior is why I consider him unstable. Repeated denials concerning his degree. Refusal to accept his actions were unlawful. Lying to keep money away from authorities. Conspiring to hide assets. He should have gotten far more than ten years.

Hovind SAYS they went after him illegally. He also says the US govt has no more power over him than the japanese govt. But he's put in prison by it. So... To be frank he sounds delusional.

what is the difference between a church renting a bouncy house and a theme park? nothing because both can be part of a church. You don't see the government going after ken hams museum do you? He was singled out, and those who don't believe in creationism just use it as an excuse. But I will still listen to his debates, because he always wins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVy3Y27TGpA&feature=player_detailpage

mzungu · Sep 2, 2011

Interesting:
Friends of God | Watch Free Documentary Online

mzungu · Sep 2, 2011

Not that it will make any difference but:
http://crooksandliars.com/media/play/wmv/4099/18821
CBS: Investigating The Accountability (And Lack Thereof) of Televangelists | Crooks and Liars

mzungu · Sep 2, 2011

gradyll said:
what is the difference between a church renting a bouncy house and a theme park? nothing because both can be part of a church. You don't see the government going after ken hams museum do you? He was singled out, and those who don't believe in creationism just use it as an excuse. But I will still listen to his sermons.

America is doomed not by terrorism but by religious fundamentalism that services a multi billion dollar industry called televangelism!

createdtoworship · Sep 2, 2011

mzungu said:
America is doomed not by terrorism but by religious fundamentalism that services a multi billion dollar industry called televangelism!

I agree with you, and kent hovind is not one.

televangelists are like benny hinn and faith healers, and kent hovind is just a creationist debater.

TheReasoner · Sep 2, 2011

gradyll said:
I agree with you, and kent hovind is not one.

televangelists are like benny hinn and faith healers, and kent hovind is just a creationist debater.

Aye. Criticize only where criticism is valid. Hovind may be much, but as far as I know he's not a faith healer robbing money that way. But he's still a fraud.

Hovind may not be a prosperity theology based fraud, but he is a fraud with a fake degree who tries to pull off incredible claims like evolution being the cause of communism. Utterly inane, that claim. The first emergence of communistic ideals I am aware of is Plato's ideal state, which was classless.

And it's not alone among his crazy claims. If Hovind is one of the best creation teachers, and he has a fake degree and mixes up his philosophies and ideologies so badly he manages to claim that a classless society is somehow tied to evolution that says a lot about creation teachers, doesn't it Grady?

Incariol · Sep 2, 2011

How did we even get to discussing Hovind to begin with?

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

Jazer · Sep 2, 2011

mzungu said:
What is it with Americans? They always put money as the benchmark to any happening; eg:

Everything is based on GPN and what your able to produce.
US is still far ahead of all the other nations with a 14 Trillion dollar GNP.

AV1611VET · Sep 2, 2011

Now you boys know why I feel blessed because I'm an independent Baptist, don't you Mzungu & Faith Guardian?

TheReasoner · Sep 2, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Now you boys know why I feel blessed because I'm an independent Baptist, don't you Mzungu & Faith Guardian?

To be honest, no. I do not.

TheReasoner · Sep 2, 2011

Jazer said:
Everything is based on GPN and what your able to produce.
US is still far ahead of all the other nations with a 14 Trillion dollar GNP.

Not in terms of per capita. GDP (per capita) statistics - Countries Compared - NationMaster

Of course it's interesting how you would answer a criticism of excessive focus on money with... More focus on money.

AV1611VET · Sep 2, 2011

faith guardian said:
To be honest, no. I do not.

-- Why doesn't that surprise me?

TheReasoner · Sep 2, 2011

AV1611VET said:
-- Why doesn't that surprise me?

Perhaps because you're aware that we don't think alike.

Care to explain why you feel so blessed AV?

AV1611VET · Sep 2, 2011

faith guardian said:
Perhaps because you're aware that we don't think alike.

Care to explain why you feel so blessed AV?

You can't tell from comparing Mzungu's posts to my point?

All those people have not one blessed thing to do with our church.

You can try and lay the Crusades and the misgivings of others at our doorstep, and you're making a big mistake if you think a good point is being made by doing so.

Mzungu's posts were a waste of time & effort as far as I'm concerned; and anyone affected by what he said has real problems.

TheReasoner · Sep 2, 2011

AV1611VET said:
You can't tell from comparing Mzungu's posts to my point?

All those people have not one blessed thing to do with our church.

You can try and lay the Crusades and the misgivings of others at our doorstep, and you're making a big mistake if you think a good point is being made by doing so.

Mzungu's posts were a waste of time & effort as far as I'm concerned; and anyone affected by what he said has real problems.

So you're not part of Christ's body, as all other churches are? Not part of the same fellowship?

AV, if you're with Christ you're part of the same family as every other Christian. Lutheran, Catholic, Orthodox... You may call yourself independent, but either you're in Christ's family or you're not.
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