GAP Creationism VS YEC & OEC Creationism

faith guardian said:

That depends on their actions AV. Being on TV and preaching is not something I'm against in itself.

If they sin in the name of God, I do not take that lightly though. I never do.

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So you don't begin arcing & sparking until they're caught -- is this correct?

AV1611VET said:

So you don't begin arcing & sparking until they're caught -- is this correct?

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Is it possible to rail against a crook before one discovers thehe's a crook?

faith guardian said:

That depends on their actions AV. Being on TV and preaching is not something I'm against in itself.

If they sin in the name of God, I do not take that lightly though. I never do.

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In this thread it was asked whether I was for God or against. Well, I am for honest people. Honest people try to answer the best they can direct questions they were asked. Dishonest people evade questions and try to divert the topic.

Sadly this (much to often) leads to the honest people losing track of the topic at hand... much to the profit of the dishonest people.

(Just an unrelated thought based on the ongoing conversation. Carry on with the regular programm!)

Nathan Poe said:

Is it possible to rail against a crook before one discovers thehe's a crook?

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If I read FG's posts correctly, he wants Matthew 18 church discipline levied against Mr. Hovind, only on a worldly scale.

Since churches were meant to be independent, FG is calling for a public apology that the whole world can see; whereas instead, he should be asking Mr. Hovind's particular church why they aren't taking the proper action (assuming they haven't).

In addition, FG seems to be ranting & raving against those who dupe the public, while acting in God's name -- yet I get the impression he doesn't know what constitutes duping until the courts say it's duping.

Again, I could be wrong; but I don't understand why FG, if he feels as strongly as he does (which is probably bogus) isn't going after those who are currently doing the same thing.

AV1611VET said:

If I read FG's posts correctly, he wants Matthew 18 church discipline levied against Mr. Hovind, only on a worldly scale.

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I think it's a given that you're reading them incorrectly -- the only question is whether it's an accidental misread or a deliberate one.

AV1611VET said:

So you don't begin arcing & sparking until they're caught -- is this correct?

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No. That is not correct. I react when I learn of misdeeds. Convictions can be how I learn of them. I cannot react when I do not know of any, can I? As far as Hovind goes I found out he's a fraud before he was arrested. So my condemnation in that case started prior to conviction. Not prior to confrontation though. I try not to condemn people without evidence of misdeeds. And even then, as I have repeatedly stated, how much I react depends on various factors. Chief among them is whether the person has repented. After all, we are all humans and can fail. At times spectacularly. So my ire isn't really woken unless a person when confronted does not repent.

Hovind is not the first to be found out, and not the first to lie and cheat in God's name. Jim Bakker is an example of a man who was convicted of fraud, but repented. So he's served his time (got let out early though) and he repented his sins on that and other areas. I respect that. I welcome him with open arms.
Hovind has not repented. He has not turned from his sinful lifestyle, but instead tries to keep it up.

faith guardian said:

Hovind has not repented. He has not turned from his sinful lifestyle, but instead tries to keep it up.

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Why hasn't he repented yet? do you even know his side of the story?

AV1611VET said:

Why hasn't he repented yet? do you even know his side of the story?

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*patiently*

Yes, AV, this is all a matter of public record.

The bankruptcy case

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind-decision.html

In which it is found that he lied about his income to the IRS and filed for chapter 13 bankruptcy in bad faith to attempt to evade taxes.

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/f8326b5d20c18392

Judge dismisses the absurd lawsuit in which Hovind tries to sue a government official for performing his duties.

"A U.S. district court has granted the government's motion to dismiss
an individual's motion to enjoin the IRS and its agents from
contacting and harassing him and trespassing upon his premises.
In an investigation into the tax liabilities of Kent Hovind, IRS
special agent Scott Schneider entered Hovind's property to serve four
summonses to Eric Hovind (Kent's son), CSE Transportation, Creation
Science Evangelism, and Faith Baptist Fellowship. The property was
posted with a notice refusing government agents permission to enter
the property without written consent. Agent Schneider entered the
property without permission and served the summonses.
Chief United States District Judge Roger Vinson ruled that since the
IRS is pursuing a criminal investigation of Hovind's income tax
liabilities the relief sought would impair the IRS's attempt to assess
and collect the taxes in violation of the Anti-Injunction Act. And
since Hovind did not demonstrate that any of the exceptions to the Act
applied, his motion was dismissed for lack of jurisdiction. "

AV1611VET said:

Why hasn't he repented yet? do you even know his side of the story?

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He was quite clear during court. And on the shows and debates with him I have seen. Confronted with what he had done he responded with lies and more deceit. When confronted with his degree he said it was legitimate. It was not. In his blog which he updates from prison he still keeps insisting on his fake title. He still keeps it up.

During his trials he lied and said to the court he would pay up, but on taped phone conversations he conspired with family to hide assets and swindle more.

As for his side... That was made abundantly clear many many times in court and on debates. To me it seems like a fraud lying and manipulating - playing the victim to gain sympathy. And I'd say that's a decent analysis. He is a known and convicted fraud.

When he repents, if that ever happens, I'll welcome him with open arms. But if he does not... My back is turned.

faith guardian said:

He was quite clear during court. And on the shows and debates with him I have seen. Confronted with what he had done he responded with lies and more deceit. When confronted with his degree he said it was legitimate. It was not. In his blog which he updates from prison he still keeps insisting on his fake title.

During his trials he lied and said to the court he would pay up, but on taped phone conversations he conspired with family to hide assets and swindle more.

As for his side... That was made abundantly clear many many times in court and on debates. To me it seems like a fraud lying and manipulating - playing the victim to gain sympathy. And I'd say that's a decent analysis. He is a known and convicted fraud.

When he repents, if that ever happens, I'll welcome him with open arms. But if he does not... My back is turned.

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WOW -- sounds like Mr. Hovind has a real fan here.

AV1611VET said:

WOW -- sounds like Mr. Hovind has a real fan here.

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I know his case decently. When I dismissed creationism I did go through much of his stuff. When it was available I also went through his "degree". Then, after that he and his arguments were brought up in a couple of discussions I have been in so from time to time I have touched base with the guy again. And then now... I've skimmed his blog as we have been debating here. You don't think I condemn people without reason? And you don't think I don't check to see if there's a big "I have sinned! Forgive me!" posted, do you?

So.. Fan? No. But I am thorough and try to always have as solid backing as humanly possible when I make strong statements. In this case it meant checking out what his background was, read his thesis, skim info from the trials, check up on his blog. THEN I condemned.
You do not have a problem with being thorough, do you?

I take such things very seriously, AV. I try to not condemn someone or something without thorough research first. Sometimes I fail that of course. But I try. Integrity and intellectual honesty are both extremely important.

Like I have stated before; Damned are only those that disagree or are not part of the TBN crowd. It matters not if one violates God's laws. It matters not if one commits crimes so long as one is part of the particular group.

I knew that this has nothing to do with religion nor God but is a sect that worships only Mammon!

Here enjoy:

List of Christian evangelists involved in scandals

Aimee Semple McPherson, 1920s–40s

Main article: Aimee Semple McPherson
One of the most famous evangelist scandals involved Canadian-born Aimee Semple McPherson in the 1920s, who allegedly faked her own death. She later claimed that she had been kidnapped, but a grand jury adjourned with no indictment, saying it had not enough evidence to proceed. Roberta Semple Salter, her daughter from her first marriage, became estranged from Semple McPherson and successfully sued her mother's attorney for slander during the 1930s. As a result of this she was cut out of her mother's will. Aimee Semple McPherson died in 1944 from an accidental overdose of barbiturates.
Lonnie Frisbee, 1970s–1980s

Main article: Lonnie Frisbee
Lonnie Frisbee was an American closeted gay Pentecostal evangelist and self-described "seeing prophet" in the late 1960s and 1970s who despite his "hippie" appearance had notable success as a minister and evangelist. Frisbee was a key figure in the Jesus Movement and was involved in the rise of two worldwide denominations (Calvary Chapel and the Vineyard Movement). Both churches later disowned him because of his active homosexuality, removing him first from leadership positions, then ultimately firing him. He died of AIDS-related complications in 1993.
Marjoe Gortner, early 1970s

Main article: Marjoe Gortner
Gortner rose to fame in the late 1940s as a child preacher, but he had simply been trained to do this by his parents and he had no personal faith. He was able to perform "miracles" and received large amounts of money in donations. After suffering a crisis of conscience, he invited a film crew to accompany him on a final preaching tour. The resulting film, Marjoe, mixes footage of revival meetings with Gortner's explanations of how evangelists manipulate their audiences. It won the 1972 Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature, but was not shown widely in the Southern United States due to fears that it would cause outrage in the Bible Belt.[1]
Billy James Hargis, early 1970s

Main article: Billy James Hargis
Hargis was a prolific author and radio evangelist. Hargis formed American Christian College in 1971 to teach fundamentalist Christian principles. However, a sex scandal erupted at the College, involving claims that Hargis had sex with male and female students. Hargis was forced out of American Christian College's presidency as a result. Further scandals erupted when members of Hargis' youth choir, the "All American Kids", accused Hargis of sexual misconduct as well. The college eventually closed down in the mid-1970s. Hargis denied the allegations publicly.
Jim & Tammy Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart, 1986 and 1991

Main articles: Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker
In 1986, evangelist Jimmy Swaggart began on-screen attacks against fellow televangelists Marvin Gorman and Jim Bakker. He uncovered Gorman's affair with a member of Gorman's congregation, and also helped expose Bakker's infidelity (which was arranged by a colleague while on an out-of-state trip).[2] These exposures received widespread media coverage. Gorman retaliated in kind by hiring a private investigator to uncover Swaggart's own adulterous indiscretions with a prostitute.[3] Swaggart was subsequently forced to step down from his pulpit for a year and made a tearful televised apology in February 1988 to his congregation, saying "I have sinned against you, my Lord, and I would ask that your precious blood would wash and cleanse every stain until it is in the seas of God's forgiveness."[4][5]
Swaggart was caught again by California police three years later in 1991 with another prostitute, Rosemary Garcia, who was riding with him in his car when he was stopped for driving on the wrong side of the road. When asked why she was with Swaggart, she replied, "He asked me for sex. I mean, that's why he stopped me. That's what I do. I'm a prostitute."[6]
Peter Popoff, 1987

Main article: Peter Popoff
A self-proclaimed prophet and faith healer in the 1980s, Popoff's ministry went bankrupt in 1987 after magician and skeptic James Randi and Steve Shaw debunked his methods by showing that instead of receiving information about audience members from supernatural sources, he received it through an in-ear receiver.[7]
Morris Cerullo, 1990s

Main article: Morris Cerullo
A number of incidents involving California-based televangelist Morris Cerullo caused outrage in the United Kingdom during the 1990s. Cerullo's claims of faith healing were the focus of particular concern. At a London crusade in 1992, he pronounced a child cancer sufferer to be healed, yet the girl died two months later. Multiple complaints were upheld against satellite television channels transmitting Cerullo's claims of faith-healing, and a panel of doctors concluded that Cerullo's claims of miraculous healing powers could not be substantiated. Cerullo also produced fund-raising material which was condemned as unethical by a number of religious leaders, as it implied that giving money to his organisation would result in family members becoming Christians.[8]
Mike Warnke, 1991

Main article: Mike Warnke
Warnke was a popular Christian evangelist and comedian during the 1970s and 1980s. He claimed in his autobiography, The Satan Seller (1973), that he had once been deeply involved in a Satanic cult and was a Satanic priest before converting to Christianity. In 1991, Cornerstone magazine launched an investigation into Warnke's life and testimony. It investigated Warnke's life, from interviews with over one hundred personal friends and acquaintances, to his ministry's tax receipts. Its investigation turned up damaging evidence of fraud and deceit. The investigation also revealed the unflattering circumstances surrounding Warnke's multiple marriages, affairs, and divorces. Most critically, however, the investigation showed how Warnke could not possibly have done the many things he claimed to have done throughout his nine-month tenure as a Satanist, much less become a drug-addicted dealer or become a Satanic high priest.
Robert Tilton, 1991

Main article: Robert Tilton
Tilton is an American televangelist who achieved notoriety in the 1980s and early 1990s through his paid television program Success-N-Life. At its peak, it aired in all 235 American TV markets. In 1991, Diane Sawyer and ABC News conducted an investigation of Tilton. The investigation, broadcast on ABC's Primetime Live on November 21, 1991, found that Tilton's ministry threw away prayer requests without reading them, keeping only the money or valuables sent to them by viewers, garnering his ministry an estimated $80 million USD a year. In the original investigation, one of Tilton's former prayer hotline operators claimed that the ministry cared little for desperate followers who called for prayer, saying that Tilton had a computer installed in July 1989 to make sure that the phone operators were off the line in seven minutes. Tilton sued ABC for libel in 1992, but the case was dismissed in 1993, and Tilton's show was off the air by October 30, 1993.

And the list continues:

W. V. Grant, 1996 and 2003

Main article: W. V. Grant
Like Peter Popoff, Grant was investigated by James Randi regarding his faith healing claims. He was then imprisoned for tax evasion in 1996. After restarting his ministry upon release, TV news investigations in Atlanta, Georgia, and Richmond, Virginia, investigated his revival meetings and concluded his healing claims were false. A 2010 program on the British Channel 4 station also concluded that Grant's claimed supernatural abilities were fake.[9]
Bob Moorehead, 1998

Moorehead, pastor of the Overlake Christian Church from the 1970s to June, 1998 was arrested in July, 1996 on a charge of indecent exposure in a public restroom in Daytona Beach, Florida. He stepped down amid allegations of molestation of adult members during baptism and wedding ceremonies that went as far back as 20 years earlier. [10]
Roy Clements, 1999

Main article: Roy Clements
Clements was a prominent figure within British evangelical Christianity. In 1999, he revealed he was in a homosexual relationship with another man, resigned his pastorship, and separated from his wife. He had written a number of well-received books which were withdrawn from sale when the news broke.[11]
John Paulk, 2000

Main article: John Paulk
John Paulk (no relation to Earl Paulk) is a former leader of Focus on the Family's Love Won Out conference and former chairman of the board for Exodus International North America. His claimed shedding of homosexuality is also the subject of his autobiography Not Afraid to Change. In September 2000, Paulk was found and photographed in a Washington, D.C. gay bar, and accused by opponents of flirting with male patrons at the bar. Later questioned by gay rights activist Wayne Besen, Paulk denied being in the bar despite photographic proof to the contrary. Initially, FoF's Dr. James Dobson sided with Paulk and supported his claims. Subsequently, Paulk, who himself had written about his habit of lying while he openly lived as a homosexual, confessed to being in the bar, but claimed he entered the establishment for reasons other than sexual pursuits. Paulk retained his Board seat for Exodus, however he did so while on probation. Paulk did not run again for chairman of the board of Exodus when his term expired.
Paul Crouch, 2004

Main article: Paul Crouch
Paul Crouch is the founder and president of the Trinity Broadcasting Network, or TBN, the world's largest evangelical Christian television network, as well as the former host of TBN's flagship variety show, Praise the Lord. In September 2004, the Los Angeles Times published a series of articles raising questions about the fundraising practices and financial transparency of TBN, as well as the allegations of a former ministry employee, Enoch Lonnie Ford, that he had a homosexual affair with Crouch during the 1990s. TBN denied the allegations, claiming that Ford's claims were part of an extortion scheme and that the Times was a "left-wing and anti-Christian newspaper." In 2005, Ford appeared at the taping of the ION Television show Lie Detector. The show's producers decided not to air the show, and the outcome of the lie detector test was never released. Consequently, none of the allegations were substantiated.
Douglas Goodman, 2004

Douglas Goodman, an evangelical preacher, and his wife Erica were pastors of Victory Christian Centre in London, England. The church was one of the largest in the United Kingdom. He came into notoriety when he was jailed for three and a half years for the sexual assault of four members of his congregation in 2004. VCC was closed by the Charity Commission, but his wife Erica started a new church, Victory to Victory, in Wembley. Douglas has upon his release resumed full pastoral ministry alongside his wife.[12][13][14][15][16]
Kent Hovind, 2006

Main article: Kent Hovind
Kent Hovind is an American Baptist minister and Young Earth creationist. He is most famous for "creation science" seminars, in which he argues for Young Earth creationism, using his self-formulated "Hovind Theory." He has been criticized by both the mainstream scientific community and other creationists. In 2006, Hovind who also has a reputation as a tax protestor had been charged with falsely declaring bankruptcy, making threats against federal officials, filing false complaints, failing to get necessary building permits, and various tax-related charges. He was convicted of 58 federal tax offenses and related charges, for which he is currently serving a ten-year sentence.[17]

And the list continues:


Ted Haggard, 2006

Main article: Ted Haggard
Ted Haggard was the pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado and was the president of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) from 2003 until November 2006. Haggard's position allowed him occasional access to President George W. Bush. In 2006 it was alleged that Haggard had been regularly visiting a male prostitute who also provided him with methamphetamine. Haggard admitted his wrongdoing and resigned as pastor of New Life church and as president of the NAE. The high-profile case was significant also because it immediately preceded the 2006 mid-term elections and may have even affected national voting patterns[citation needed]. In January 2009, Haggard admitted to a second homosexual relationship with a male church member on CNN-TV and other national media, and when asked, would not directly answer a question about his other possible homosexual relationships.[18] Ted Haggard has recently started a new church.[19]
Paul Barnes, 2006

Main article: Paul Barnes
Paul Barnes is the founder and former senior minister of the evangelical church Grace Chapel in Douglas County, Colorado. He confessed his homosexual activity to the church board, and his resignation was accepted on December 7, 2006.[20] He started the church in his basement and watched it reach a membership of 2,100 in his 28 years of leadership. This scandal was notable because it was similar to Ted Haggard's (above), it occurred in the same state (Colorado) and around the same time (late 2006).
Lonnie Latham, 2006

Main article: Lonnie Latham
In 2006, Latham, the senior pastor of South Tulsa Baptist Church and a member of the powerful Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee, was arrested for "offering to engage in an act of lewdness" with a male undercover police officer.[21]
Gilbert Deya, 2006

Main article: Gilbert Deya
Kenyan-born Deya moved to the United Kingdom in the 1990s and started a number of churches. He claims to have supernatural powers that allow him to make infertile women become pregnant and give birth. However, police investigations in the UK and Kenya concluded that Deya and his wife were stealing Kenyan babies. Deya was arrested in London during December 2006 and as of April 2010 he is currently fighting extradition to Kenya.[22]
Richard Roberts, 2007

Main article: Richard Roberts
In October 2007, televangelist Richard Roberts (son of the late televangelist Oral Roberts), was president of Oral Roberts University until his forced resignation on November 23, 2007. Roberts was named as a defendant in a lawsuit alleging improper use of university funds for political and personal purposes and improper use of university resources.[23]

Earl Paulk, 2007

Main article: Earl Paulk
Earl Paulk (no relation to John Paulk) was the founder and head pastor of Chapel Hill Harvester Church in Decatur, Georgia from 1960 until the 1990s. A number of women from the congregation came forward during the 1990s and 2000s, claiming that Paulk had sexual relations with them; charges of child molestation were also made. Some of these claims have subsequently been proven correct. Moreover, Donnie Earl Paulk, the current senior pastor of the church and nephew of Earl Paulk, had a court-ordered DNA test in 2007 which showed that he was Earl's son, not his nephew, which means that Earl and his sister-in-law had had a sexual relationship which led to Donnie's birth.[24]
Coy Privette, 2007

Main article: Coy Privette
Privette is a Baptist pastor, conservative activist, and politician in the U.S. state of North Carolina. Privette was president of the Christian Action League and a prominent figure in North Carolina moral battles. In 2007, Privette resigned as president of North Carolina's Christian Action League and from the Board of Directors of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, following revelations on July 19 that he had been charged with six counts of aiding and abetting prostitution.[25]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_evangelist_scandals#cite_note-TCM2006-143-16

Thomas Wesley Weeks, III, 2007

Main article: Thomas Wesley Weeks, III
Weeks married fellow evangelist Juanita Bynum in 2002, but they separated in May 2007. In August 2007, Weeks physically assaulted Bynum in a hotel parking lot and was convicted of the crime in March 2008. The couple divorced in June 2008 and Weeks remarried in October 2009.[26]
Michael Reid, 2008

Main article: Michael Reid
Bishop Michael Reid (born 1944) is a Christian evangelist in Essex, England and founder of Michael Reid Ministries who resigned from the role of pastor at Peniel Church in April 2008, after admitting to an eight-year extra-marital sexual relationship. The scandal was widely reported online[27][28][29] and in UK newspapers.[30][31] He has since re-developed an itinerant evangelistic ministry and has been speaking at a number of churches in the UK and overseas.
Joe Barron, 2008

Joe Barron, one of the 40 ministers at Prestonwood Baptist Church, one of the largest churches in the United States with 26,000 members, was arrested on May 15, 2008 for solicitation of a minor after driving from the Dallas area to Bryan, Texas, in order to allegedly engage in sexual relations with what he thought to be a 13 year-old girl he had met online. Barron's online communications had in fact been with undercover law enforcement official.[32][33][34]
Todd Bentley, 2008

Main article: Todd Bentley
Canadian Todd Bentley rose to prominence as the evangelist at the Lakeland Revival in Florida, which began in April 2008. Bentley claimed that tens of thousands of people were healed at the revival. However, in August 2008, he stepped down permanently when it was revealed he was separating from his wife, Shonnah, and was in a relationship with Jessa Hasbrook, a member of his staff.[35]
George Alan Rekers, 2010

Main article: George Alan Rekers
Penn Bullock and Brandon K. Thorp of the Miami New Times reported on May 4, 2010, that on April 13, 2010, Christian leader George Alan Rekers was photographed at Miami International Airport returning from an extended overseas trip with a twenty-year-old "rent boy", or gay male prostitute, known as "Lucien" (later identified as Jo-Vanni Roman). Given his opinion on homosexuals and homosexual behavior, the scandal surrounds Rekers' decision to employ a homosexual escort as a traveling companion, and how that runs contrary to Rekers' public stances on such issues.
Rekers claimed that Lucien was there to help carry Rekers' luggage as Rekers had allegedly had recent surgery, yet Rekers was seen carrying his own luggage when he and Lucien were spotted at the airport.[36] On his blog, Rekers denied having sex with the man.[37] In subsequent interviews, Roman said Rekers had paid him to provide nude massages daily, which included genital touching.
Eddie L. Long, 2010

Main article: Eddie L. Long
In September 2010 several civil complaints were filed against Bishop Eddie L. Long by men that stated Mr. Long used his position as the church leader to entice or coerce the men into consensual sexual relationships in exchange for money, travel and goods. At a press event on September 26, 2010 Bishop Long stated he would fight the civil complaints in court and would not comment on the allegations. On May 27, 2011, Bishop Long settled the matter out of court.[38] The Canadian documentary series, Sex Scandals In Religion covered the Long case [39]
Marcus Lamb, 2010

In December 2010, televangelist Marcus Lamb, the founder of the Daystar Television Network, admitted on television that he had been involved in an extramarital affair several years prior. He further alleged an extortion scheme against him. In late 2010 and early 2011, three former Daystar employees filed a series of lawsuits against Lamb and his wife, Joni, making allegations ranging from financial mismanagement in relation to the affair, to sexual harassment, and to wrongful termination.
Vaughn Reeves, 2010

Special Judge Dena Martin ordered former pastor Vaughn Reeves to serve consecutive six-year terms for each of nine fraud counts, in a scheme that cost about 2,900 investors $13.1 million.[40] Among aggravating factors, Martin found Reeves targeted people over age 65 and used religion to influence them. Reeves’ attorney plans to appeal.
Investigators said Reeves and his three sons used their now-defunct company, Alanar, to trick about 11,000 investors into buying bonds worth $120 million secured by mortgages on church construction projects.[41]
Instead, Reeves and his sons diverted money from new investments to pay off previous investors, pocketing $6 million and buying luxuries.[41]
Stephen Green, 2011

Stephen Green, a former Chairman of the Conservative Family Campaign who attends an Assemblies of God Church, is head of Christian Voice, a Conservative Christian pressure group in the UK.
In January 2011, Green's former wife, Caroline Green, accused him of repeatedly physically assaulting her and their children, including one incident where he allegedly beat her with a weapon until she bled, and another in which their son allegedly required hospital treatment after having been beaten with a piece of wood.[42]
Albert Odulele, 2011

In February 2011, televangelist, founder and senior pastor of Glory House London, Dr Albert Odulele was charged with two counts of sexual assault, one involving a 14-year-old boy and another on a 21-year-old man. Although he initially denied the charges, he later pleaded guilty and confessed that he had been battling with his sexuality for many years. He was subsequently sentenced at Woolwich Crown Court, London, to 8 and 6 months in prison to run concurrently. He will be on the sex offenders register for 5 years. He is currently serving his sentence. [43]
Senate probe

In 2007, Senator Chuck Grassley (R-IA) opened a probe into the finances of six televangelists who preach a "prosperity gospel".[44] The probe investigated reports of lavish lifestyles by televangelists including: fleets of Rolls Royces, palatial mansions, private jets and other expensive items purportedly paid for by television viewers who donate due to the ministries' encouragement of offerings. The six that were investigated are:

• Kenneth Copeland and Gloria Copeland of Kenneth Copeland Ministries of Newark, Texas;

• Creflo Dollar and Taffi Dollar of World Changers Church International and Creflo Dollar Ministries of College Park, Ga;

• Benny Hinn of World Healing Center Church Inc. and Benny Hinn Ministries of Grapevine, Texas;

• Eddie L. Long of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church and Bishop Eddie Long Ministries of Lithonia, Ga; DocuSeries - SEX SCANDALS and RELIGION did a 2011 investigative episode on his alleged sexual misconduct [45]

• Joyce Meyer and David Meyer of Joyce Meyer Ministries of Fenton, Mo; and

• Randy White and ex-wife Paula White of the multiracial Without Walls International Church and Paula White Ministries of Tampa.[46]

On January 6, 2011 Senator Grassley released his review of the six ministries response to his inquiry. He called for a further congressional review of tax-exemption laws for religious groups.[47]
See also

• Garner Ted Armstrong
• Elmer Gantry
• Televangelism
• List of convicted religious leaders

faith guardian said:

Nope. He didn't pay them, purposefully so. He said in court that he'd pay if all the govt. wanted was money, but on the phone with his sons conspired to hide away substantial amounts from the govt.
The day the IRS searched his home he withdrew $70 000, which he intended to hide.

Some of it is outlined here:
Kent Hovind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He's not a victim, Grady. He's a criminal. A fraud. Incariol said it well:

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Listen to his phone calls on youtube, he says they illegally went after him and he didn't break any laws.

Incariol said:

The fact that he perjured himself repeatedly, defied court orders, was subsequently delinquent again, tried to sue the government, filed false criminal complaints repeatedly, and conspired with his son to hide away property titles and deeds to evade a legal IRS lien.

The man is a mentally unstable criminal.

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Kent Hovind did not need to pay taxes; churches are exempt from paying taxes, and his ministry and theme park were an extension of his church!

No matter what crimes televangelists commit. They will never be condemned by their followers. This is anathema to the very foundation of Christian doctrine!

Hovind and all the Televangelists who I named in previous posts have above all committed crimes that break God's and secular law yet he (they) enjoy the support of the creationists.

Creationists fear being wrong more than they fear God's wrath! Yet they insist humans are fallible. Smells like double standards to me.

Anyone who worships money above the principles Jesus gave us is not in any way a Christian whether he is born again or whatever other label he attaches to himself!

gradyll said:

Kent Hovind did not need to pay taxes; churches are exempt from paying taxes, and his ministry and theme park were an extension of his church!

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So you went from agreeing with him being a criminal to this in a small edit. More excuses for a man who abuses Jesus' name. How can you do that, Grady? If this was a matter of sex you'd probably be all up in flames over Hovind. But as his sins are financial in nature you defend him. Even though the bible speaks extremely harshly of financial sins such as greed and fraud.

As for preaching: What Hovind preached is creationism. Not Christianity. And saying that a theme park is a part of a church like this... Well, I suppose Apple could claim to be a church. Or Microsoft.

gradyll said:

Listen to his phone calls on youtube, he says they illegally went after him and he didn't break any laws.

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Sure. Many frauds say such things. Which is one reason to consider him unstable, isn't it. He does not repent. He instead claims he did nothing wrong. I've seen this before. From pedofiles, frauds, war criminals... It's a pathetic defense mechanism. To go out and say "oh, I'm a victim here. Go hide my money faithful sons" is nought but manipulation. And this behavior is why I consider him unstable. Repeated denials concerning his degree. Refusal to accept his actions were unlawful. Lying to keep money away from authorities. Conspiring to hide assets. He should have gotten far more than ten years.

Hovind SAYS they went after him illegally. He also says the US govt has no more power over him than the japanese govt. But he's put in prison by it. So... To be frank he sounds delusional.

gradyll said:

Kent Hovind did not need to pay taxes; churches are exempt from paying taxes, and his ministry and theme park were an extension of his church!

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It was not a church! It was a business whose sole aim was to dupe people into contributing their money in the hopes that they will be cured of their ailments.

One of the reasons I refused a Green card for the US was that I did not want my child growing up ignorant!