Gaming piracy

[CHR15T05]

Copyright infringement is illegal. I thought we were supposed to "obey the law of the land." Granted right/wrong does not always = the law so if they pass a law that says I can't worship God or meet with other Christians or own/read a Bible, etc, then I'll be breaking the law. Other than that, I thought we were specifically told to respect our leaders and obey the laws.

EXACTLY!!! Thank you!!!

You know one of my favourite stories? When they asked Jesus if they should play taxes to Cesar.

The reason for them asking? WEll no one WANTS to pay tax. I dont! And lets not forget Cesar was an IMPOSED ruler. IMPOSED on the Jewish people by an invading nation. Israel was under occupation by the romans.

What would the "King of the Jews" answer be? Surley he would oppose the opressive regieme?

Oh hang on... Jesus says "Pay to Cesar what is Cesars and pay to God what is Gods."

Oops! Seems we are supposed to follow laws we dont like as well as those we do. Seems we are supposed to trust and obey in our leadership.
Like the post above, the Bible FULLY supports Law breaking IF the law is against GOD! (Daniel in the Lions Den, King Nebucaneza with Shadrac, Meshac, and abednigo (forgive my spelling))

But it says NOTHING about breaking the law for personal gain. And it in fact says that a workman is worth his wage. Hmmm.......

Still this is all part of one of my newest gripes that I call "Misunderstanding democracy". Democracy gives us the right to vote for our leaders. The leaders we think we can trust with making the right desisions. What actually happens? When that VOTED IN leadership makes a desision we DONT like, we all jump up about it. Funny... we voted them in.

But like I've said before... find democracy in the bible.

Sorry I know all that seems to have gone off track but my point is moral right and wrong do NOT contain a grey area called "my preference".

 

[Dracil]

The next time you need a game, and don't have any money, download NetHack or Angband. Pick up some text adventures.

Yep, I have them both.

As for those who talk about the law of the land, the law also allows protests through civil disobedience.

BTW, a lot of people often complain that they did NOT vote in whoever's the current leader of X country. So they feel justified in their complaints.

 

[cartridge]

I would be lying if I said I had never pirated a game. However if they are any good, then I buy them anyway. I only use downloads and copies to test games, with a little more depth than a demo.

I usually make a copy of every game I buy any way jus incase I dammage or lose the origional copy. I also usually crack installed games so I dont need to bother with CD's. But as I am aware that is legal.

 

[Dracil]

Another thought, if one is free to disobey laws that are against God, well copyright infringement laws promote GREED of the companies, which is also against God, so I'll let you guys continue that train of thought.

 

[Niz]

i only warez programs like photoshop and dreamweaver. I don't like pirate games cause i can't play them online

 

[Dust and Ashes]

Another thought, if one is free to disobey laws that are against God, well copyright infringement laws promote GREED of the companies, which is also against God, so I'll let you guys continue that train of thought.

Wow, really? Hmmm...guess I need to rethink things. I thought those laws were in place to protect people who put time, effort and their own/investors'/both money into creating a commercial product (game) to sell from being ripped off by people who are too cheap to pay for it.

It seems you are just trying to justify taking something without paying for it. Oh, wait, they might make some money off of it, therefore they are being greedy. I guess I'm being greedy by expecting my employer to pay me for my time and effort as well.

Oh, hey, I remember now, the copy protection prevents legitimate buyers from making backups so that makes it ok for me to steal intellectual property. It's just 1's and 0's and that doesn't belong to anyone. Right, so spend a few hundred hours in front of your computer and write your own game with the 1's and 0's then. Don't forget to put it on the web so we can all download it and play it free.

The law allows civil disobedience? So, organize a protest. I'll be right there with you as I don't like the extent some game companies have gone to with copy protections. I personally crack all my games so I don't have to swap disks when I change games. I don't try to use that inconvenience to justify stealing someone else's work.

If you want to steal games, then steal games. Don't waste so much time and effort trying to justify it, just enjoy the games you've stolen.

 

[Dracil]

The law used to be put in place to protect the time/money/resources. Thanks to lobbying and donations to politicians by the companies, the laws have changed into a means of solidifying monoplies and greed.

And technically, cracking those games are illegal too. Tsk tsk. Might wanna rethink that, or do you think it's ok to break the laws that you don't like? Oh wait... what were those accusations that were being thrown at me again?

FYI though, I actually do buy most of my games. Got a problem with that? Although, it's not necessarily always all nice and new so that the companies don't get money from me unless they're a group that I actually think deserves my money and I want to support (hint: you can do this with music CDs too). And even despite this, I still do support piracy on principle, which is why I spend my time arguing in support of more widespread piracy, instead of against it, especially as when done right, it lowers the cost of the legitimate products. I especially like to argue against the common misconceptions and myths that people have (such as copyright infringement = stealing).

And heck yes, if I was making my own game, I would give them out for free. There are actually a lot of people who do this. Sometimes a little personal gain can be sacrificed for the greater good, ya know?

Call it stealing all you want. Saying the sky is pink with polka dots on it doesn't make it any more so than calling it stealing. As I've said over and over again, the law agrees with me on this one.

 

[CHR15T05]

YES! I agree totally! Lets all pirate all games. In no time at all the gaming industry will be at our mercy! Oh no wait... in no time at all it will be out of business but hey, they are all greedy and evil and we should rise up against them for it!

Here is a list of EVIL games made by EVIL companies and this is just a drop in the ocean:

Duke Nukem 1/2/3D
DooM
Wolfensiten
Screamer2
Halo
Carmageddon
BurnOut2
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2003
Unreal Tournament 2004
DeltaForce Series
Freelancer
Meddle Of Honour
Return to Castle Wolf
Half Life
Quake2
Quake1
Quake 3 Arena

so many many more I cant be botherd to list.

What makes them all so evil and greedy? Well the evil greedy games companies released FREE playable demos of all of the above!!!

HOW DARE THEY!!!! HOW DARE THEY GIVE US FREE SAMPLES THAT GIVE US INSITE INTO THE ENGINE, PLAYABILITY, AND EVEN ONLINE MULTIPLAYER!!!!

THOSE EVIL BLOOD SUCKERS!!! I HATE THEM SO MUCH!

and you know what's worse? YOU KNOW WHAT MAKES ME REALLY MAD????

Many of them then go one EVIL step further and release the source code!

THEY GIVE US THE SOURCE CODE FOR FREE so that online comminities can make levels, textures, models, and even complete mods for the ful games!

HOW EVIL AND GREEDY!!! They could just make the mods for themselves and sell it as an extra, thus gaining more profit but nooooooo! They are SOOOO evil and twisted they let others do it and give the mods away for free!!!!!!!

LETS PUT THEM ALL OUT OF BUSINESS BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE

(please read the above post with a very very very sarcastic tone)

I thank you! Good night

Oh and on an end note.... hands up who knows the price of 3D Studio Max? one of the most wideley used 3D packages for the games industry, which in turn requires the purchase of further plugins) and only 1 of many peices of software reqquired by games companies BEFORE they aven think about wages.
About 2500 UKP (Pounds) last time I looked!(....and we dont want to pay 40 bucks for the game? PAH!

 

[Dracil]

Actually, of that list, I'd really like to commend the developers of Unreal Tournament, who, in their infinite wisdom and insight, removed the copy protections in their later patches to the game, after the game no longer is really selling well. THOSE are the kind of people I happily give my money to. Why? Two reasons.

1) Like some other posters have said, copy protections only hurt the consumers.
2) By making piracy even easier, they ensure that the communities for those games remain big, with lots of mod development, which means a win-win to both sides (as this will inevitably translate to greater sales from their future games)

That being said, copyright laws is, at its very basic level, an argument about greed from both sides. It's really a zero-sum game. Helping one side will invariably hurt the other. The point is to find a balance between the two.

BTW, demos are really nothing more than advertisements.

 

[Dust and Ashes]

Call it stealing all you want. Saying the sky is pink with polka dots on it doesn't make it any more so than calling it stealing. As I've said over and over again, the law agrees with me on this one.

The sky IS pink with polka dots on it. What are you a BLIND thief too?!?!?

 

[Dracil]

-_-

 

[Dust and Ashes]

I think the online ability of many new games helps balance things a bit too. Like Diablo 2, I never bought the game though I did play a pirated copy but lacking the ability to get online and play really limited the game in my eyes as I spent many more hours playing Diablo online than I ever did on the single player game.

 

[CHR15T05]

BTW, demos are really nothing more than advertisements.

Yep of course. lol! Would be silly not to realise that.... but kind of defeats the whole "only pirate to 'test' games" theory though!

MOST demos give more than enough of a sample to let the prospective buyer make a desision.

Yes Epic are GOLDEN with the Unreal Engine (of course if you want to produce a full game with it and sell that game you need to pay for the licencing rights of the engine (bug bucks) and if nothing else, the Unreal Series have served as an advertisment of the power of the engine, to other developing houses more than to the consumer.

But Epic are NOT alone! Half Life Engine, Quake Engine... heck even Grand Theft Auto3 and Vice City have more mods than you can poke a stick at.

The companies could have held all the code, raw files, engine resources close to thier chest so that NO mods were possible by outsiders, thus securing more profit for themselves... but they dont.

I see nothing greedy or evil about the games industry.

But hey, if you really are keen, when I get my games company off the ground, I;ll come looking for you. I would love to employ you for 60 hours a week, late into the night and on weekends... for free

 

[Dracil]

"MOST demos give more than enough of a sample to let the prospective buyer make a desision." - actually something I disagree with. Based on my experience with people, demos are often used to trick people into thinking the real game is good, but is instead of a dud. Companies do actually use this as a crutch.

Actually, Epic releasing the license for free unless you make it into a real game does demonstrate their greed. Why? The opportunity cost of most amateur mods is not worth the time/money spent chasing after them.

It is definitely naive though, to think that companies release these things out of altruistic reasons. In essence, by using this, you are becoming free advertisement for them. This though, I am willing to endure because the gaming community does benefit from this too. But in the back of my mind, I still remember that this is still in the company's self-interest.

So I would argue that, by giving these things out for free, they actually secure *more* long-term profit for themselves than they do guarding it. So regardless how you look at it, it's still for greed.

Thanks but no thanks. Not unless I get full distribution rights for that game too, which means that you *will* get no money out of it (but you still have to pay for whatever licensing fees of whatever engines, and the other team of programmers, artists, musicians, etc. who do want to get paid [single programmers for games are rare nowadays]). And I also get to work at my own pace, even if I am "employed" for 60 hours. (I guess there's really no point in firing me either then ) Oh yeah, you, as you are the employer, will also have to pay for my H-1B visa. I think it's like $1000.

 

[Dracil]

Oh yes, forgot to add. I also get dibs on all the donations (I like the donation model actually for freeware stuff).

 

[CHR15T05]

"MOST demos give more than enough of a sample to let the prospective buyer make a desision." - actually something I disagree with. Based on my experience with people, demos are often used to trick people into thinking the real game is good, but is instead of a dud. Companies do actually use this as a crutch.

YEs there are instances of this agreed, but also PLEANTY that arent. I have played some demos so much that I in fact never purchased the full game, not because the demo was bad, but because the demo was so good and extensive that I never felt I needed the full version. I was getting pleanty of fun from the demo (and there are so many demos supporting online play, if you buy the full version really you are just buying more maps and weapons )

Actually, Epic releasing the license for free unless you make it into a real game does demonstrate their greed. Why? The opportunity cost of most amateur mods is not worth the time/money spent chasing after them.

Erm they dont release the licence for free, just the code, but I think I know what you meant.

It is definitely naive though, to think that companies release these things out of altruistic reasons. In essence, by using this, you are becoming free advertisement for them. This though, I am willing to endure because the gaming community does benefit from this too. But in the back of my mind, I still remember that this is still in the company's self-interest.

I totally agree. Dont think I walk around with my eyes shut pleeeaaase. Hey man, I even think that mobile phone companies developed pre-emptive texting on phones ( when the phone tries to speed up your typing for you) because people were becomeing too good at using initials for thier sentances (like IMHO, BRB, GR8, etc) that they created pre-emptive text, not to help us, but to make us spend MORE money on SMSing. I also think phone companies give us free voice mail so that people ringing NEVER get an engaged tone, they get through and are thus charged for the call. Please realise my eyes are VERY open to the tricks of MOST trades.

So I would argue that, by giving these things out for free, they actually secure *more* long-term profit for themselves than they do guarding it. So regardless how you look at it, it's still for greed.

Greed vs profit? I think we need to create a new thread. Hmm what did Jesus say about the man who burried his talents and made no profit from them?

Thanks but no thanks. Not unless I get full distribution rights for that game too, which means that you *will* get no money out of it (but you still have to pay for whatever licensing fees of whatever engines, and the other team of programmers, artists, musicians, etc. who do want to get paid [single programmers for games are rare nowadays]). And I also get to work at my own pace, even if I am "employed" for 60 hours. Oh yeah, you, as you are the employer, will also have to pay for my H-1B visa. I think it's like $1000.

I find your terms un-acceptable. But hey, I think there are millions of hard working developers out there who would find working for free un-acceptable too... get my point?

Anyway, my hat off to you in 1 thing sir. Throughout this debate we have all kept it fairly abise free if a little heated.

For me, I will bow out because we will go round in circles for sure.

Again, agree to disagree (which makes no sence in principle but hey).

This topic has gone from "Pricacy right or wrong?" to basically... what is greed?
It;s been interesting.

Also, did the orignial poster ever return? Hmm... do you smell bait? :o

 

[Dracil]

Yes, after the moderator intervention, it was a good indicator to keep the discussions cooler. Yes, I do think a topic on greed would be interesting, although it would probably better fit in the philosophy and morality forum.

But for now, definitely agree to disagree.

 

[CHR15T05]

Coolio

Yeah I liked that Mods aprouch. Much better than "This post has been edited by a moderator" with some ticking off in your PM box

 

[cartridge]

CHR15T05, you posted an exceptionally poor selection of games, only 5 of them are any good.

Anyway game piracy has been huge for years, and with the introduction of CD-keys, online gaming, and CD checks piracy I piracy is still on the increase. Yet so are game company profits.

Does that say anything to you?

Even worse is than the games industry for whining is the music industry.

 

[CHR15T05]

CHR15T05, you posted an exceptionally poor selection of games, only 5 of them are any good.

LOL sorry, i missed the part of my post that said "Here is a list of the best games of all time"