Gambleing sin or not?

SUNSTONE · Jan 8, 2003

WHATS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE! YOUR NOT ARGUEING OR FIGHTING OR EVEN BEING RUDE! Didn't I ask you people to be mean and nasty at the begining of the post? And what do I find, a bunch of mature adults talking about in a mature fashion, well it makes me sick!

You.......FREAKS!!!

Jesus Freaks!

Outspoken · Jan 9, 2003

"What about the stock market, especialy now?"

You don't loose all your money, its buying something. A piece of the company, very different thing.

"you should not hide them in the earth but rather use them to God's glory. I don't really see what this has to do with gambling at all."

Exactly, its about using your gifts responsibly, ie not gambling, in my opinion.

cenimo · Jan 9, 2003

You don't loose all your money, its buying something. A piece of the company, very different thing.

You don't lose your money? There are a whole lot of former Enron employees, and investors, that would love to discuss this with you...

A Sheep · Jan 9, 2003

Yes, people can and do lose a whole lot of money on the stock market, but you are technically and literally buying a piece/part/percentage of a company, and it's an investment in the company (which helps the company, more liquified-assets) and is an investment (albeit a risky one) for your stock in said company to increase in value, so you can sell your stock and thereby gaining money on a quasi-sound investment.

Many times the stock's value decreases or even plummets, but you are not simply purchasing a piece of paper/number/chance of winning other people's money, you are purchasing a piece of a company and investing in it for the future (short or long term).

The US stock market is a huge monetary back-bone of the US and it's interaction with other Nations. Now, you may not agree with the US stock market due to the inherent risk involved or you do not feel that it's needed for the US and it's companies/corporations/businesses, but comparing the US stock market to the lotteries in the US is a stretch (to say the least).

SUNSTONE · Jan 9, 2003

The fact is gambling is apart of everyones lives in one form or another. If you invest your money in a business you could lose your money, I heard that only 1out of 5 businesses survive after one year, that is a HUGE risk with your money. I don't think casino odds are even that bad.

Is the stock market a safer risk than regular casino gambleing? I should hope so, but still it is a gamble.

Outspoken · Jan 9, 2003

"You don't lose your money?"

No, you trade it for a product, weather that product is worth the amount you pay is a totally different idea all together.

"I should hope so, but still it is a gamble."
no, its not if you're a smart person, this is not to say you can make millions, but its not a gamble at all.

A Sheep · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
I heard that only 1out of 5 businesses survive after one year, that is a HUGE risk with your money. I don't think casino odds are even that bad.

Source for that statistic?

Even sitting down in a chair is a risk-the chair could break and you would get hurt, but people still sit in chairs. Gambling is different than the stock market or starting a business; gambling is one person (or several people) "winning" the money that thousands to millions of people lose. One can also argue that gambling is not trusting God to provide for you and your family (said in a general sense, not directed at anyone), and it's a fact that many people (even 1 person is too much) commit suicide due to gambling, and many, many families have problems and/or break up due to gambling addictions.

Annabel Lee · Jan 9, 2003

I have family in Las Vegas so I go there regularly. I don't gamble but the atmosphere is fun. But that's just a mask. Underneath there is a lot of suffering which I would definitely attribute to the gambling industry. In my opinion it is not a healthy atmosphere.

I wouldn't say gambling was a sin but I definitely say it could turn into an addiction which could then cause you to sin. (Neglecting your family, lying to cover up lost money etc)

Outspoken · Jan 9, 2003

"I wouldn't say gambling was a sin but I definitely say it could turn into an addiction which could then cause you to sin. (Neglecting your family, lying to cover up lost money etc)"

So you're using the slippery slope on one action and not another? I don't see the logic in this at all.

Annabel Lee · Jan 9, 2003

I have no idea what slippery slope means. I was just giving my opinion of what I've seen and the devastating effects gambling has on lives.

seebs · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by A Sheep
Source for that statistic?

That sounds about right from small business administration numbers. Keep in mind, we're talking one and two person businesses that may or may not even be *intended* to stay in business forever.

seebs · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by Annabel Lee
I have no idea what slippery slope means. I was just giving my opinion of what I've seen and the devastating effects gambling has on lives.

The slippery slope fallacy is the assertion that something inevitably progresses. e.g., "You can't just gamble a little bit for fun, if you start to, you will become addicted and waste all your money".

Of course, that doesn't mean it won't happen - just that it may not always happen. In the case of gambling, it happens often enough to be a problem for some people, but this just means those people shouldn't gamble.

Outspoken · Jan 9, 2003

"I have no idea what slippery slope means. I was just giving my opinion of what I've seen and the devastating effects gambling has on lives.
"

Hmm..I thought you accused me of it awhile back...okay, let me explain..better yet...
http://www.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/phil 110/110definitions.htm#slope

read it there. Just to sum up, your logic is faulty because you can't apply this equally to other things.

cenimo · Jan 9, 2003

A sheep....
on paper, yes, you are right....

in real life situations however, as we have seen, the investors you speak of only contibuted a lot of money, and lost it, to help absolutely despicable people live their high powered lifestyles by ruining the lives of others... while Enron was collapsing, and the CEO's were selling all their shares, they told the employees there was nothing to worry about...and then they locked them out of being able to sell at all....an absolute pit of vipers

Kenneth Lay is but one

you know this Senator in Arizona, McCain? He was one of the Keating Five in the 80's....look it up....the Keating Five allowed a Savings and loan to promise ridiculous return rates on accounts- which they never did...and this wiped out the life savings of many people....Keating, who was the main culprit in all this, by the way, was the Senator who went after Larry Flynt because Flynt was immoral
McCain serves on a Senate Finance Committee....i.e., they gave the keys to the hen house to the fox...

SUNSTONE · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by A Sheep
Source for that statistic?

Even sitting down in a chair is a risk-the chair could break and you would get hurt, but people still sit in chairs. Gambling is different than the stock market or starting a business; gambling is one person (or several people) "winning" the money that thousands to millions of people lose. One can also argue that gambling is not trusting God to provide for you and your family (said in a general sense, not directed at anyone), and it's a fact that many people (even 1 person is too much) commit suicide due to gambling, and many, many families have problems and/or break up due to gambling addictions.

I don't remember where I heard it, but I think it was in business class.

People commit suicide from all kinds on things, stockmarket failure, Jim Jones took out a small town, unhappy marriages. Life is taking chances, that is gambling without money. The best thing we can do is go by what God says to do. And right now He doesn't want me playing poker, becuase of the high risks of lossing at this time, but in the future who knows.

Is it possible that everyone can win at the stockmarket? If so where would the money come from? I am not sure but doesn't it work the same way as casino gambleing? Someone wins and someone losses?

A Sheep · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by cenimo
A sheep....
on paper, yes, you are right....

in real life situations however, as we have seen, the investors you speak of only contibuted a lot of money, and lost it, to help absolutely despicable people live their high powered lifestyles by ruining the lives of others... while Enron was collapsing, and the CEO's were selling all their shares, they told the employees there was nothing to worry about...and then they locked them out of being able to sell at all....an absolute pit of vipers

That was and is wrong and very unfortunate, but that is due to the actions of the higher-ups in Enron (as well as WorldCom, among others) doing illegal and immoral activities. Losing money on stock due to fraud and whatnot of executives, while it's quite unfortunate and the executives must be brought to justice, it would be the exception, not the rule in the stock market realm.

Outspoken · Jan 9, 2003

"that is gambling without money. "

You can control your money, and God controls your life. Would you be happy with God saying, okay, you have a 1 in 5 shot to be saved...lets roll the dice.

Outspoken · Jan 9, 2003

"Is it possible that everyone can win at the stockmarket? "

Yes it is. You invest for a very small gain over a long period of time. YOu CAN'T loose, literally.

A Sheep · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Is it possible that everyone can win at the stockmarket? If so where would the money come from? I am not sure but doesn't it work the same way as casino gambleing? Someone wins and someone losses?

Some investors win and some investors lose-yes, but it's about investing in a company and their future; hopefully the company expands, is succesful and its stock's value increases, thereby making the investment a good one; but it's not simply buying a number/ticket/chance to win a whole lot of money from a whole lot of other people (as in the lottery).

SUNSTONE · Jan 9, 2003

Originally posted by A Sheep
Some investors win and some investors lose-yes, but it's about investing in a company and their future; hopefully the company expands, is succesful and its stock's value increases, thereby making the investment a good one; but it's not simply buying a number/ticket/chance to win a whole lot of money from a whole lot of other people (as in the lottery).

No its not, its about taking a chance on winning money. Some people  do that short sell and hope the company crashes in flames. After all if it did they would make the most from there investment.

Its a gamble, one that has at times effected the entire country and has at one time brung America to its knees, in financial ruin. You ever see the movie "Grapes of Wrath"?

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