Galileo

[Darwin's Bulldog]

Christians adopted the Pagan cosmology jot and tittle The Earth is the center of the universe. The moon, sun, planets and stars go around the Earth in perfect circles attached to perfect celestial spheres -- the heavens had to be perfect because they are the realm of God.

For the ancients, people are composed of body, soul, and divine intellect. At death the soul and intellect ascend to the moon, leaving the outer shell of the body back on Earth. The divine intellect leaves the soul on the moon and rises to the sphere of the sun and God.

For the ancients this wasn't allegory, it was the rational and literal explanation of the physical structure of the universe -- and man's place in it.

For Christians, people are composed of body and soul. At death the soul ascends to heaven, leaving the outer shell of the body back on Earth. The soul ascends to heaven and the sphere of God.

For the Christians for 1700 years this wasn't allegory, it was the rational and literal explanation of the physical structure of the universe -- and man's place in it. So when Galileo saw and described mountains on the moon and moons orbiting Jupiter -- both observable facts disproving the divine perfection of the heavens -- he shook the foundations of the west's three thousand of year old Pagan-Christian cosmology. He published Dialogue on the Two Chief World Systems in 1632; the next year the Church banned the book and tried Galileo for heresy.

If Heaven were a real place, the way the Pagans and early Christians thought, you could see it with a telescope, you could go there. But when you look through a telescope, you don't see Heaven, you see the Earth and planets circling the sun. Now do you see why the Catholic bishops were so highly ****ed at Galileo? His experiments destroyed ideas fundamental to their religion.

Now when you read about God on High and Jesus ascending into heaven and coming down from Heaven, you'll know where the notions comes from.

Do some of you think of Jesus or any heavenly body, as literally comming down to earth from heaven?

 

[JohnR7]

Christians adopted the Pagan cosmology jot and tittle The Earth is the center of the universe.

When you start off with a lie like that, don't expect that people are going to pay any attention to the rest of what your saying.

 

[Volos]

Originally posted by :

Darwin's BulldogChristians adopted the Pagan cosmology jot and tittle The Earth is the center of the universe. The moon, sun, planets and stars go around the Earth in perfect circles attached to perfect celestial spheres -- the heavens had to be perfect because they are the realm of God.

Actually the Christians rejected Pagan Cosmology to construct their own.Among the ancient Greek civilization alone:Leucippus and Democritus both hypothesized the existence of atoms, things to small to be observed.Aristarchus calculated the moon’s diameter with only 8% error (not to shabby) He also coretly identified the fact that the earth moves around the sun,Hipparchus tabulate d1080 fixed stars and correctly identified the visible planets for what they were, IE worlds in orbit around the sun.Eratoshenes calculated the earth’s circumference to within 4%.Ptolemy drew the first accurate maps (compete with the understanding that the earth was a sphere.)
When the roman empire converted to Christianity and subsequently collapsed the above facts were tossed in the garbage because they were not biblical. A lot of historians talk about barbarian invasions, the collapse of the Roam empire, plague and similar things as the cause of the ‘dark ages’ I believe the dark ages were a direct result of the rise of Christianity and Christianity’s purposeful destruction of ancient knowledge and its suppression of both science and literacy.

For the Christians for 1700 years this wasn't allegory, it was the rational and literal explanation of the physical structure of the universe -- and man's place in it. So when Galileo saw and described mountains on the moon and moons orbiting Jupiter -- both observable facts disproving the divine perfection of the heavens -- he shook the foundations of the west's three thousand of year old Pagan-Christian cosmology. He published Dialogue on the Two Chief World Systems in 1632; the next year the Church banned the book and tried Galileo for heresy.

It was the thousand year old foundation. Pagan’s knew better.

If Heaven were a real place, the way the Pagans and early Christians thought, you could see it with a telescope, you could go there. But when you look through a telescope, you don't see Heaven, you see the Earth and planets circling the sun. Now do you see why the Catholic bishops were so highly ****ed at Galileo? His experiments destroyed ideas fundamental to their religion.

Direct observation of spiritual realms is a Christian concept. Pagans left such notions to their fables and storytelling.

 

[Darwin's Bulldog]

Direct observation of spiritual realms is a Christian concept. Pagans left such notions to their fables and storytelling.

I suppose you have studied all pagan religions? I think it would depend more on the individual religion but truely religious greeks truly believed in the real world existence of spirtual realms, take haties or mt olympious. These where thought to be real world places.

 

[Darwin's Bulldog]

When you start off with a lie like that, don't expect that people are going to pay any attention to the rest of what your saying.

I think Volos, makes a valid point that the Catholics adopted it (from the pagan romans), and perhaps the earlier christians followed greek thinking (helocentric).

Regardless it was adopted by catholics, threw the pagan romans, that the universe was geocentric.

So it is not a lie.

 

[JohnR7]

I think Volos, makes a valid point that the Catholics adopted it

It is a urban myth, neither science nor religion ever thought the earth was flat. It is just a myth that gets told so many times that people start to believe it, when there is no truth to it at all.

 

[lucaspa]

Christians adopted the Pagan cosmology jot and tittle The Earth is the center of the universe. The moon, sun, planets and stars go around the Earth in perfect circles attached to perfect celestial spheres -- the heavens had to be perfect because they are the realm of God.

Judeo-Christianity has never had a problem with accepting scientific theories, whether they came from Christian or non-Christian sources. The OT reflects the best science of the day: the Babylonian cosmology. Genesis 1 is set in the cosmology.

Ptolemaic astronomy was THE accepted scientific theory of its day. The problem came when the Church incorporated that scientific theory as part of theology.

For the Christians for 1700 years this wasn't allegory, it was the rational and literal explanation of the physical structure of the universe -- and man's place in it. So when Galileo saw and described mountains on the moon and moons orbiting Jupiter -- both observable facts disproving the divine perfection of the heavens -- he shook the foundations of the west's three thousand of year old Pagan-Christian cosmology. He published Dialogue on the Two Chief World Systems in 1632; the next year the Church banned the book and tried Galileo for heresy.

ANY person challenging the reigning scientific theory comes in for a lot of criticism. That's why Darwin was so cautious about broaching evolution before he was ready: he knew his fellow scientists would not look kindly upon a challenging theory. Shoot, Darwin had savagely criticized Vestiges of Creation for its sloppy science!

So, yes, Galileo challenged the reigning theory. The problem was that Galileo's data was not as good as you make it out to be. The moons of Jupiter only gave an analogical argument for heliocentrism. And analogical arguments are very weak. Heliocentrism at that time used circular orbits for the planets. Under those orbits, heliocentrism is actually WORSE at predicting the observations of the planets from earth than Ptolomaic theory is.

So, Galileo got in trouble only partly for the theological implications. Mostly he was in trouble because the data didn't fit the theory and yet Galileo dogmatically insisted the theory was correct. The better comparison would be to Velikovsky.

 

[Darwin's Bulldog]

It is a urban myth, neither science nor religion ever thought the earth was flat. It is just a myth that gets told so many times that people start to believe it, when there is no truth to it at all.

lol? are you serious? don't you know everyone! thought columbus was going to sail off the side of the earth, that's why his own country wouldn't give him money! he had to go to SPAIN!!!!

are you being serious, or do i have to find some quotes? but it was the church's offical position that the earth was flat, i even have pictures in my bible if you wish to see them! you can come over for some flat earth coffie.

 

[JohnR7]

lol? are you serious? don't you know everyone! thought columbus was going to sail off the side of the earth, that's why his own country wouldn't give him money! he had to go to SPAIN!!!!

are you being serious, or do i have to find some quotes? but it was the church's offical position that the earth was flat, i even have pictures in my bible if you wish to see them! you can come over for some flat earth coffie.

Better start diggin up your evidence.

 

[Darwin's Bulldog]

ok, not everyone i got a little excited, but you should look in some of the older bibles they have a "geographical diagram of the earth."

 

[Darwin's Bulldog]

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

 

[MartinM]

lol? are you serious? don't you know everyone! thought columbus was going to sail off the side of the earth, that's why his own country wouldn't give him money! he had to go to SPAIN!!!!

Actually, everyone thought his voyage would fail because he had grossly underestimated the circumference of the Earth. Colombus was an arrogant prat who **** nearly got his entire crew killed because he didn't listen to people who actually knew what they were talking about. The silly fool just got lucky.

 

[JohnR7]

ok, not everyone i got a little excited, but you should look in some of the older bibles they have a "geographical diagram of the earth."

A good place to start would be Pythagoras

 

[Darwin's Bulldog]

Actually, everyone thought his voyage would fail because he had grossly underestimated the circumference of the Earth. Colombus was an arrogant prat who **** nearly got his entire crew killed because he didn't listen to people who actually knew what they were talking about. The silly fool just got lucky.

trust me i'm not standing up for the evangelical force indians to covert pirate. But many in the "western society" thought he would fall of the face of the earth. where do you get this notion that anyone was studing the circumfrance of the earth? the ancient greeks had been called liars. And it was blaspheme, bunishable by death to suggest the earth was round. Columbus claimed he was trying to find a trade rout with china. He felt the earth was round, but never said before he set sail "the earth is round i will prove it!"

 

[pudmuddle]

http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Heliocentric.html#s7

 

[Darwin's Bulldog]

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”


Job 9:8, “...who by himself spread out the heavens [shamayim]...”

Psalm 19:1, “The heavens [shamayim] tell out the glory of God, the vault of heaven [raqiya] reveals his handiwork.”

Psalm 102:25, “...the heavens [shamayim] were thy handiwork.”

Isaiah 45:12, “I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine...”

Isaiah 48:13, “...with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky [shamayim]...”
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

 

[lucaspa]

It is a urban myth, neither science nor religion ever thought the earth was flat. It is just a myth that gets told so many times that people start to believe it, when there is no truth to it at all.

Then why do you have the book Christian Topography by Cosmas Indocopleutes published in 550 AD that spells out a flat earth based on passages from the Bible?

 

[lucaspa]

http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Heliocentric.html#s7

I'm somewhat surprised that you posted this.

1. It supports Bulldog's position that Christianity absorbed pagan ideas.
2. It has several quotes from St. Augustine arguing against a literal Genesis, which you espouse in other threads.

 

[JohnR7]

Then why do you have the book Christian Topography by Cosmas Indocopleutes published in 550 AD that spells out a flat earth based on passages from the Bible?

That would be like asking George the Mechanic what his opinion is of Biology. Cosmas was known for his travels and his tales of far away lands. He had no training in astronomy, nor did anyone take him serious. People most likely thought most of his stuff was fiction. Right up there with tales of Mermaids and Sea Dragons.

Do you want to talk about science or science fiction?

 

[ThePhoenix]

trust me i'm not standing up for the evangelical force indians to covert pirate. But many in the "western society" thought he would fall of the face of the earth. where do you get this notion that anyone was studing the circumfrance of the earth? the ancient greeks had been called liars. And it was blaspheme, bunishable by death to suggest the earth was round. Columbus claimed he was trying to find a trade rout with china. He felt the earth was round, but never said before he set sail "the earth is round i will prove it!"

Where do you get this info? Hate to tell you, Hollywood is a BAD source. Your own imagination is worse. It was generally accepted among educated men and women that the world was round in the 1400s.