Galatians

[Johnnz]

Good luck with that. Give me Galatians and grace. You can keep the legalism and the law.LST

And so say many of us too. We are to live out of The Life, not out of ticking boxes for our compliance to external laws. Our relationship is with the Triune God, participating in their mutual love and delight.

John
NZ

 

[drobbyb]

Gal 5:4 Those of you who are trying to be justified by the Law have been cut off from the Messiah. You have fallen away from grace.
Gal 5:5 Through the Spirit by faith we confidently await the fulfillment of our righteous hope,
Gal 5:6 for in union with the Messiah Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision matters. What matters is faith expressed through love.

The word of the Lord speaks for itself, no need to explain it further.

 

[Elder 111]

Well you win. The above passage clearly show we must follow all 850 laws found in the bible. Woe is me, and here I thought Galatians and Romans were real books of the canon and now I discover they must be fakes, and I guess when we are told in the NT the Jesus fulfilled the OT covenant He actually didn't.

Well now I've got to buy all new clothing, I must quit eating pork, cheeseburgers, shrimp, and catfish, I will not be able to plant tomatoes and beans in my garden ever again, and I'm going to have to find a church within walking distance that worships on Saturday, and I'm not sure how the boss is going to respond when I tell him I can no longer work from Friday at sundown until Saturday at sundown. Hopefully I will be able to get a yarmulke, but I'm not sure what to do with it at church because men are not supposed to pray with their heads covered according to 1 Corinthians. Wait, I know, I will simply remove that book along with Romans and Galatians from my bible.

LST

If you let God word speak to your heart and not try to speak your heart into God's word you would not have to get rid of Roman and Galatians. The point is made clear in Romans that the law is holy just and good. Romans 7:12. Nowhere in the bible does it states that the ten commandments including the Sabbath is abolished or removed. No Christian would accept that stealing or adultery is OK.
From the books mentioned in particular, I understand:

1. The ceremonial aspect of the law does not remove sin. all sins are forgiven in and by the death of Christ. that is from Adam to the last man that will live on this earth. Rev. 13:8
   And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
2. Obedience to the ten commandments are required but that obedience is not the means of salvation. Again Christ is, because we all have sinned and there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood. The blood of Christ. This is applied by our faith in the free grace of God. Rom. 5:20 says Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. It is clear here that grace is present because of sin, and is it clear that there is no sin if there are no ten commandments. No Grace if there is no law .

Study it prayfully. This not about you or me or denomination or any other thing. This is about knowing the will of God unto salvation.

 

[Elder 111]

1Jn 3:4 Everyone who keeps living in sin also practices disobedience. In fact, sin is disobedience.

I see nothing here that says you must keep all the commandments

Jn 3:16 This is how we have come to know love: the Messiah gave his life for us. We, too, ought to give our lives for our brothers.
1Jn 3:17 Whoever has earthly possessions and notices a brother in need and yet withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God be present in him?
1Jn 3:18 Little children, we must stop expressing love merely by our words and manner of speech; we must love also in action and in truth.
1Jn 3:19 This is how we will know that we belong to the truth and how we will be able to keep ourselves strong in his presence.
1Jn 3:20 If our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts and knows everything.
1Jn 3:21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence in the presence of God.
1Jn 3:22 Whatever we request we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus the Messiah, and to love one another as he commanded us.
1Jn 3:24 The person who keeps his commandments abides in God, and God abides in him. This is how we can be sure that he remains in us: he has given us his Spirit.


If you read further through 1 John we see in verse 23 what commandment is being discussed here, although I don't think the point is freedom to do whatever you want.

God gave us a way to Heaven by sending Jesus, and Jesus taught us how we should worship, love, and live. It is humanly impossible for us to keep all of the laws, otherwise we wouldn't have needed Jesus to pay for our sins.

Jesus came to die for our sins. For our breaking of the law not to remove the law. Mat 5:17 &18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The ten commandments is not a problem for us Christians except for the Fourth. Jesus not even a dot or the crossing of a "t" shall be removed. Can we therefore stand before Him guiltless?

 

[Elder 111]

1 John 3:4 "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness." What John means in this verse is sin at its most basic root is a disregard for the law of God, which is inherently a disregard for the law Maker, God Himself. So every time we sin we sin against God. So how many times do I sin in a day? A bunch, why just this morning I saw an attractive young lady at breakfast and my eyes wandered for just a second: SIN. This "new" law was one added by Jesus. In the OT you had to actually have sexual intercourse before you were guilty of adultery, but now in the NT all you need to do is to have an impure thought about a woman and you are guilty of adultery. So you see we are doomed. We MUST follow all 613 of God's laws found in the OT 100% of the time and unfortunately Jesus and His apostles added several hundred more so now we have at least 850 commandments that must be followed 100% of the time without ANY excuses.


Good luck with that. Give me Galatians and grace. You can keep the legalism and the law.

LST

Jesus did not add anything new. The point is made that all sins starts in the heart before it is acted out. The sin is first conceived then committed. He just used adultery to make the point.
It is also said that He gave new laws of love. He did not Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.

 

[LST 1154]

Jesus did not add anything new. The point is made that all sins starts in the heart before it is acted out. The sin is first conceived then committed. He just used adultery to make the point.
It is also said that He gave new laws of love. He did not Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.

If you read my post I said the "new" law that Jesus added was lusting after a woman is now considered adultery. Under the old law it took the actual act. Matt 5:27-28 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

The "ten" commandments were given to the Israelites. Nine of the ten are repeated in the NT. One is missing! That means either the NT writers inadvertantly left one out or it was left out on purpose. Perhaps you would like to add it back in? OR maybe it is no longer a valid commandment; OR since it is in the bible we need to follow it also. If we decide that it needs to be followed also, then we will need to follow all of the other 613 commands found in the OT. Like I said before have at it, but you had better remove Galatians from your bible as it opposes just about everything you have written in this thread.

LST

 

[LifeInJesus]

Funny but I simply have not been able to find that elusive passage where Jesus said "we [or you] must follow the ten commandments" would you please show me where He said these EXACT words verbatim?

Hint, you cannot find it because Jesus never stated anywhere that we are to follow the ten commandments. He DID say in Mark 10:19 "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother." I count six there, not ten and He said in John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Note MY commandments not the ten commandments.

In fact there are 613 commandments in the OT and there are about 237 more in the NT so we have about 850 of them to follow 100% of the time and we must do it perfectly according to you. The truth is "we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." (Gal 2:6) Hmm, no one will be justified by works? But of course He will make an exception for you right, as you faithfully follow all 850 commandments? Yeah right.

Newbie? I got saved in 1975 which was probably before you were even born.

LST

The 613 commands are Moses' commands not God's commands. When Jesus was asked "what are the most important commandments?" He replied with two commandments from the 10 that God gave to Moses. Obviously He expects us to obey them along with the rest. So it's actually 8 and quite likely, when Jesus gave the 6 - He was simply quoting these first few to make them remember the rest and He acknowledges that they did and as shown there, He tell us to know them because they are important.

It doesn't matter if you became Christian before I was born. My soul (like yours) is older than creation for it is the essence of God. Don't consider yourself superior to me, Charles Darwin was Christian for many many years but ended up inventing the biggest lie in history and denied the Christian faith after that.

So know The Bible and next time do your research please.

BTW - faith without works IS DEAD. You need to read the whole Bible before you come to conclusions on what verses mean because some verses connect with one another.

 

[LST 1154]

The 613 commands are Moses' commands not God's commands. When Jesus was asked "what are the most important commandments?" He replied with two commandments from the 10 that God gave to Moses. Obviously He expects us to obey them along with the rest. So it's actually 8 and quite likely, when Jesus gave the 6 - He was simply quoting these first few to make them remember the rest and He acknowledges that they did and as shown there, He tell us to know them because they are important.

It doesn't matter if you became Christian before I was born. My soul (like yours) is older than creation for it is the essence of God. Don't consider yourself superior to me, Charles Darwin was Christian for many many years but ended up inventing the biggest lie in history and denied the Christian faith after that.

So know The Bible and next time do your research please.

BTW - faith without works IS DEAD. You need to read the whole Bible before you come to conclusions on what verses mean because some verses connect with one another.

Wow, foolish me, here I've been under the distinct impression that we now live under the new covenant and that Jesus had fulfilled the old covenant. How silly of me. So we don't have to follow any of the "commands" of Moses huh? Exactly which commands in the OT are of Moses, and which are of Gods? I need to know. Oh one of the "10" given to Moses by God is to honor the Sabbath, so I assume you attend worship services on Saturday? And you don't do any work from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday? NO WORK. NOTHING can be done on the Sabbath. You can't even change the TV station, drive a car, turn the lights on or off, NUTTIN.

I can see you have got lots to learn. I used to be a smart alec young Christian thinking I knew everything about the bible and letting everyone know that I knew a lot about the bible. Then the Holy Spirit touched me. Hopefully He will touch you also.

LST

 

[drobbyb]

Luk 10:25 Just then an expert in the Law stood up to test Jesus. He asked, "Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luk 10:26 Jesus answered him, "What is written in the Law? What do you read there?"
Luk 10:27 He answered, "You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind. And you must love your neighbor as yourself."
Luk 10:28 Jesus told him, "You have answered correctly. 'Do this, and you will live.'"

 

[LST 1154]

Luk 10:25 Just then an expert in the Law stood up to test Jesus. He asked, "Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luk 10:26 Jesus answered him, "What is written in the Law? What do you read there?"
Luk 10:27 He answered, "You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind. And you must love your neighbor as yourself."
Luk 10:28 Jesus told him, "You have answered correctly. 'Do this, and you will live.'"

Before we get too far, I assume you know Jesus lived under the old covenant, right? And He was answering this question to another person who was living under the old covenant right? Good, now as I was saying under the old covenant you had to follow all of the laws, statutes, rules, percepts, commands, righteous decrees and judgments found in the law and prophets (law and prophets is a nice way of saying all of the OT.) So we are good so far, I hope. Guess what? Christ's death and resurrection brought about a new covenant! Good news huh? We now have a new set of rules, and Jesus was informing this man that since He is God, He was going to institute a new set of rules shortly of which there are only two, not 613. "Love God and love your neighbor." Pretty simply and yet so very very very difficult. I don't have any problem loving God. My problem is loving others like I should. Good thing I live under grace and not under the law.

LST

 

[Elder 111]

If you read my post I said the "new" law that Jesus added was lusting after a woman is now considered adultery. Under the old law it took the actual act. Matt 5:27-28 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

The "ten" commandments were given to the Israelites. Nine of the ten are repeated in the NT. One is missing! That means either the NT writers inadvertantly left one out or it was left out on purpose. Perhaps you would like to add it back in? OR maybe it is no longer a valid commandment; OR since it is in the bible we need to follow it also. If we decide that it needs to be followed also, then we will need to follow all of the other 613 commands found in the OT. Like I said before have at it, but you had better remove Galatians from your bible as it opposes just about everything you have written in this thread.

LST

You missed my point. I am saying that the adultery starts in the heart before the act is completed with someone. That is the point that Jesus was making, therefore it is not new. Anything we do we have to first enter the mind.
Which commandment is not mentioned in the NT?

 

[LST 1154]

You missed my point. I am saying that the adultery starts in the heart before the act is completed with someone. That is the point that Jesus was making, therefore it is not new. Anything we do we have to first enter the mind.
Which commandment is not mentioned in the NT?

Agreed, Elder.

The "missing" command of the "ten commandments" in the NT is Ex 20:8-10 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates."

The "Sabbath" starts Friday at sundown and ends Saturday at sundown. My Jewish nephew will not do any of the following on the Sabbath: Drive a car. Change the TV station or press any button. If he is on an elevator someone else MUST push the button for his floor. Flip any switch, such as the light switch either on or off. Answer the telephone (can't push the "accept" button) and that is just for starters.

In my business Saturdays are usually my busiest.

LST

 

[Elder 111]

Agreed, Elder.

The "missing" command of the "ten commandments" in the NT is Ex 20:8-10 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates."

The "Sabbath" starts Friday at sundown and ends Saturday at sundown. My Jewish nephew will not do any of the following on the Sabbath: Drive a car. Change the TV station or press any button. If he is on an elevator someone else MUST push the button for his floor. Flip any switch, such as the light switch either on or off. Answer the telephone (can't push the "accept" button) and that is just for starters.

In my business Saturdays are usually my busiest.

LST

I will suggest to you that that wish you do I do not have to remind you to do.

Acts 13:14
But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Acts 13:27
For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
Acts 13:41-43 (King James Version)


41Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
42And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.


44And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act 15:
20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Not Abstain from the Sabbath.


Acts 16:12-14 (King James Version)


12And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
13And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts 17:1-3 (King James Version)

Acts 17

1Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 18:3-5 (King James Version)


3And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.
4And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.



What more do you need?

 

[Elder 111]

Agreed, Elder.

The "missing" command of the "ten commandments" in the NT is Ex 20:8-10 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates."

The "Sabbath" starts Friday at sundown and ends Saturday at sundown. My Jewish nephew will not do any of the following on the Sabbath: Drive a car. Change the TV station or press any button. If he is on an elevator someone else MUST push the button for his floor. Flip any switch, such as the light switch either on or off. Answer the telephone (can't push the "accept" button) and that is just for starters.

In my business Saturdays are usually my busiest.

LST

The sabbath as kept by the Jews and as described of your nephew is not the sabbath that Christ would have. Jesus made that clear.

 

[LST 1154]

A buddy invited me to go fishing one time. He said the water was so clear you could easily see the bottom and therefore one could easily see the fish. I got my pole and some worms and drove to his house. He said he was ready to go and so I followed him.....into his bathroom! Here the bathtub was full of crystal clear water, just as he said, but there were no fish. I suggested that we ought to go down to the river where there were fish in the water but he said since he can't see into the water how do I know there are fish there. I told him I know there are fish there because I have been fishing there before. Paul knew where to "fish." Why go to the synagogue on Sunday or Thursday when the only person there was the janitor? Paul went when he knew he would have an audience. Also the Christian church at that time was a sect of Judiasm so of course they will meet on the Sabbath.

LST

 

[Johnnz]

Obviously The Holy Spirit hasn't touched you because you are full of pride, hate and ignorance. Yes, I do honor the Sabbath like most true Christians and the part about not lighting a fire was Moses' own words just like John 3:16 is John's own words. Not every word in The Bible is God's word or Jesus' words.

You couldn't answer what I said so I'll take it that you will never be able to answer. The fact is, Jesus claimed that the 10 commandments were important and expected us to follow them. In fact, He claimed that just thinking about a women is adultery - His commands are harder to follow that God's commands but you obviously know nothing about that. I bet you lust all the time and think it's natural? Do you also believe in evolution? If you think about a woman (not your wife) sexually, you have broken all of the commandments. Thus spoke Jesus.

The 10 commandments were part of the Mosaic covenant (the law) that was superceded by the New. But their essence forms what is often referred to as 'the moral law' principles that most people accept in varying degrees as basic for their sense of morality. Abel's murder of Cain,long before Sinai, is a good example.

Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the Mosaic Covenant, and as and such could become our sacrifice and saviour. His comments about the law remaining were never meant to teach that the old Mosaic Covenant was to continue after his death. The NT writers clearly understood that. All their references to 'works' was a shorthand for 'works of the law' i.e. following the Mosaic Covenant.

John
NZ

 

[LST 1154]

Obviously The Holy Spirit hasn't touched you because you are full of pride, hate and ignorance. Yes, I do honor the Sabbath like most true Christians and the part about not lighting a fire was Moses' own words just like John 3:16 is John's own words. Not every word in The Bible is God's word or Jesus' words.

You couldn't answer what I said so I'll take it that you will never be able to answer. The fact is, Jesus claimed that the 10 commandments were important and expected us to follow them. In fact, He claimed that just thinking about a women is adultery - His commands are harder to follow that God's commands but you obviously know nothing about that. I bet you lust all the time and think it's natural? Do you also believe in evolution? If you think about a woman (not your wife) sexually, you have broken all of the commandments. Thus spoke Jesus.

I appreciate you taking the time to judge my intentions and motives, but right now I am preparing everything for my surgery on Friday, si I will be out of commission for awhile.

LST

 

[Johnnz]

Hope surgery goes well for you.

John
NZ

 

[Elder 111]

A buddy invited me to go fishing one time. He said the water was so clear you could easily see the bottom and therefore one could easily see the fish. I got my pole and some worms and drove to his house. He said he was ready to go and so I followed him.....into his bathroom! Here the bathtub was full of crystal clear water, just as he said, but there were no fish. I suggested that we ought to go down to the river where there were fish in the water but he said since he can't see into the water how do I know there are fish there. I told him I know there are fish there because I have been fishing there before. Paul knew where to "fish." Why go to the synagogue on Sunday or Thursday when the only person there was the janitor? Paul went when he knew he would have an audience. Also the Christian church at that time was a sect of Judiasm so of course they will meet on the Sabbath.

LST

Ha Ha. That is all you see. The Greeks did not have to be there. Were they fishing too?

 

[LST 1154]

Hope surgery goes well for you.

John
NZ

Thanks John,

This will be major surgery # 3. I think they are running out of parts that can be replaced, removed and not replaced or otherwise not needed when one gets my age!

My motto is "doing the best I can with what I have left."

For a real thrill one needs to see the metal detectors go off the scale when I go through one at the airport.

I've tried to lose weight but all those stainless steel parts are twice as heavy as the bones they replaced.

LST

P.S. I assume your "NZ" after your name means you live in New Zealand. I have been praying for those poor people who are buried in Christchurch that they will be located before it is too late, may our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ be with them.