Galatians

[drobbyb]

I was just reading through Galatians this morning and a few verses stuck out to me.


Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Gal 5:5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

Gal 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Gal 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.
Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[addo]

Amen!

 

[MrPolo]

you have fallen away from grace.

It's bad when that happens.

 

[Johnnz]

What conclusions did you draw from those verses?

John
NZ

 

[LST 1154]

I was just reading through Galatians this morning and a few verses stuck out to me.


Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Gal 5:5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

Gal 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Gal 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.
Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

This was written to a group of people who lived in Galatia who were being infiltrated by some men who taught that Christians must not only follow all of the writings of the apostles [The NT] but also all of the OT laws as well. The apostle Paul was exposing their lies for what they are, and guess what? We STILL have these wackos today. EVERY Christian forum I visit has someone who spouts off we MUST follow "The Ten Commandments" (actually there are 613 of them) or we are doomed.

PRAISE GOD FOR THE BOOK OF GALATIANS.

LST

 

[drobbyb]

What conclusions did you draw from those verses?

John
NZ

To love.

Actually, there are 613 Laws in the OT, but there are almost 1100 in the NT according to the Masionic Jews.



When Paul wrote this, he gave us great freedom! This is good news!

Imagine if all you ever did was try and keep the law. Some people (myself included) would be so preoccupied with trying to do things right that I would not be able to do God's work. When Paul wrote this letter he was saying not to be so taken with trying to obey the Law. Paul himself persecuted people for not obeying the law, but God changed him. Paul is simply sharing his knowledge with that church of Galatia (and in turn, the world.)

If anyone was taught by God about the Law, it was surely Paul.



With Love,
Robby

 

[LST 1154]

I asked my Jewish nephew several weeks ago "How does a Jew become righteous in God's eyes?"

His answer blew me away. So what did he say? I was POSITIVE he was going to say "by keeping all 613 commands found in the Old Testament." But that is NOT what he said. So what did he say? (I know the suspense is KILLING you).................................................................................................he said "The same way Abraham did, by faith in God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

LST

 

[Slaol121]

These verses show that it is possible to fall away from grace when you adopt false doctrine.

 

[LST 1154]

I guess Jesus is a wacko according to you. Jesus said we must follow the Ten Commandments and that there were two important ones:

"Love God with all your heart and soul." and "Love thy neighbor as you love thyself."

You must be one of these idiots who thinks everyone goes to Heaven after accepting Christ. NOPE! When Christ forgave He said "Go and sin no more" so to enter Heaven, we must walk in Christ's footsteps and if we do sin but are generally sorry, Christ will forgive us. Learn newbie and you shall see. Do not follow the route of the godless.

Remember that Jesus said "He had come to fulfill the law, not to change them.". To live a good life, you must obey the 10 Commandments like Jesus did. If Jesus obeyed them, why shouldn't we? Jesus said that He is our master and that we should act like Him.

If someone accepts Christ but then murders and is not sorry for what they have done, they are not Christian. Sorry wackos that want to murder but Hell awaits you unless you repent.

Funny but I simply have not been able to find that elusive passage where Jesus said "we [or you] must follow the ten commandments" would you please show me where He said these EXACT words verbatim?

Hint, you cannot find it because Jesus never stated anywhere that we are to follow the ten commandments. He DID say in Mark 10:19 "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother." I count six there, not ten and He said in John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Note MY commandments not the ten commandments.

In fact there are 613 commandments in the OT and there are about 237 more in the NT so we have about 850 of them to follow 100% of the time and we must do it perfectly according to you. The truth is "we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." (Gal 2:6) Hmm, no one will be justified by works? But of course He will make an exception for you right, as you faithfully follow all 850 commandments? Yeah right.

Newbie? I got saved in 1975 which was probably before you were even born.

LST

 

[drobbyb]

I guess Jesus is a wacko according to you. Jesus said we must follow the Ten Commandments and that there were two important ones:

"Love God with all your heart and soul." and "Love thy neighbor as you love thyself."

You must be one of these idiots who thinks everyone goes to Heaven after accepting Christ. NOPE! When Christ forgave He said "Go and sin no more" so to enter Heaven, we must walk in Christ's footsteps and if we do sin but are generally sorry, Christ will forgive us. Learn newbie and you shall see. Do not follow the route of the godless.

Remember that Jesus said "He had come to fulfill the law, not to change them.". To live a good life, you must obey the 10 Commandments like Jesus did. If Jesus obeyed them, why shouldn't we? Jesus said that He is our master and that we should act like Him.

If someone accepts Christ but then murders and is not sorry for what they have done, they are not Christian. Sorry wackos that want to murder but Hell awaits you unless you repent.

Jas 1:26 You might think you are a very religious person. But if your tongue is out of control, you are fooling yourself. Your careless talk makes your offerings to God worthless.

Be careful how you say things and interact with people, especially on a public forum. Since there is no voice to take clues from for connotation, the way you typed that seemed like you were belittling LST by insinuating LST was an idiot and calling LST a newbie.

You must be one of these idiots who thinks everyone goes to Heaven after accepting Christ. NOPE! When Christ forgave He said "Go and sin no more" so to enter Heaven, we must walk in Christ's footsteps and if we do sin but are generally sorry, Christ will forgive us. Learn newbie and you shall see. Do not follow the route of the godless.

So you are saying that anyone who does not believe exactly as you is an idiot, a newbie, and godless? Sure there is truth to what you say, but delivering God's word in this manner is a slap in the face to the author.

Romans chapter 14 talks about this.


Rom 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
Rom 14:3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
Rom 14:7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself.
Rom 14:8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
Rom 14:10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
Rom 14:11 for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
Rom 14:12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
Rom 14:14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.
Rom 14:15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Rom 14:18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
Rom 14:19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
Rom 14:20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats.
Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.
Rom 14:22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.
Rom 14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.


We all have our own walk. What may be wrong for one might not be wrong for another, and God will convict each and every soul in His time. I'm not saying that this makes all things okay, but as far as taking some of our liberties as Christians, some of these may be okay for you as long as they do not cause another to stumble. If you have doubts about something being a sin, then for you it is a sin. But for another this may not be the case.

"Love God with all your heart and soul." and "Love thy neighbor as you love thyself."

The funny thing is that in this instance you didn't show much love to LST, and yet you quote a scripture that commands us to love.


Mat 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
Mat 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?
Mat 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.


You must have tact and show love in every word that comes from your mouth (or fingers in the case of the internet lol.) I understand that nobody is perfect, but we learn from our mistakes.


With love
Robby

 

[Elder 111]

Funny but I simply have not been able to find that elusive passage where Jesus said "we [or you] must follow the ten commandments" would you please show me where He said these EXACT words verbatim?

Hint, you cannot find it because Jesus never stated anywhere that we are to follow the ten commandments. He DID say in Mark 10:19 "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother." I count six there, not ten and He said in John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Note MY commandments not the ten commandments.

In fact there are 613 commandments in the OT and there are about 237 more in the NT so we have about 850 of them to follow 100% of the time and we must do it perfectly according to you. The truth is "we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." (Gal 2:6) Hmm, no one will be justified by works? But of course He will make an exception for you right, as you faithfully follow all 850 commandments? Yeah right.

Newbie? I got saved in 1975 which was probably before you were even born.

LST

Hi. It is greatly appreciated to know that I will not burn in hell for not keeping the Ten Commandments.
I have this girl who is always inviting me to sexually activities and have even attempted to belittle me by accusing me of still being a virgin.
Now I know that I can take up her offer and still be entitled to salvation by the grace that God supplies.
I can do so instead of going to church. It will not matter when because in Matthew 10, Jesus did not even mention about putting God first or worship Him only.

 

[LST 1154]

You don't have to keep the ten commandments, you have to keep all 850 of them, OR you can read and believe the book of Galatians then you will not have to worry about whether you are sinning when you are wearing clothing of a mixed thread, when you changed the TV station or when you turned the room lights on or when you drove anywhere on the Sabbath. I do hope you have not trimmed the edges of your beard or cut yourself while shaving as these too are sins. Did you have any pork, shrimp or catfish this past week? To eat any of them is SIN. Hopefully while at work you have not heard anyone using God's name in vain, if you have you must stone him to death. However I'm not sure the judge or jury will let you off scott free just because God said in Leviticus that you are to kill someone for blaspheming God's name, but if you want to give it a try, go ahead I guess as I visit prisons and jails rather frequently. Be sure and let me know what prison and be sure and give me your inmate number.

So your GF wants sex huh. If she wants sex I'm about 99% sure you will oblige her, regardless of whether it is a sin or not.

LST

 

[Elder 111]

You don't have to keep the ten commandments, you have to keep all 850 of them, OR you can read and believe the book of Galatians then you will not have to worry about whether you are sinning when you are wearing clothing of a mixed thread, when you changed the TV station or when you turned the room lights on or when you drove anywhere on the Sabbath. I do hope you have not trimmed the edges of your beard or cut yourself while shaving as these too are sins. Did you have any pork, shrimp or catfish this past week? To eat any of them is SIN. Hopefully while at work you have not heard anyone using God's name in vain, if you have you must stone him to death. However I'm not sure the judge or jury will let you off scott free just because God said in Leviticus that you are to kill someone for blaspheming God's name, but if you want to give it a try, go ahead I guess as I visit prisons and jails rather frequently. Be sure and let me know what prison and be sure and give me your inmate number.

So your GF wants sex huh. If she wants sex I'm about 99% sure you will oblige her, regardless of whether it is a sin or not.

LST

Not my GF. Just a girl. Then you admit that it is OK? You promise that I will not burn in hell for it.

 

[LST 1154]

Not my GF. Just a girl. Then you admit that it is OK? You promise that I will not burn in hell for it.

Give me a break, we both know sex outside of marriage is a sin. Read 1 Cor 7 for starters.

LST

 

[Elder 111]

Give me a break, we both know sex outside of marriage is a sin. Read 1 Cor 7 for starters.

LST

But you said that the law is abolished even the ten commandments. The definition of sin is that it is a transgression of the law, John 3:4. What are you trying to tell me then?

 

[LST 1154]

But you said that the law is abolished even the ten commandments. The definition of sin is that it is a transgression of the law, John 3:4. What are you trying to tell me then?

First of all the Old Testament law with its doctrines, prophecies, and moral/ethical ordinances (and precepts) has been completely fulfilled by Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled the doctrinal teachings of the law in that He brought full revelation. Jesus fulfilled the predictive prophecy of the law in that He is the Promised One, showing the reality behind the shadows. Jesus fulfilled the ethical precepts of the law in that He fully obeyed them and He reinterpreted them in their truth. So what does the word "fulfilled" mean? Fulfilled:
1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete

Jesus brought to an end, completed, satisfied, fulfilled all of the requirements found in the OT law, and when we place our faith in Him we are no longer under the OT law. Romans 3:28 "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." Romans 6:14 "For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace." Romans 7:6 "But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 8:3-4 "For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

I assume you will now ignore everything I've written and stick to your OT law keeping. Actually we both know you have never kept nor will you ever keep nor can you keep all of the laws for it is impossible, but go ahead and try but keep in mind "For by works of the law no human being will be justified in His sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20. Gal 3:10 "For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."

So you are cursed (unless you keep all 850 laws 100% of the time) and even if you could you still will not be justified by keeping the law. Bad news for law keepers like yourself.

LST

 

[Elder 111]

First of all the Old Testament law with its doctrines, prophecies, and moral/ethical ordinances (and precepts) has been completely fulfilled by Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled the doctrinal teachings of the law in that He brought full revelation. Jesus fulfilled the predictive prophecy of the law in that He is the Promised One, showing the reality behind the shadows. Jesus fulfilled the ethical precepts of the law in that He fully obeyed them and He reinterpreted them in their truth. So what does the word "fulfilled" mean? Fulfilled:
1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete

Jesus brought to an end, completed, satisfied, fulfilled all of the requirements found in the OT law, and when we place our faith in Him we are no longer under the OT law. Romans 3:28 "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." Romans 6:14 "For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace." Romans 7:6 "But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 8:3-4 "For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

I assume you will now ignore everything I've written and stick to your OT law keeping. Actually we both know you have never kept nor will you ever keep nor can you keep all of the laws for it is impossible, but go ahead and try but keep in mind "For by works of the law no human being will be justified in His sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20. Gal 3:10 "For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."

So you are cursed (unless you keep all 850 laws 100% of the time) and even if you could you still will not be justified by keeping the law. Bad news for law keepers like yourself.

LST

Please explain 1John 3:4 in light of the above? How does it fit in?

 

[LST 1154]

Please explain 1John 3:4 in light of the above? How does it fit in?

Well you win. The above passage clearly show we must follow all 850 laws found in the bible. Woe is me, and here I thought Galatians and Romans were real books of the canon and now I discover they must be fakes, and I guess when we are told in the NT the Jesus fulfilled the OT covenant He actually didn't.

Well now I've got to buy all new clothing, I must quit eating pork, cheeseburgers, shrimp, and catfish, I will not be able to plant tomatoes and beans in my garden ever again, and I'm going to have to find a church within walking distance that worships on Saturday, and I'm not sure how the boss is going to respond when I tell him I can no longer work from Friday at sundown until Saturday at sundown. Hopefully I will be able to get a yarmulke, but I'm not sure what to do with it at church because men are not supposed to pray with their heads covered according to 1 Corinthians. Wait, I know, I will simply remove that book along with Romans and Galatians from my bible.

LST

 

[drobbyb]

1Jn 3:4 Everyone who keeps living in sin also practices disobedience. In fact, sin is disobedience.

I see nothing here that says you must keep all the commandments

Jn 3:16 This is how we have come to know love: the Messiah gave his life for us. We, too, ought to give our lives for our brothers.
1Jn 3:17 Whoever has earthly possessions and notices a brother in need and yet withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God be present in him?
1Jn 3:18 Little children, we must stop expressing love merely by our words and manner of speech; we must love also in action and in truth.
1Jn 3:19 This is how we will know that we belong to the truth and how we will be able to keep ourselves strong in his presence.
1Jn 3:20 If our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts and knows everything.
1Jn 3:21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence in the presence of God.
1Jn 3:22 Whatever we request we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus the Messiah, and to love one another as he commanded us.
1Jn 3:24 The person who keeps his commandments abides in God, and God abides in him. This is how we can be sure that he remains in us: he has given us his Spirit.


If you read further through 1 John we see in verse 23 what commandment is being discussed here, although I don't think the point is freedom to do whatever you want.

God gave us a way to Heaven by sending Jesus, and Jesus taught us how we should worship, love, and live. It is humanly impossible for us to keep all of the laws, otherwise we wouldn't have needed Jesus to pay for our sins.

 

[LST 1154]

1 John 3:4 "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness." What John means in this verse is sin at its most basic root is a disregard for the law of God, which is inherently a disregard for the law Maker, God Himself. So every time we sin we sin against God. So how many times do I sin in a day? A bunch, why just this morning I saw an attractive young lady at breakfast and my eyes wandered for just a second: SIN. This "new" law was one added by Jesus. In the OT you had to actually have sexual intercourse before you were guilty of adultery, but now in the NT all you need to do is to have an impure thought about a woman and you are guilty of adultery. So you see we are doomed. We MUST follow all 613 of God's laws found in the OT 100% of the time and unfortunately Jesus and His apostles added several hundred more so now we have at least 850 commandments that must be followed 100% of the time without ANY excuses.

Good luck with that. Give me Galatians and grace. You can keep the legalism and the law.

LST