Fundamental challenge

[eastcoast_bsc]

oh PS your chubby babies look cute

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Why do you reject the testimonies of those claiming to have been kidnapped by aliens while at the same time embracing the testimonies of people who claim to have changed sexual orientation?

Because Jesus changes people. Do you not believe that yourself, being a Catholic?

 

[InHisSpirit]

I found a verse last night I wanted to share in this thread,

"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh." Gal 5:16

I use this verse to point that after my conversion I came to the knowledge that my desires were that of the flesh. Its what I preferred and what I thought was attractive. When I started my personal relationship with Christ I was shedding many desires of the flesh, addictions, etc...Soon my desires changed from what I wanted to what God wanted. It was a slow hard transition and even today I fail just like everyone else does. However, when my desires shifted focus I knew God would send me a wonderful man which he did. He is a police officer and a Godly man. My dreams are a reflection of my "flesh" desire. They still reflect what deep down inside I feel, but sometimes I dream I am a super hero too but that doesn't make me one. I think we have a strong enemy who will use anything to cause self doubt and I believe my dreams are a way he attacks my relationship. the last thing Satan wants is someone like me sharing like this. Now, back to what I was saying. I had to come to the realization that once I accepted Christ my life no longer was about me or centered around my wants. It is to be centered around Him and His sacrifice on the cross. The pain He endured for me is such ...well I can't even describe it with words. Even though it can be a slow and almost painful experience I now know that I can live as a walking testimony to Christ. There is a verse in 1 Cor 9:12b " but we endure all things, so that we will cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ."

Jesus changes lives if we allow Him. It is not easy it goes against everything we have believed ourselves to be. Everything we have been told we are and the expectations we have made for ourselves and our lives may and probably will change when we become a new creation in Christ.

 

[InHisSpirit]

Oh, eeastcoast...thanks for compliment...I think I am very lucky to have such beautiful little boys...still not sure where they got that from though...LOL

 

[Uphill Battle]

now, I notice that now that there has been one testimony provided, there has been an incredible lack of repartee from the OP. I'm willing to give the benifit of the doubt, that they haven't read it yet.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

now, I notice that now that there has been one testimony provided, there has been an incredible lack of repartee from the OP. I'm willing to give the benifit of the doubt, that they haven't read it yet.

I have responded, if you look about er ah 1 post up from your snide "repartee" comment. But I digress. I just chose not to beat up on someone, who has made a choice. I have zero issue with anyone making an individual choice.

But I stand by what I said. She may be married, with children, but she is still primarily attracted to Woman.

I knew it was wrong. Every sex related dream I have ever and still have are about women

He knows about my past and doesn't care. He knows about my dreams

So I as a Man, Marry a Woman, but my erotic dreams are still about Men, and I am still attracted to men. Does that make me heterosexual ?

It may be fine for some, but for me, It would be too much of a burden.

 

[Brieuse]

I have responded, if you look about er ah 1 post up from your snide "repartee" comment. But I digress. I just chose not to beat up on someone, who has made a choice. I have zero issue with anyone making an individual choice.

But I stand by what I said. She may be married, with children, but she is still primarily attracted to Woman.





So I as a Man, Marry a Woman, but my erotic dreams are still about Men, and I am still attracted to men. Does that make me heterosexual ?

It may be fine for some, but for me, It would be too much of a burden.

Never mind the burden on the wife. Imagine being married to a man that cannot enjoy having sex with you.

 

[InHisSpirit]

I very much enjoy sex with my hubby and in my post in response to the OP I stated that I do believe my dreams are a spiritual attack. During my waking hours I DO NOT have any attraction to any woman. Again, just because you dream you are a super hero or president of the US doesn't make you either.

But I do thank the OP for not challenging my testimony. Politeness is a great thing.

 

[BigBadWlf]

best of luck to you. I'm fairly sure that people don't keep a logbook of how their Gayness or lack thereof rates on your slide rule.

Well actually it is just a standard of measurement to be used to say that one was a homosexual and one is now a heterosexual. “Ex-gays” are notorious for saying everything but that. the testimonies are laced with meaningless phrases bout lifestyle and struggles but no one actually says I was exclusively a homosexual and am now exclusively a heterosexual.

besides which, even if you get numerous testimonies, you will

We do not get numerous testimonies of people willing to claim that they were homosexual and are now heterosexual. In fact we don’t get any like that at all.

1) not convince you one Iota

and

And what reason is there to believe that people who cannot even plainly state that they were homosexual and are now heterosexual changed sexual orientations?

2) will likely be downplayed as "not genuinely Gay"

And if they were not homosexual in the first place, why should they be called “ex-gays”?

so the so called challenge is rather moot.

No the challenge is unanswered.

case in point.

We have an individual posting who does not claim to have been homosexual (just obsessed with clothing) and who admits she is not heterosexual.
Why would anyone consider this individual to have changed sexual orientations?

 

[BigBadWlf]

I am saying I have no desires for anyone other than my husband. That would be heterosexual.

No that would make you monogamous.

Your statement: “I still catch myself thinking thoughts or still having the dreams” is an indication that you are not heterosexual.

I grew up believing I was homosexual and had homosexual relationships.

You believed you were but that is not a statement of fact.

that changed when I because a Christian, it was difficult but I changed. The Holy Spirit convicted me and I changed. I have not had any homosexual relationships since I became a Christian. I felt the conviction, I prayed and struggled, I leaned on my fellow Christians, and now I am married and love my MAN!

That is all very nice but doesn’t mean you changed sexual orientation

 

[WarEagle]

I would like to cut to the chase, and challenge those that often repeat that there are many "Exgays" and that testimonies on "Exgay" websites, prove it so.

Well the challenge is to invite an individual, who was primarily Homosexual (lets , say at least an 8 on a continuim of 1-10. where a 1 is 100% Heterosexual and a 10, is 100% Homosexual) to at least a 2 on the same continuim.

So the challenge is to have an "Exgay" who has been miracuously transformed from gay to straight, come and give a testimony. The one restriction, is that they would have to have been Gay, not bisexual.

If being gay is so wrong, certainly there must be at least 1 willing to answer a few questions.

How are you defining "exgay" (sic)?

Do you mean someone who is no longer attracted to the same sex? Or do you mean someone who still struggles with same sex attraction, but submits his will to Christ and no longer engages in that sin?

 

[BigBadWlf]

Because Jesus changes people. Do you not believe that yourself, being a Catholic?

Ex-gay ministries claim hundreds of thousands of individuals have changed sexual orientations. That they have changed form homosexual to heterosexual. So where are they?

 

[BigBadWlf]

I have responded, if you look about er ah 1 post up from your snide "repartee" comment. But I digress. I just chose not to beat up on someone, who has made a choice. I have zero issue with anyone making an individual choice.

But I stand by what I said. She may be married, with children, but she is still primarily attracted to Woman.





So I as a Man, Marry a Woman, but my erotic dreams are still about Men, and I am still attracted to men. Does that make me heterosexual ?

It may be fine for some, but for me, It would be too much of a burden.

Does standing in the middle of a garage make you a car?

 

[BigBadWlf]

How are you defining "exgay" (sic)?

Do you mean someone who is no longer attracted to the same sex? Or do you mean someone who still struggles with same sex attraction, but submits his will to Christ and no longer engages in that sin?

The OP was remarkably clear on that

Someone who has changed sexual orientation

Specifically an individual who was an exclusive homosexual who is not an exclusive heterosexual

 

[WarEagle]

I'm sure he can speak for himself just fine without your help.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

How are you defining "exgay" (sic)?

Do you mean someone who is no longer attracted to the same sex? Or do you mean someone who still struggles with same sex attraction, but submits his will to Christ and no longer engages in that sin?

My definition of an "Exgay" world be someone who was exclusively Homosexual, who is now Heterosexual. To further define that, I would mean in thought and not just action. One who has experienced genuine change, not just repressing their feelings.

I have no issue with those that choose to remain celibate and chaste.

I mean even Exodus has changed their tactics a bit and now use slogans such as "it not about Heterosexuality, its about Holiness " That is fine with me. But it was when they were promising people that they would change. They still do this for the most part, but it is more subtle. This they do, because they know they cannot produce any statistics or studies that can withstand peer review.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Ex-gay ministries claim hundreds of thousands of individuals have changed sexual orientations. That they have changed form homosexual to heterosexual. So where are they?

Dunno, first I've heard of this, but I believe it can be done through his power. I don't see why you cannot accept that AT least.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I have responded, if you look about er ah 1 post up from your snide "repartee" comment. But I digress. I just chose not to beat up on someone, who has made a choice. I have zero issue with anyone making an individual choice.

But I stand by what I said. She may be married, with children, but she is still primarily attracted to Woman.





So I as a Man, Marry a Woman, but my erotic dreams are still about Men, and I am still attracted to men. Does that make me heterosexual ?

It may be fine for some, but for me, It would be too much of a burden.

snide? I think you're looking for offense when none was offered.

but I must note, just out of sheer amusement, that the argument that is commonly used (that it's not a choice, you are born gay) is not the same courtesy that you offer the testimony, it's a "choice."

 

[WarEagle]

Dunno, first I've heard of this, but I believe it can be done through his power. I don't see why you cannot accept that AT least.

I think it's funny that some people believe that the power of God is enough to help the drunk stop drinking, help the thief stop stealing, help the fornicator stop fornicating, but the homosexual can't be helped.

 

[minister50]

Jesus said: (Mark 12:24) And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? If ye know the Scriptures and know Christ Jesus by the Re Birth than you know He alone can deliver from all sin and unrighteousness. "The Power of God". The Lord's Word does not change and stands and sin is sin and no amount of trying to twist Scripture to condone a sinful lifestyle will change that fact.