Fun with the Flood math.

[ikester7579]

There are some instances in the bible were God strengthened someone to endure something. Like Saria, Abraham's wife. She was old when she had her first child. Abraham was worried that in her old age she would die in labor. God said that he would strengthen her so she could endure it. Now if the fish needed God to change something so they could endure and survive it can be done.

 

[Arikay]

The difference is that god said he would strengthen her.

However, god also said he would kill all the animals on the earth, but never said he would strengthen the fish. so by the literal interpretation of the bible, god didnt strengthen the fish.

Today at 01:08 AM ikester7579 said this in Post #21 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=691745#post691745)

There are some instances in the bible were God strengthened someone to endure something. Like Saria, Abraham's wife. She was old when she had her first child. Abraham was worried that in her old age she would die in labor. God said that he would strengthen her so she could endure it. Now if the fish needed God to change something so they could endure and survive it can be done.

 

[ikester7579]

"The Fountains of the Deep" Discovered! Proverbs 8:27?28
"When He prepared the heavens, I was there, when He drew a circle on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above, when He strengthened the fountains of the deep...."

The Bible mentions "the fountains of the deep" several times. During the Flood we are told that God opened the fountains of the deep, suggesting seismic activity. When God ended the flooding, we are told that God closed the fountains of the deep, suggesting that they continue to exist, albeit with less water than at creation. Now scientists say that they may have found an astonishing reservoir of water deep in the earth.

The water they believe they have found does not exist in huge underground oceans. The water is tied up in minerals, held there by the tremendous pressures and temperatures deep in the earth. Researchers have shown, for example, that a mineral called wadslyite, which exists only at temperatures above 1800°(F) as deep as 400 miles below the earth, can still hold water. Scientists have figured that if 60 percent of this layer is wadslyite, as seismic data indicate, it could contain enough water to fill 10 oceans. Researchers have also analyzed the amount of this water that is brought to the surface during volcanic eruptions and concluded from their findings that there could be enough water deep in the earth to fill 30 oceans! Because of the way the water is stored, scientists don't expect it to all be released at once.

There are many more wonders in the creation than we know about. That's why it is a mistake for anyone to dismiss any of the Bible's mention of any of these wonders, all of which testify to our Creator.

There's your 10x more water your looking for. 

 

[ikester7579]

Notice the term about trmendous pressure. When you apply pressure to water it raises the boiling point of it. This is why we have radiator caps on our cars with a pressure rating. The higher the pressure rating, the higher the boiling point. Because of over the years the spring on a radiator cap becomes weak because of heating up and cooling down. The pressure applied is much less in 24 months. Thus it should be replaced every two years. I repair cars, so I thought I'd put that little tidbit in there.

 

[Freodin]

And now if someone could calculate how hot the Flood must have been, with all this boiling, high pressured water coming from the ground...


Energy conservation, ever heard of it?

 

[ikester7579]

Hey, that most of been how the ice caps melted. Thanks for bringing that up. It answers a question.

 

[Arikay]

Very interesting info. Ive been looking up info about that mineral but havent found too much. From what I gather, there is one problem with taking water out of that mineral, the reaction would probably make things rather hot and would have probably boiled everyone alive. But I havent finished looking at how the mineral is composed, or other info about it.

Also, I did some basic math. If 20,000,000 cubic miles of water, was kept 1 mile bellow (on average) the earths surface, and it was removed, it would make a .101 mile change to the earths crust. This isnt enough to change the equations substantially, but it would give Noah, one huge ride.

 

[ikester7579]

Well lets see. The question about salt and fresh water fish surviving. The water that came from the ground was fresh water because it has been filtered by our earth's natural filtering system. There should have been enough of this fresh water to make the oceans brackesh which enables both salt and fresh water fish to survive.

 

[ikester7579]

I also found something real interesting about the formation of oil. But since this is your thread I will only post it if you want me to.

 

[Arikay]

So all the salt water fish died?

There really isnt a happy medium, many salt water and fresh water fish are very sensative to the salt content. A change as large as the flood would have killed them. Possibly even killed them all.

so, how did noah fit those blue whales and their tank of water on the boat? (im not sure if blue whales could have survived, but im thinking that they wouldnt because of a change in water salt content, change in amount of food, and quite a few other changes)

Today at 01:43 AM ikester7579 said this in Post #28 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=691786#post691786)

Well lets see. The question about salt and fresh water fish surviving. The water that came from the ground was fresh water because it has been filtered by our earth's natural filtering system. There should have been enough of this fresh water to make the oceans brackesh which enables both salt and fresh water fish to survive.

 

[Arikay]

Is it the info that says that the pressures of the flood formed oil after it killed the animals?

Today at 01:49 AM ikester7579 said this in Post #29 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=691794#post691794)

I also found something real interesting about the formation of oil. But since this is your thread I will only post it if you want me to.

 

[Arikay]

Here is an FAQ about the problems of The Noahs Ark story being literal truth:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

Ive been trying not to repeat too much of what is already there but add onto it with the math of the flood.

 

[ikester7579]

Today at 04:50 AM Arikay said this in Post #30

So all the salt water fish died?

There really isnt a happy medium, many salt water and fresh water fish are very sensative to the salt content. A change as large as the flood would have killed them. Possibly even killed them all.

so, how did noah fit those blue whales and their tank of water on the boat? (im not sure if blue whales could have survived, but im thinking that they wouldnt because of a change in water salt content, change in amount of food, and quite a few other changes)

I'm sure some did die. But I guess you'd better read a little more on brackesh water. We here in florida have a park that has a canal were salt and fresh water meet. You can catch just about anythig here. And there are no dead floating fish here either. They must know how far they can go into each side before it gets deadly.

 

[ikester7579]

Today at 04:55 AM Arikay said this in Post #31

Is it the info that says that the pressures of the flood formed oil after it killed the animals?

Nope, I p.m. you with more info on it. It's very interesting. If you like I just start a new thread tomarrow with this info about oil. This way we stay on track here. I'm going to bed. C ya.

 

[Arikay]

But we currently have fish that are very intollerant to change. So either Noah built them water tight environments for their specific need. Or there wasnt a global flood. Because they shouldnt be around.

The same goes for larger water animals.

Today at 01:58 AM ikester7579 said this in Post #33 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=691803#post691803)

I'm sure some did die. But I guess you'd better read a little more on brackesh water. We here in florida have a park that has a canal were salt and fresh water meet. You can catch just about anythig here. And there are no dead floating fish here either. They must know how far they can go into each side before it gets deadly.

 

[ikester7579]

I think I found Noah's wild ride.
A Giant Wave of Water
Genesis 7:19-20
"And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered."

What's the biggest wave you've ever seen on a lake or the ocean? Some scientists are now saying that there is evidence that in ancient times a wave over 1,000 feet tall swept over parts of the Earth creating some of its geological features.

While a 1,000 foot wave sounds big, and indeed it is, it's not unbelievable. The largest wave ever recorded in modern times was a 1,700 foot high wave which struck a remote area of Alaska. A landslide caused the wave which was magnified by the shape of the bay until a wall of water almost one-third of a mile high swept onto the opposing hills, stripping them of forests. Two people drowned, but miraculously fishermen aboard two boats were swept out to sea and lived to tell about the ride of a lifetime.

Some geologists have proposed that a similar wave, caused by an underwater landslide, swept across the Hawaiian Islands in the more distant past. As evidence, they point to blankets of gravel, sometimes 25 feet thick, as well as other debris from the ocean which is found scattered across the southern slopes of the Hawaiin islands.

According to the Bible, they may both be right. It's possible that these gravel beds and ocean bottom debris may represent both the violence of the great Flood and the higher sea levels at the end of the Flood which is recorded in Genesis.

 

[armageddonman]

What about the corals? Corals are extremely sensitive to changes in water temperature and salt content. How were the huge coral reefs formed? Coral reefs grow veeeeery slowly.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Wow this thread moved fast. 

I pointed out some fun with flood math on the 7,200 inches of rain a day thread that shows that significant global rain is impossible. If you want to have some more fun with flood math consider that there are estimated to be 30,000 trillion tons of salt in the deposits underlying lower Michigan and this is of course just a fraction of the world's salt deposits. Calculate how much water would have to evaporate to deposit 30,000 trillion tons of salt from seawater that started out at no more than 3.5% salt. Then calculate the heat required to evaporate this water quickly during a global flood since this salt is found in between layers that are supposed to be flood deposits. The only way I can see to do it is to boil it.  To deposit 30,000 trillion tons of salt you need to boil away about 7.7 x 10^20 grams of sea water.  This will take about 1.7 times 10^24 J of heat. When the boiling water recondenses from steam it will release this heat back into the air.  As I pointed out before the atmosphere has a mass of about 5 x 10^21 gram and 1 J heats 1 gram of air 1 degree C so just to get the salt under Michigan enough heat will be transfered to the air to heat the atmosphere by about 350 C and you still have a lot of other salt to deposit.

More fun with flood math comes from the heat in the water in the so-called fountains of the deep.  This sounds a lot like Walt Brown's hydroplate model.  There is of course no evidence that this great mass of underground water ever existed and no real explanation of where it went after the flood. The biggest problem is that it will be hot as someone has pointed out already.  Brown puts the water at about 10 miles underground where it will be at least 180 degree C due to the geothermal gradient and it will be further heated by friction as it comes out. According to my CRC handbook the heat content of water at 180 C is 762 J/g. Now suppose we have enough water to cover the earth to a depth of 2000 meters.  The surface area of the earth is 5 x 10^18 sq cm and we need 200,000 cm deep water so we have 1 x 10^24 cc or grams of water. This means that about 7.6 x 10^26 grams of heat will be released on the surface of the earth cooking the earth to death many times over. I figure that about a third of the water will end up being converted to steam and the final result will be an atmosphere of high pressure steam with a temperature well above 100 C.  Maybe the ark had some very good air conditioning units on board but I really doubt it.

All the creationist flood models that I have seen have trouble with the conservation of mass, that is the water comes and goes with no real source or destination and/or the conservation of energy, huge amounts of heat are produced that would have cooked the earth to death many times over with no explanation of why it did not do so.

I am also wondering how the ark could have survived that violent wave from the fountains of the deep that has been discussed here and how the wave manged to sweep over the land without jumbling the fossils of primative amphibians, permian therapsid reptiles, dinosaurs and large mammals all together.  This is a pretty amazing flood. It seems that it was both incredibly violent and very gentle at the same time and capable of amazing feats of fossil sorting and somehow absorbed vast quantities of heat without getting very hot.

Regards

Frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Gracchus]

Today at 02:07 AM ikester7579 said this in Post #34

Nope, I p.m. you with more info on it. It's very interesting. If you like I just start a new thread tomarrow with this info about oil. This way we stay on track here. I'm going to bed. C ya.

(Emphasis mine. G)

So why did you suddenly change the subject from "angular unconformities" to "Pleochromatic haloes?"

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/36392.html

 

 

 




 

 

[Arikay]

well, actually, the wild ride I was refering too was before any of the waters came. Unless the fountains of the deep released slowly (which probably wouldnt have happend, because once they were under enough pressure, they wouldnt be able to release any more water) noah and his ark would have had some huge earthquakes to deal with before they were lifted up by the water.

Today at 02:30 AM ikester7579 said this in Post #36 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=691834#post691834)

I think I found Noah's wild ride.
A Giant Wave of Water
Genesis 7:19-20
"And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered."

What's the biggest wave you've ever seen on a lake or the ocean? Some scientists are now saying that there is evidence that in ancient times a wave over 1,000 feet tall swept over parts of the Earth creating some of its geological features.

While a 1,000 foot wave sounds big, and indeed it is, it's not unbelievable. The largest wave ever recorded in modern times was a 1,700 foot high wave which struck a remote area of Alaska. A landslide caused the wave which was magnified by the shape of the bay until a wall of water almost one-third of a mile high swept onto the opposing hills, stripping them of forests. Two people drowned, but miraculously fishermen aboard two boats were swept out to sea and lived to tell about the ride of a lifetime.

Some geologists have proposed that a similar wave, caused by an underwater landslide, swept across the Hawaiian Islands in the more distant past. As evidence, they point to blankets of gravel, sometimes 25 feet thick, as well as other debris from the ocean which is found scattered across the southern slopes of the Hawaiin islands.

According to the Bible, they may both be right. It's possible that these gravel beds and ocean bottom debris may represent both the violence of the great Flood and the higher sea levels at the end of the Flood which is recorded in Genesis.