Fullness of the Gentiles

dfw69 · Nov 18, 2013

But Jesus gives hope... Everything that was hidden and not known will be known.... All things will be revealed... Every knee will bow and confess of the truth... Justice is given to everyone wronged ...we will know who was mystery Babylon... We will know all those that lied... And deceived .... No sin ever committed will be hidden to Christ and god

dfw69 · Nov 18, 2013

I believe I will get to meet each and every one of you here on this forum... One day I will see you all... No doubt... I will make sure of it... I will ask until I find you...... I want to know the people I've had the pleasure of sharing eschatology with...so see you all soon someday... peace

parousia70 · Nov 18, 2013

dfw69 said:
Drugs available poverty high cost of living some prostitute to survive ...the world is crying .. Children stolen lost in human trafficking ... Sons lost to drugs... Abortions ..rape murders instability ...death .. Famines

Can any of these prevent the believer from salvation?

It's a horrible world we live in

God SO LOVED the World He sent His only begotten Son....

We are to love what God Loves.

dfw69 · Nov 18, 2013

parousia70 said:
Can any of these prevent the believer from salvation?

I don't know ... All situations are different .. Only god can judge

God SO LOVED the World He sent His only begotten Son....

We are to love what God Loves.

Jesus said love not the world ... He testified that the world was in sin and needed a savior... So we love the world in calling people to receive Jesus teachings for salvation and turn from the world evil ways

Whosever believes in him will not perish...but if you don't believe in him ...will they perish?....that's for god to judge

parousia70 · Nov 18, 2013

dfw69 said:
Jesus said love not the world ...

Where?

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (John 3:16-17)

We are to Love what God Loves.

Can any of these prevent the believer from salvation?
I don't know ... All situations are different .. Only god can judge..

....Whosever believes in him will not perish..

Sounds like you DO know.
Whoever Believes in Him shall not perish.
There is NOTHING that can prevent THE BELIEVER from Salvation.

Satan is POWERLESS to prevent THE BELIEVER from salvation.
THE BELIEVER currently shares in Christ's PRESENT VICTORY over Satan.

dfw69 · Nov 18, 2013

parousia70 said:
Where?

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (John 3:16-17)

We are to Love what God Loves.

Sounds like you DO know.
Whoever Believes in Him shall not perish.
There is NOTHING that can prevent THE BELIEVER from Salvation.

Satan is POWERLESS to prevent THE BELIEVER from salvation.
THE BELIEVER currently shares in Christ's PRESENT VICTORY over Satan.

Well that's a good thing

1jn2:15
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.

ebedmelech · Nov 18, 2013

Bible2 said:
Ephesians 1:22's original Greek can be read as meaning that all things will have been put under Christ's feet by the time of the age to come (i.e. the new earth) in Ephesians 1:21c. For Ephesians 1:22a, like 1 Corinthians 15:27a, is simply a quotation from Psalms 8:6b, which was written in the past tense some thousand years before Christ's first coming. None of the verses mean that God the Father has already (today) put all things under Christ's feet physically, as he will do over the future time from Revelation 19:11 to Revelation 20:15. For "now we see not yet all things put under him" (Hebrews 2:8c), and Paul elsewhere refers to the future time "when all things shall be subdued unto him" (1 Corinthians 15:28), in the sense of physically subdued.

Not at all Bible2. What it means is it is now...and will be. The application is now and future. This idea you have denies what is and what will be. Just as we see God choose to exercise His authority in the Old Testament when he chose to...so it is with Christ right now. However, as Jesus said "a time is coming when ALL will be judged! So ALL THINGS are under His feet right now.

Bible2 said:
Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). In the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). That's why at his 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11), to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

Nope! When Jesus died, as Ephesians says HE MADE BOTH GROUPS (Jews and Gentiles), into ONE new man. Why you persist in making two groups is denial of what scripture teaches. ALL who comes to Christ are Abraham's seed and heirs according to "the promise", which is Christ! It makes NO DIFFERENCE. God help you to see that.

Bible2 said:
After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which, Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

We've been there before Bible2. The millennium is NOW (Matthew 28:18)...Christ has ALL POWER right now. Christ is on the THRONE RIGHT NOW (read Peter's sermon in Acts 2 until you believe it). The time is coming when Christ returns and all (inmcluding those who are unbelieving, will know that. Too many passages tell you Christ reigns right now...but you have submitted to someone's theology instead of the written word!

coraline · Nov 18, 2013

dfw69 said:
Well that's a good thing

1jn2:15
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.

The "world" in that verse is what the world, which we are "not of" in Christ, represents. (ie:sin)

When we read more of the Jn 2 passage, we can understand our standing in Christ (Who came to defeat the works of the devil)

12 I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His names sake.
13 I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.

Do Not Love the World

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the worldthe lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of lifeis not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

shturt678 · Nov 18, 2013

So God "loved", "liked" the sinful cesspool, and stinking world....hmmmm, ie, I don't think so?

So God "loved," "agaped" the world sounds a little better. How could God embrace, and kiss the world, ie, He would have to turn from it in revulsion wouldn't he? I can't even embrace an enemy that is trying to kill me, ie, maybe I shouldn't try, and just run away? Sorry, just thinking out loud again.

I have a gut feeling Randy holds the solution thus my end point:

Rom.11:25 where my old friend Mr. Luther fluctuated and my other old friends, ie, Sanday and Headlam asserted the whole Jeiwish nationn shall be saved. The Jews will not disappear as one may think. Other nations have disappeared; the ten tribes of the Jews themselves have left no trace, ie, forget about the man made nation Israel in 1948 or so. Not so the two tribes that constituted Judaism in Paul's time. Only accepting Jesus as their Savior will they endure until the last Gentile is brought into the Kingdom, and the Lord Returns for the great judgment. Hey, enough thinking out loud.

Just ol' old Jack's view

coraline · Nov 18, 2013

shturt678 said:
So God "loved", "liked" the sinful cesspool, and stinking world....hmmmm, ie, I don't think so?

So God "loved," "agaped" the world sounds a little better. How could God embrace, and kiss the world, ie, He would have to turn from it in revulsion wouldn't he? I can't even embrace an enemy that is trying to kill me, ie, maybe I shouldn't try, and just run away? Sorry, just thinking out loud again.

I have a gut feeling Randy holds the solution thus my end point:

Rom.11:25 where my old friend Mr. Luther fluctuated and my other old friends, ie, Sanday and Headlam asserted the whole Jeiwish nationn shall be saved. The Jews will not disappear as one may think. Other nations have disappeared; the ten tribes of the Jews themselves have left no trace, ie, forget about the man made nation Israel in 1948 or so. Not so the two tribes that constituted Judaism in Paul's time. Only accepting Jesus as their Savior will they endure until the last Gentile is brought into the Kingdom, and the Lord Returns for the great judgment. Hey, enough thinking out loud.

Just ol' old Jack's view

The salvation call still goes out in the New Jerusalem, which is the church universal- the kingdom of God, & the mother of us all.

Rev22:
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let him who hears say, Come! And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

parousia70 · Nov 18, 2013

Correct.
The Gospel, which sole purpose for existence is to call human sinners to salvation in Christ Jesus, is EVERLASTING.

It has NO EXPIRATION DATE.

dfw69 · Nov 18, 2013

parousia70 said:
Correct.
The Gospel, which sole purpose for existence is to call human sinners to salvation in Christ Jesus, is EVERLASTING.

It has NO EXPIRATION DATE.

That is true... But it still does not change the fact that wrath will be poured upon the earth if the earth falls away from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils

Bar Melek · Nov 18, 2013

Please go to my Facebook page (search Facebook Bryan Rebenstorf). Look in my notes section and find the article on Jacob's Prophecy in Genesis Chapter 48. Then read the Sea Voyages of the Ancient Israelites and all the Lost Tribes of Israel notes, including the one on the Origins of (the words) Good and Evil in English. See what you think. Let me know if you have any questions after reading them. Thank you.

Bar Melek · Nov 18, 2013

Bryan Andrew Rebenstorf.

Did you know that the word "evil" means "fool" in Hebrew? Interesting, don't you think? Go to my Facebook page, and you'll see. I can't access it right now myself (I think my IP address is being blocked), but I don't think they've deleted my account.

coraline · Nov 18, 2013

dfw69 said:
That is true... But it still does not change the fact that wrath will be poured upon the earth if the earth falls away from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils

"If the earth falls away?" Who is the "earth?"

John 3:17:
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

dfw69 · Nov 18, 2013

coraline said:
"If the earth falls away?" Who is the "earth?"

John 3:17:
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

The world will fall away from the faith when the false messiah comes....

Gods wrath will be poured upon that era

For now we are called to come to Christ and believe the gospel .. If god had not send him we would all be lost in sin..

Yet there are those who hates what he stands for... Christ has enemies... And his enemies of the world seek to deceive us ... To destroy us... To destroy true Christianity by any means possible...

God must stop this wickedness or Christianity will die off forever...

Bar Melek · Nov 18, 2013

The early Christians turned their world upside down, but the today the world seems to be growing more and more Satan side-up by the day.

Bar Melek · Nov 18, 2013

In a time when anything goes, everything will go to hell in time.

dfw69 · Nov 18, 2013

Bar Melek said:
In a time when anything goes, everything will go to hell in time.

Yet true Christianity will prevail .. For the gates of hell shall not prevail against Christ church... The New Testament is here to stay ... Though his enemies seek to destroy the New Testament ...in the end they will fail

Douggg · Nov 18, 2013

parousia70 said:
The term "Fullness of the Gentiles" is oft equated with the notion of quantity, amount, or number count of Gentile believers, but does scripture support such a notion?

By comparing scripture with scripture we clearly see that "fullness" does not equate with "full number", but rather the fullness of Gods grace:

John 1:16
And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

(This is especially instructive for us in that "fullness" is considered here to the the opposite of "fall", and in no way can be construed as a numeric value.)

Romans 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.

The list goes on........

The notion of fullness in the NT carries the idea of "totality of Gods blessings and grace", and not a certain number of people.

Gentile believers are not waiting to become "full partakers" of the Grace of God, rather The Gentiles are already FULL PARTAKERS of the grace of God.

The "Fulness of the gentiles" came in 2000 years ago.

I think the fullness of the gentiles phrase used by Paul in Romans...

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

What is being said by Paul is that Israel has been blinded to the gospel, and will continue - until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And Paul had been sent by Jesus to preached the gospel to the Gentiles.

Going back to Matthew 24, the gospel would be preached to all nations (the gentiles) - then the end would come.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So putting everything together, Israel will be saved, their blindness removed, in the end times after the gospel has been preached to all nations. Which is our times.

Doug

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