Frustration with Evolution and Creation Debates

SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle · Aug 8, 2007

I have another question. YEC's and TE's and OEC's all differ about how long the days were, but there was one particular day that is not questioned that much, even rarely. It is the Sabbath Day, day number seven according to Genesis. I have never seen this been debated before. When God rested after he created the world in six literal days according to YEC's or long ages of days according to TE's and OEC's, how long did God rest. One 24hr day or 1,000+ yrs. Also God is a spirit. How long would it take God to rest and how long could the Sabbath day have lasted?

SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle · Aug 8, 2007

Also how do I put quotes on the bottom of my posts like some other people under my CFLink?

Rudolph Hucker · Aug 8, 2007

SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle said:
Also how do I put quotes on the bottom of my posts like some other people under my CFLink?

Control panel, edit signature ...

archaeologist · Aug 8, 2007

how long did God rest. One 24hr day or 1,000+ yrs. Also God is a spirit. How long would it take God to rest and how long could the Sabbath day have lasted

we don't know and it is not germane to the issue nor to salvation or history and so on. it is one of those thngs that God omits because it is not important.

as an example: how did noah and his sons gather the animals? God doesn't tell us as it is not germane to the point of the event. the point is the punishing of sin and slavation of the righteous not how the animals got on the ark.

Scripture doesn't NEED to deal with evolution

when i said, yes it does, it simply meant that the answer would be too long to post at the time. suffice it to say if the Bible doesn't address evolution and evolution actually existed, then the Bible would be misrepresenting what God did and God would have sinned and our salvation is in jeopardy as He would not be God any more.

gluadys · Aug 9, 2007

SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle said:
I have another question. YEC's and TE's and OEC's all differ about how long the days were, but there was one particular day that is not questioned that much, even rarely. It is the Sabbath Day, day number seven according to Genesis. I have never seen this been debated before. When God rested after he created the world in six literal days according to YEC's or long ages of days according to TE's and OEC's, how long did God rest. One 24hr day or 1,000+ yrs. Also God is a spirit. How long would it take God to rest and how long could the Sabbath day have lasted?

Actually, this is a question that has long been debated since well before there were any TEs, YECs or OECs.

Even before Jesus was born, the rabbis discussed how long the Sabbath day was.

If you look at all the other days, each one closes with the refrain, "There was an evening and a morning, etc." But when you look at the Sabbath day, this refrain does not occur.

So the question the rabbis asked was "Does this mean the Sabbath day never ended?"

Some said no and some said yes. It was a common belief that the creation Sabbath had never ended and we are still living in the Sabbath. Those who held to this belief did not say the Sabbath is 24 hours or 1,000 years. They estimated (from the genealogies) that the Sabbath was close to 6,000 years, and still counting. Some also believed that the creation Sabbath would end when the Messiah came, so the creation Sabbath=all of history past, present and future.

Also even back then, based on Psalm 90, many people considered that all the other creation days could have been at least 1,000 years, since 1,000 years and a day are the same in God's sight.

Non-literal interpretations of scripture are very old. They didn't just pop up like mushrooms when the theory of evolution was proposed. The letter to the Hebrews has some interesting things to say about the Sabbath and it doesn't take a very literal approach. It is typical of ancient non-literal interpretations.

gluadys · Aug 9, 2007

archaeologist said:
when i said, yes it does, it simply meant that the answer would be too long to post at the time. suffice it to say if the Bible doesn't address evolution and evolution actually existed, then the Bible would be misrepresenting what God did and God would have sinned and our salvation is in jeopardy as He would not be God any more.

I disagree. I think your analogy of Noah and the animals applies to evolution too. Evolution is a theory about how God created. It is no more germane to the point than how Noah got the animals onto the ark.

The story of Noah deals with what is germane to the topic: God's punishment of sin and his salvation of the righteous. It doesn't mention a trivial detail, the mechanics of how the animals got onto the ark.

The creation story similarly deals with what is germane to the topic: God created, God created all things, only God created--no one else. It doesn't mention trivial details about exactly how God created--like evolution.

That God created and that only God created and that God created all things are important to our salvation. How God created is not.

Assyrian · Aug 9, 2007

archaeologist said:
we don't know and it is not germane to the issue nor to salvation or history and so on. it is one of those thngs that God omits because it is not important.

That is an amazing disconnect there archie. The bible describes creation happening over a seven day week. In six day of the week God creates the earth and heaven and on the seventh he rests and is refreshed. You claim people are 'not following God' and 'not believing his word' if they don't take the first six day as literal 24 hour days, but how long the seventh day is, you claim unknown and unimportant. It is all the same week. If the six days are 24 hour days then the last day of the week is 24 hours too. If the seventh day is an aeon long or figurative then the six days can be figurative too. If it is not a sin to understand the seventh day a figurative it is certainly not a sin to interpret the six days that way.

Assyrian · Aug 9, 2007

SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle said:
I have another question. YEC's and TE's and OEC's all differ about how long the days were, but there was one particular day that is not questioned that much, even rarely. It is the Sabbath Day, day number seven according to Genesis. I have never seen this been debated before. When God rested after he created the world in six literal days according to YEC's or long ages of days according to TE's and OEC's, how long did God rest. One 24hr day or 1,000+ yrs. Also God is a spirit. How long would it take God to rest and how long could the Sabbath day have lasted?

Read Hebrews 3&4. The writer actually describes God's Seventh day rest as an ongoing reality we can still enter into. Paul says something very similar. Instead of Sabbath observance being a commemoration of the creation, it is really a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ Col 2:7.

Jesus did not take the OT passages describing the God's Sabbath rest literally either. In a discussion about the Sabbath tells us God never actually stopped working John 5:17 My Father is working until now, and I am working. He also contradicted the literal explanation of the Sabbath in Exodus, that God declared the seventh day holy when he rested on it and people had to observe the sabbath because of that. Instead we are told Mark 2:27 The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

archaeologist · Aug 9, 2007

If the six days are 24 hour days then the last day of the week is 24 hours too. If the seventh day is an aeon long or figurative then the six days can be figurative too.

do you ever get tired of mis-representing people? i wasn't talking about the length of days and my post is quite clear about that.

Jesus did not take the OT passages describing the God's Sabbath rest literally either

The writer actually describes God's Seventh day rest as an ongoing reality we can still enter into

He also contradicted the literal explanation of the Sabbath in Exodus

all of these statements lack the understanding needed to hear what is being said in them and are being manipulated to say one thing when they say something else..

I disagree. I think your analogy of Noah and the animals applies to evolution too. Evolution is a theory about how God created. It is no more germane to the point than how Noah got the animals onto the ark.

always trying to find a way to slip evolution past the rules and escape the fact that it isn't of God and does not exist.

evolution is a secular construct meant as an alternative to God's creative act. IF God had used evolution, the Bible would have to be re-written and evolution would have to be mentioned so we know what God and how.

to say one thing and not the other makes God a sinner and removes Him from being God. you still have not produced one scripture verse which states God used evolution--why is that?

because evolution is not of God and was not used by Him.

How God created is not.

yes it is. this is a statement looking for an open door to slide evolution in where it does not belong. it matters because the truth matters and God told us, He spoke and it was...no evolution. God said creation was complete after 6 24 hour days--no evolution. it matters.

gluadys · Aug 9, 2007

archaeologist said:
always trying to find a way to slip evolution past the rules and escape the fact that it isn't of God and does not exist.

"Slip evolution past the rules", eh? Now if that doesn't sound like a Pharisee.

IMO these rules exist nowhere but in your head. They are your rules, not God's rules. And I am very willing to slip things past rules that you made up and choose in your arrogance to call God's rules.

1. Show me what these rules are.
2. Provide evidence that they are really God's rules and not your rules.

Then we may find some common ground.

I think you will have most difficulty with the second condition.

Assyrian · Aug 9, 2007

archaeologist said:
do you ever get tired of mis-representing people? i wasn't talking about the length of days and my post is quite clear about that.

SuperSaint: how long did God rest. One 24hr day or 1,000+ yrs. Also God is a spirit. How long would it take God to rest and how long could the Sabbath day have lasted?

archie: we don't know and it is not germane to the issue nor to salvation or history and so on. it is one of those thngs that God omits because it is not important.

You weren't talking to SuperSaint about the length of the Seventh day..?

all of these statements lack the understanding needed to hear what is being said in them and are being manipulated to say one thing when they say something else..

How's that for a knee jerk response devoid of all content apart from claiming I lack understanding and manipulate the texts.

archaeologist · Aug 9, 2007

You weren't talking to SuperSaint about the length of the Seventh day

nope, i never addressed that part of his question, it was an obvious answer.

how long did God rest

this was the only item i addressed.

Jase · Aug 9, 2007

archaeologist said:
always trying to find a way to slip evolution past the rules and escape the fact that it isn't of God and does not exist.

evolution is a secular construct meant as an alternative to God's creative act. IF God had used evolution, the Bible would have to be re-written and evolution would have to be mentioned so we know what God and how.

to say one thing and not the other makes God a sinner and removes Him from being God. you still have not produced one scripture verse which states God used evolution--why is that?

because evolution is not of God and was not used by Him.

Archi, evolution is more well supported than any other theory there is. That includes gravity, atoms, germs, and plate tectonics. You can live in your world of cognitive dissonance all you want, but all you are doing is making Christianity look like a hiding place for the ignorant and arrogant.

Evolution has been observed. There is no question that it occurs anymore then there is a question as to whether dropping a ball will result in it hitting the ground.

Evolution is not mentioned in Genesis just like every other complex scientific theory isn't mentioned in Genesis. Why would Genesis tell people from thousands of years ago, concepts that have only gained understanding in the last 150 years? Genesis doesn't say the Earth has plate tectonics or atoms either. Nor does it say the Earth revolves around the Sun ( in fact it implies the opposite). So if God was content to leave every other modern scientific finding out of the Bible, why would he make an exception with evolution?

And your last statement is very dangerous as a supposed supporter of Christianity. You claim evolution is not of God and was not used by him. If you use that line of reasoning around unbelievers they will just conclude that since we know evolution occurs, and we don't know God exists, your argument must mean that God most certainly doesn't exist since life wasn't created by him. Is that really the goal you were striving for? To turn more people away from God because of your arrogance in believing you absolutely have to be right?

Assyrian · Aug 9, 2007

archaeologist said:
nope, i never addressed that part of his question, it was an obvious answer.

how long did God rest

Click to expand...

this was the only item i addressed.

Yet you quoted this much before you replied:

SuperSaint: how long did God rest. One 24hr day or 1,000+ yrs. Also God is a spirit. How long would it take God to rest and how long could the Sabbath day have lasted?

Even her how long did God rest was how long did God rest. One 24hr day or 1,000+ yrs. She was asking if God's rest on the seventh day was a single day's rest or if the day's rest really mean 1000 years or more. Your answer to whether the Seventh day rest was a day or a thousand years was:we don't know and it is not germane to the issue nor to salvation or history and so on

archaeologist · Aug 9, 2007

evolution is more well supported than any other theory there is.

except it is not supported by the only document that matters---the Bible. the Bible says different so it is your choice whom to believe--the world or God?

Evolution has been observed

i am sorry but it hasn't. it has been credited but never observed, for the changes you think took place you have no proof evolution was responsible.

Why would Genesis tell people from thousands of years ago, concepts that have only gained understanding in the last 150 years?

this is another reason why evolution is false. why would God allow one story to be told for thousands of years, placed in His infallible book so all civilizations would have the story then suddenly change direction and suddenly have the 'truth' discovered near the end of the world?

not only would that not be fair or just, but that would eliminate God as God. He would have sinned and His whole book can be discounted and ignored.

there is more here than you know or want to consider. so ask yourself, since God has all the power, why would he wait till 150 years ago to expose the truth? why not from the beginning so all people would know it? why would He use unbelievers to counter and contradict His own book?

think about it.

Tinker Grey · Aug 9, 2007

Why would he wait till 350 years ago to introduce the concept of gravity?

Think about it.

Why would he wait until 400 years ago to introduce (to the west) the concept of heliocentrism?

Think about it.

Why would he wait until 100 years ago to introduce germ theory? Could have saved a lot of lives with that one!

Think about it.

Why would he wait until 60 years ago to introduce penicillin? (Side note: My dad was studying to be a pharmacist when this breakthrough was made so that it could be used as a medicine -- early 40s.)

Think about it.

archaeologist · Aug 9, 2007

Why would he wait till 350 years ago to introduce the concept of gravity?

but according to some here newton is wrong, so which is it? though i doubt the concept of gravity was new and waited till newton to be 'discovered'

Why would he wait until 400 years ago to introduce (to the west) the concept of heliocentrism?

who says He waited for that? have you read all the ancient documents? we know the Babylonians had the pythagrium (sp) theory long before its greek 'discoverer'. how much did the ancients really know?

more than you give them credit.

Why would he wait until 100 years ago to introduce germ theory? Could have saved a lot of lives with that one!

since there were doctors back then and some very excellent dentists it is obvious that gems were talked about. we also know that the ancient egyptians practiced plastic surgery, and were quite good at it.

Why would he wait until 60 years ago to introduce penicillin?

the ancients had their own medicine which did the trick as well, how do you know they didn't have it in some form?

please post links to support your claims.

Rudolph Hucker · Aug 9, 2007

archaeologist said:
but according to some here newton is wrong, so which is it? though i doubt the concept of gravity was new and waited till newton to be 'discovered'

who says He waited for that? have you read all the ancient documents? we know the Babylonians had the pythagrium (sp) theory long before its greek 'discoverer'. how much did the ancients really know?

more than you give them credit.

since there were doctors back then and some very excellent dentists it is obvious that gems were talked about. we also know that the ancient egyptians practiced plastic surgery, and were quite good at it.

the ancients had their own medicine which did the trick as well, how do you know they didn't have it in some form?

please post links to support your claims.

Ad absurdio.

Frustration with Evolution and Creation Debates

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