Fruitful Vine Ministries

[parsley]

Generally the site looks fine, except for a clear statement of apostolic governance, which I see as a problem. Usually that means the administrative staff has decided not to fuss with parishioners, and will handle all spirit-led input themselves. This is not the way to raise up disciples in the faith. It shows a return to Catholic or traditional Protestant denominational structure, with even more dominance.

In a denominational church, the pastor answers to the elders and congregation, as well as the denominational admin. In the New Testament, the people all bring something to share in the service. In the OT, families of priests took care of the temple duties. Here, the pastors appear to be owners with no accountability.

The intent of the five-fold verse was to broaden involvement, not narrow (IMO). Maybe in practice the church does operate with more interactivity.

What strikes me about their books -- they have already been written many times over, by authors since the 1960's or 70's. Maybe the authors have done their own research, but maybe not.

Also the price was mentioned-- $60AUD is the equivalent of $52.56 USD, which is three to five times what the books should cost. Even if printing on demand, the books can be offered for around ten plus shipping. Then again, if it's a small congregation, they might need to raise funds that way. It would be good to know the profit split between author and ministry.

And they charge for their webcast sermon downloads. :scowl:
Even if they are paying a technically-savvy person full time to record and upload the sermons, they should not need to charge money for people to hear the sermons.

A few minutes before reading the thread, I read Charisma's article on the nuances in Greek on women in leadership-- that it was allowed but not with a domineering premise.

Does 1 Timothy 2:12 Really Say Women Can't Teach in Church?

My opponent engaged a high ranking Barrister who has a Masters degree in Law!

Off topic... I don't think there are law degrees below the Master's level. Most attorneys have the higher Doctorate of Jurisprudence.

Glad to hear your case went well, especially after a tough barrister -- and especially that your children are back in your life! Thank you for contributing your input and enthusiasm over your church.

 

[janfreed7]

Whoops!
You know what I mean!!!

 

[parsley]

Heh. I think they pointed it out, because that's what cult followers say. That doesn't mean we think you are in a danger zone -- just keeping everyone on their toes.

Also, I didn't intend to pick apart your church -- was just responding to the OP's question about it, so scanned through the site for things that might strike people uncomfortably.

The media prices were high, but it's any author's prerogative to set prices, and any consumer's choice to buy or not. Textbooks and technical research can run much higher than this. Still, many members would not be able to afford the purchases and could feel left out of the loop. The problem would come if members were expected to buy them, such as preparatory reading before a class.

I've been in churches that started running training classes, which could help keep everyone on the same page -- but then they started requiring registration, tracking of attendance, fees for certain courses, and guards to keep out people who hadn't pre-registered. Too much.

Freely we have received; now freely give what we have gained from our training. The Matthew 10:8 verse wasn't about money, but ministry (healing, deliverance). This also includes the proprietary clinging to what we teach -- do we share it with everyone, or lay claim to it for ourselves? Fear of lack drives us to pull things tighter towards ourselves. Love sends it outward without fear of losing it.

 

[janfreed7]

Thanks Parsley
High ranking Barrister says on his web site......signed Victorian Bar Roll 16/5/20213.
He is an instructor at Leo Cussens Centre for Law.
In addition to his Law degree Kierin also has a Mathmatics degree & a Masters of Law!

I Just am hungry for the Lord, & He was so Merciful to me during this 18 mth ordeal.
I learnt so much!

I give God ALL them Glory.

 

[janfreed7]

Thanks Parsley
High ranking Barrister says on his web site......signed Victorian Bar Roll 16/5/20213.
He is an instructor at Leo Cussens Centre for Law.
In addition to his Law degree Kierin also has a Mathmatics degree & a Masters of Law!

I Just am hungry for the Lord, & He was so Merciful to me during this 18 mth ordeal.
I learnt so much!

I give God ALL them Glory.

 

[chrisjohnstonone]

Hi everyone. I am interested in Fruitful Vine and Yvonne Kitchen. I am a writer/journalist in Melbourne. I can be contacted on (03) 86672233

Thank you very much.

 

[janfreed7]

Hi
Fruitful vine ministries international have their Sunday service at 10am.
If you want to have a deeper relevant relationship with the Lord, then its the place to be!
The Lord drew me to this place a few years ago, Awesome deliverance ministry.
Highly highly recommend you visit!

500 kellets Rd, Lysterfield

 

[Ephraimite]

Hello, since the Father pulled me out of one type of Babylon, which is FV, He has been speaking to me through the word about healing and deliverance ministries in general.

Remember we are told to come out of Babylon lest we receive of her plagues and diseases. That'll mean spiritual disease.

There is much deception around, false teachers, prophets etc. BUT we are told that will happen in the end times. That spiritual disease ensnares us and will ultimately take us to eternal death unless we open our eyes to truth.

The only way we can learn who is false is by going to the word and seeking the Father for ourselves. He wants to show us truth. His yoke is easy and His burden is light. We don't need to spend thousands on some man or women's faulty, fleshy teaching.

It was the original sin of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden that set our feet on the path to seek truth elsewhere, away from Abba Father. The serpent said to Eve: 'Has God indeed said....?' He sowed doubt in her mind as to whether the Father is right. That is where the rot set in.

The Israelites in turn sent Moses to the Mountain to hear the Father for them because they were afraid of His awesome power. The rest is history..the pattern has continued and churches, ministries and apostles, prophets etc make millions because the sheep choose not to learn from those lessons.

Knowing the word and having it deep in our spirit enables us to judge lies and will divide or separate them from the truth. We are told that the Holy Spirit is our teacher after all, not man or women. We have to read all the word, it is essential.

Deborah was a judge. Deborah in Hebrew is devarim which means words. The biblical person Deborah was actually walking out a deep truth which we need to understand now before it is too late.

We see that throughout the word from beginning to end, biblical characters walked out deep truths which the Father is revealing now to those who have ears and eyes to listen and see. They were His image on earth.

These false apostle, prophets and teachers are a sign of the end. There are many examples of them in the word too for us to learn from. The witch of Endor is one. Saul went to her because he could no longer hear from the Father as he had not followed His will. He couldn't discern or judge what was right and wrong. We too have a fleshy desire to go to man or women because we haven't learned yet to judge and go to the Father.

You can read about the signs of the end in Matthew 24, along with the other physical signs which we are currently experiencing.

There are so many false teachers who are into healing and deliverance : FV and Yvonne Kitchen, Benny Hinn, Bill Johnson, the Arnotts, Todd Bentley, C Peter Wagner etc etc.

If you go to the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, you'll see Yeshua only healed on the Sabbath. It is only he who can and will deliver us from evil and bring peace as he is the Lord of the Sabbath and our groom.

The healing on the Sabbath is a prophetic picture of the lost sheep or bride being healed in the soon to be millennial reign or seventh day. We are currently nearing the end of the sixth day or millennium, that is why we are seeing all these signs.

Remember the age of man is 120 years ( Genesis 6 v 3), a year in that verse is a biblical jubilee or 50 yrs. which is 120 x 50 or 6000 years. That is why man was made on the sixth day.

The word is quite clear, Abba Father alone fights the battles for us, He is our stronghold, not man or women. If we insist on going to these ministries we are idolaters and we will find as such that we will be left outside the gates of the kingdom and find no peace in the seventh millennium or Sabbath where the true healing takes place.

I pray this speaks to someone. And Jan you may have experienced a 'miracle' at FV, I did too but that is a strong sign of a false prophet, see Deuteronomy 13. If you connect that 'miracle' to the fact that YK does not keep the commands you'll see the evidence is very clear. She doesn't keep the commands nor do the other deceivers as they all put themselves before Abba Father as a god.. You are being tested, as I was and still am, by the Father. He allows it to happen to see whether you trust Him or go to a fleshy person.

Shalom

 

[Ephraimite]

Hello
My attention has been drawn to something I wrote which was incorrect. I said that FV was involved in money laundering. I was wrong.

They were not investigated for laundering money. A person in the church had donated a large sum of money in the form of a cheque after committing fraud to obtain it. They never cashed the cheque though and were able to hand it straight over to the police once the member was arrested. While the member served 12 months for fraud, FV was not implicated in the crime.

I am sorry that I made an incorrect statement..

 

[janfreed7]

Hi, more correction for you!
The person you mentioned for fraud was Innocent!
They did only eight months in jail & released, praise to Almighty God!
&&& never members, just a person who went to church there looking for help!
I'm sure they found it at Fruitful Vine. I did!
Know the truth....it sets you free!
Wow!

 

[Simpleman25]

Innocent people spend 8 months in jail?

You expect us to believe that?

 

[janfreed7]

Justice won against injustice!

 

[Simpleman25]

Not really. He got less time than he deserved.

 

[janfreed7]

I call it as it is!
Mercy .....Grace
Jesus Jesus Jesus

 

[bushinoki]

I checked the website for Fruitful Vine, and there was a giant red flag, even on the main home page. Flat out, the most prominent feature is to get you to buy stuff. Anytime I see a "ministry" pushing merchandise so much, I have found there are deeper underlying theological issues.

Here are the websites for two churches that I know to be theologically sound:

Little Country Church | "A place where restoration through Christ can be found."

Shoreline Community Church in Monterey, CA - Our mission is to help as many people as possible become totally committed to Jesus Christ!

Note how for both churches, the primary focus is on what they're teaching and what ministries are available for various groups. There is an option for giving on both pages, but the primary focus is on how to lead people to Jesus and develop their relationship with Him. In fact, I didn't type in the websites as they appear, I merely typed in the URLs for each. I just happened to preview my post, because it is so long, and saw how they appear.

The Fruitful Vine website, however, came across like a cheesy infomercial. Any time someone puts getting you to buy stuff at the forefront of their ministry, it's a signal that money is their god, not the Savior. I would warn anyone I knew was getting involved with this "ministry" to stay away, and these are exactly the reasons I would point out.

 

[Simpleman25]

I call it as it is!
Mercy .....Grace
Jesus Jesus Jesus

You call it as you want to see it. Evidenced by your blindness to the fact that this nothing but the devils handiwork.

 

[janfreed7]

Oh dear!

Didn't mean to upset u!!
U tell a tree by its fruit!
I'm part of the yummy yummy fruit at F.V.M.I Lysterfield Melbourne

 

[Simpleman25]

The only thing that upsets me is that you're being misled.

 

[janfreed7]

We live in perilous times.
Must test/try all spirits.

 

[Ephraimite]

Hello

I pray this speaks to someone....what I say has been learned through harsh experience.

I really don't believe we should be going to any ministry. They are based on a man or group of men's doctrine which is fed to folk as truth.

We have to learn to go to the Father for ourselves. Ezekiel 34 explains well the role irresponsible shepherds have played and still play.

Teachers are so guilty of cherry picking verses out of the word. The verse ' you shall know the truth and the truth shall set your free' is a classic, Jan.

Everything needs to be read in context of the whole bible.

If you do a study of 'truth', using Blueletterbible.org as a tool, you'll read this

Truth is true, reliable and stable doctrine which we can only get from the word.

Each verse in the word has to be a witness to and confirmation of what is written elsewhere, including the beginning of the bible.

That is why we are told to study:

“Study [be diligent] to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15)

The Parable of the Seeds demonstrates that, seed that is sown on good ground will flourish. Good ground is a knowledge of the word. The seed that grows on stony places with no depth or soil will wither.

The parable of the 10 virgins demonstrates it too, 5 are wise and 5 are foolish. The wise had their lamps well oiled. In other words they knew the reliable and stable truth of the word and were prepared for their groom. The foolish virgins missed the bridegroom's coming because they were used to looking to others to be feed them.

Look up Matthew 24 v 7 for a definition of wisdom -
“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:

Proverbs 1 v 7 for a definition of foolish

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 10 v 8 shows what wisdom and foolishness is.

The wise in heart will receive commands,
But a prating fool will fall.

Proverbs 6 v 23 for lamps

For the commandment is a lamp,
And the law a light;
Reproofs of instruction are the way of life,

Abba Father alone can feed us. That is why the greatest command of all is love which means to love Him, His commands, statutes and judgements. (AKA Law which has not been done away with as per Mark 5 v 18). We are commanded to love Him and Him alone alone with all our heart, strength and soul. Deuteronomy 6.

I urge you all to read the whole bible. It is the only way that we will come out of the deception of false prophets that we are told about in the end times in Matthew 24.

You really don't want to miss the bridegroom's second coming like the foolish virgins.