Fruit in the Bible

[Fireinfolding]

There is a GREAT Truth being expressed here! "Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit." (John 12:24)

That was the first one he showed me.

What I thought was kool too, is the full corn IN THE EAR and then the not muzzling THE MOUTH OF an Ox who treadeth out the CORN

(wheres the full corn?)

Still wonder on that one, could there be something in treading out the corn in the ear, thus given an ear to hear once the corn in the ear is treaded out by ((the mouth)) of an ox?

Perhaps I am thinking too hard on this?

 

[razzelflabben]

That was the first one he showed me.

What I thought was kool too, is the full corn IN THE EAR and then the not muzzling THE MOUTH OF an Ox who treadeth out the CORN

(wheres the full corn?)

Still wonder on that one, could there be something in treading out the corn in the ear, thus given an ear to hear once the corn in the ear is treaded out by ((the mouth)) of an ox?

Perhaps I am thinking too hard on this?

treading out is a process of removing the corn from the ear, so unless we are to pull our ears off our head so we can listen better, I'm not sure there is an analogy to be found in that part of the story. As to not muzzling the ox, that comes from allowing the ox to eat while he helps you tread the grain. It refers to the pay of the "pastor" "overseer" and is addressed in that same passage. Basically equating the overseer to the ox, who is working and earning his "pay".

 

[Fireinfolding]

treading out is a process of removing the corn from the ear, so unless we are to pull our ears off our head so we can listen better, I'm not sure there is an analogy to be found in that part of the story. As to not muzzling the ox, that comes from allowing the ox to eat while he helps you tread the grain. It refers to the pay of the "pastor" "overseer" and is addressed in that same passage. Basically equating the overseer to the ox, who is working and earning his "pay".

Money equals corn then?

Corn (or money) is located IN the ear, the MOUTH of an OX treadeth OUT the corn (or money) IN the EAR?

Is this right?

He says

1Cr 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

1Cr 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.


1Cr 9:33 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Why did he not write those things that it should be done unto him? Why would it be better for him to die in respects to his glorying in not doing such things unto him? And why if it is ordained that they which preach the gospel live of the gospel but in the same breath he in denying these things (for the gospels sake) so that he might actually be a partaker thereof with them (of the same gospel)?

 

[razeontherock]

I'm still not seeing how you are connecting Gal to SoS...please clarify this for me...thanks in advance.

once we understand your intent, we can compare it to the word of God and discover just how valuable it really is. first, please provide the passage you refer to when claiming God's love is like a pomegranate

My intent started with exactly what you are asking for, in post #7. Thus, it is not my intent that matters here, but G-d's. We each have a valid perspective on His purposes, and we each have our own failings in this regard. The Body is to combine strengths, and correct errors:

"the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body" (Ephesians 4:16)

...second, from my experience coupled with my obsessive study of love, I would have to say that the comparison is about there being no place that love does not touch...that love consumes us and fills in all the "empty spaces" of our lives.

Yes, quite! Likewise a pomegranate has no empty spaces, but is filled with goodness. (I eat the seeds too)

I have begun studying Gal. 5, and I don't think I can agree that it's intent is that all other fruit flows from love, though this is true, the intent as best I can tell is both, the spirit brings all these things listed, and all these things listed flow from love

Yup. Perhaps that is better than the way I mangled the old slogan. I think there is truth that, if we do not allow Love to manifest, we shut G-d out and bear no fruit.

 

[razzelflabben]

Money equals corn then?

Corn (or money) is located IN the ear, the MOUTH of an OX treadeth OUT the corn (or money) IN the EAR?

Is this right?

He says

1Cr 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

1Cr 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.


1Cr 9:33 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Why did he not write those things that it should be done unto him? Why would it be better for him to die in respects to his glorying in not doing such things unto him? And why if it is ordained that they which preach the gospel live of the gospel but in the same breath he in denying these things (for the gospels sake) so that he might actually be a partaker thereof with them (of the same gospel)?

It all goes back to a study of the entire teaching not just picking and choosing parts. I would love to talk about it in further detail but it would be off topic here. In fact, I was talking about it on another thread, presented scripture to show what I was saying, and I was told that I had no authority to teach it (keep in mind all I did was present scripture) because I was a woman. Makes me a little leary of talking about it in a thread not talking about the topic.

So a quick summary of Paul's teaching...Paul acknowledges that a pastor/overseer is worthy of pay, in fact, he even teaches those with him that it is God's way to see that their needs are met. He also teaches that preaching the gospel isn't about pay (money) that the reward for teaching the good news is a spiritual reward not an earthly one. It's another one of those instances of both/and not either/or. This teaching is why it is wise to look at a man who claims to be called by God to be a preacher, and see if he preaches the gospel even when pay is not involved. Way too many people go into the ministry for pay, when the scriptural teaching is that we don't do it for pay, but that pay is earned, and to the local church, pay should be offered. IOW's it's a two fold teaching. 1. to the pastor, don't preach expecting pay because your pay is spiritual not earthly. and 2. to the local congregation, pay the pastor he is serving you and deserves the pay, just as anyone who serves you does. Even more, his value is double that of others who serve you.

With one teaching to the pastor and the other to the local congregation, the teaching is complete and the criteria for the man called by God is tough.

 

[razzelflabben]

My intent started with exactly what you are asking for, in post #7.

but as I stated, I didn't follow your logic in post #7, thus asked for clarification so that I might consider it in light of scripture.

Thus, it is not my intent that matters here, but G-d's.

I'm pretty sure that God's intent is that every seeker would find truth not confusing in His words. What I am asking you for is to clear up some of the confusing I have since it wasn't there until you provided your post.

We each have a valid perspective on His purposes, and we each have our own failings in this regard. The Body is to combine strengths, and correct errors:

"the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body" (Ephesians 4:16)

which is exactly why understanding your comments is important.

Yes, quite! Likewise a pomegranate has no empty spaces, but is filled with goodness. (I eat the seeds too)

????? but you just said that the analogy is that we have to work hard to get any reward...and something about that being love...I really am not following your thoughts at all. As I read your post, the analogy is that we work hard but don't get much reward, I countered that with my analogy that love fills all the spaces, iow's is always the answer...you come back and say exactly....I don't see how working hard for little reward is the same thing as always the answer...please show me how they are the same thing in your eyes....

 

[razeontherock]

but as I stated, I didn't follow your logic in post #7, thus asked for clarification so that I might consider it in light of scripture.

There's not much in post #7 but Scripture. Consider the Scripture, it brings Light!

Psalm 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

 

[Fireinfolding]

It all goes back to a study of the entire teaching not just picking and choosing parts.

I was pointing out what was said in relation to the gospel, I think your big enough to read the context yourself, without me having to copy paste every single verse in the gospel. And after 24 years in the Lord I think I can too

I would love to talk about it in further detail but it would be off topic here. In fact, I was talking about it on another thread, presented scripture to show what I was saying, and I was told that I had no authority to teach it (keep in mind all I did was present scripture) because I was a woman. Makes me a little leary of talking about it in a thread not talking about the topic.

So a quick summary of Paul's teaching...Paul acknowledges that a pastor/overseer is worthy of pay, in fact, he even teaches those with him that it is God's way to see that their needs are met. He also teaches that preaching the gospel isn't about pay (money) that the reward for teaching the good news is a spiritual reward not an earthly one. It's another one of those instances of both/and not either/or. This teaching is why it is wise to look at a man who claims to be called by God to be a preacher, and see if he preaches the gospel even when pay is not involved. Way too many people go into the ministry for pay, when the scriptural teaching is that we don't do it for pay, but that pay is earned, and to the local church, pay should be offered. IOW's it's a two fold teaching. 1. to the pastor, don't preach expecting pay because your pay is spiritual not earthly. and 2. to the local congregation, pay the pastor he is serving you and deserves the pay, just as anyone who serves you does. Even more, his value is double that of others who serve you.

With one teaching to the pastor and the other to the local congregation, the teaching is complete and the criteria for the man called by God is tough.

Thought it was off topic?

Thanks, Corn is money, and so I feel a tad enlightened now

 

[razzelflabben]

There's not much in post #7 but Scripture. Consider the Scripture, it brings Light!

Psalm 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

wow, I hate it when I ask people to show me what I am missing and all they say is consider the words...if I hadn't already considered the words, if I hadn't already sought the Lord and His intent, if I hadn't already prayed and asked God to reveal to me what I was missing, and found no answers, I would have no reason to come here and ask you what you mean.

Whatever dude...I am trying with everything in me to understand what you are seeing that I am not. Including but not limited to seeking God. Shall I assume that because God hasn't told me what you think that what you are saying is wrong? That would be a total lack of love! No thanks! I asked you specific questions trying to clarify what you think and are saying, and you don't answer them, if you don't want me to know what you are talking about, just say, "I don't want you to know what I am saying" and move on, don't hide behind the argument that God will tell me what you are saying....God will tell me what God wants me to know, you are suppose to tell me what you want me to know. It isn't God's job to explain what you think, it's yours. God's job is to minister truth to me...

 

[razzelflabben]

I was pointing out what was said in relation to the gospel, I think your big enough to read the context yourself, without me having to copy paste every single verse in the gospel. And after 24 years in the Lord I think I can too




Thought it was off topic?

Thanks, Corn is money, and so I feel a tad enlightened now

you know what, I'm out of here...I try to have a rational discussion and everything I say is taken out of context and twisted into some sort of attack...have fun chatting among yourselves.

I ask for clarification and I'm too stupid to consider scripture...I talk about doing in depth study and I'm accused of belittling others by accusing them of not studying...etc. Too little love and too much belittling for me, have a great day, both of you.

 

[Save_Me_From_Myself]

Wow, such a fun, innocent topic I created turned into such a heated little discussion. Amazing lol

 

[razzelflabben]

Wow, such a fun, innocent topic I created turned into such a heated little discussion. Amazing lol

more amazing to me is that it all started because I asked someone to clarify what they said.

 

[Fireinfolding]

No one needs to go anywhere, Im requesting a 6 month ban, enjoy yourselves, catch ya next year

 

[razeontherock]

I'm really not sure how to clarify what I have said any better, nor why that might be needed. It is possible that the Lord shows one a thing, and not another ..

 

[razeontherock]

Wow, such a fun, innocent topic I created turned into such a heated little discussion. Amazing lol

Well, she only flamed herself. I guess that much isn't against the rules?

 

[razzelflabben]

No one needs to go anywhere, Im requesting a 6 month ban, enjoy yourselves, catch ya next year

I apologize if you thought I was only talking about you. In fact, I don't see why you need to leave (wanted to do this in PM but couldn't find your link) anyway, I was frustrated at the other poster for not just connecting his stupid dots for me, I feel like that is rude, disrespectful, selfish and the opposite of real love. Then, I talked to a friend that got me crying over our sons death again. When I read your post that seemed to accuse me falsely, it was the last straw. I came here looking for a bit of Christian fellowship, something I find in chat, debate, and discussion, but figured this was safe enough to avoid the things above. What I found was well, let's say, lack of true fellowship.

Sometimes, life clouds us from understanding what we are reading, as is the case this last week and our grief, our son should have been 20 last week, instead, we celebrate the 1 year of his death on this earth and his life in eternity. That can make it hard to read and understand what others are saying. So when I ask someone to connect the dots it isn't to be contrary, or to say that your opinion is over God's. I don't ask for clarification so that I can nit pic or pretend to have answers I don't. I ask for clarification because I think you might be able to teach me something, and I'm not clear as to what you want to relate.

When I say that we know, through the study of the totality of scripture, I am not suggesting you haven't studied, but rather I am suggesting that one passage alone will not conclude the matter.

So the question I have to come to is this....how is it that because I ask you to speak through the clouds of grief into my mind, that it equals all kinds of illusive and not kind remarks....how is it that when I suggest that we can't finish the discussion based on one passage alone it means that I am accusing someone of not studying or being immature? Seems to me that the Godly response, the loving response is to simple communicate rather than trying so hard to read into it what is not there so that you (generic you) can be something more than you really are.

Now...back to my leaving and your continuing on.

 

[C R F]

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