Frozen Embryos

[Monica02]

Should unwanted frozen embryos be allowed to die naturally. My understanding is that the Church teaches that one does not have to be kept alive by artificial life support. Is freezing considered life-support?

 

[InnerPhyre]

Freezing and discarding embryos is murder, same as abortion

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Freezing and discarding embryos is murder, same as abortion

Then why aren't fertilty clinics picketed like Planned Parenthood ? Also, why isn't fertility treatment one of the "non-nogociable issues" that Catholic voter are supposed to use as a basis for judging politicians ?

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Cosmic Charlie,

I am not sure what can be done about fertility treatment at the moment. Fertility treatment is another thing that supremely bothers me, but I guess that more attention is not given to it, because it is a battle that we really are not capable of winning at the moment. Abortion is however.

 

[geocajun]

Then why aren't fertilty clinics picketed like Planned Parenthood ? Also, why isn't fertility treatment one of the "non-nogociable issues" that Catholic voter are supposed to use as a basis for judging politicians ?

your posts are always so edifying charlie.

 

[Wiffey]

Fertility treatment can be one of those areas where there is a broad range of treatments, some of which (receiving meds to increase ovulation) is OK. Surgery to repair damaged fallopian tubes, etc is also OK. Other fertility treatments are questionable: IVF (if only 1 or 2 eggs are fertilized and ALL fertilized eggs are implanted).

It clearly becomes wrong when fertilized eggs are not all implanted (some are frozen and may or may not be used later-VERY wrong) or more fertilized eggs are implanted than the woman can realistically carry healthily to term. Sometimes they will implant 4 or 5 eggs at once, to increase the chances that at least one will survive and grow. However, all too often this produces a pregnancy with multiple babies. Frequently this situation leads to "selective reduction" (aborting one or more of the babies while leaving 1 or 2 in place).

Personally, I think it is sad to see so much effort and money spent on fertility treatments when there are so many children who desperately need homes and parents. I have heard that there are a MILLION orphaned children in Africa alone. Yet people spend thousands and thousands to try to create a biological child of their own, and even destroy some of these biological fetuses in the process. It seems so cold, such a tragedy!

When my mother was unable to have more children after me, my parents opened their hearts and their home any adopted internationally. I was 8 at the time. Out of their own religious convictions, they decided to adopt a child who would otherwise not be adopted or have a decent life. My sister was 8 years old and profoundly deaf. It was not easy to adopt an older child with a handicap, and there were some tough times and adjustments as we all learned sign language. But my sister grew up and went on to graduate from Gallaudet University. I shudder to think of what her fate might have been had she stayed in the orphanage in Korea. (As a deaf female, nobody had even tried to educate her. She could write one phrase in Korean that she thought was her name. A Korean friend was horrified when she saw it. It said "I am the dumb female.")

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

your posts are always so edifying charlie.

Have I offended you in some way ?

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Fertility treatment can be one of those areas where there is a broad range of treatments, some of which (receiving meds to increase ovulation) is OK. Surgery to repair damaged fallopian tubes, etc is also OK. Other fertility treatments are questionable: IVF (if only 1 or 2 eggs are fertilized and ALL fertilized eggs are implanted).

It clearly becomes wrong when fertilized eggs are not all implanted (some are frozen and may or may not be used later-VERY wrong) or more fertilized eggs are implanted than the woman can realistically carry healthily to term. Sometimes they will implant 4 or 5 eggs at once, to increase the chances that at least one will survive and grow. However, all too often this produces a pregnancy with multiple babies. Frequently this situation leads to "selective reduction" (aborting one or more of the babies while leaving 1 or 2 in place).

Personally, I think it is sad to see so much effort and money spent on fertility treatments when there are so many children who desperately need homes and parents. I have heard that there are a MILLION orphaned children in Africa alone. Yet people spend thousands and thousands to try to create a biological child of their own, and even destroy some of these biological fetuses in the process. It seems so cold, such a tragedy!

So why are we not doing anything about it ? Because we don't think we can win ? Since when are the followers of Christ afraid of not finding final victory ? Because it's hard ? As Christians we chose to do things that are hard.

To go after abortion a women choses after pregnancy with hammer and tongs and not go after abortion a women choses in order to get pregent is worse than evil.

Its indifferent. ....And indifference is the destoryer of worlds.

Stem cell researcher are making the case that frozen emberyo's can be used for research because WE HAVE ABANDONED THEM. If we don't care about them, who does ?

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Charlie,

So have you done anything about it?

 

[geocajun]

Have I offended you in some way ?

nope

 

[Monica02]

I totally agree with the Church's teaching that IVF is immoral and I agree that an embryo is a human being. I am adressing the embryos that no one wants to implant. I know that they should not have been created in the first place. I guess my question is letting them die a natural death okay because of the Church's teaching that people do not have to be subjected to extraordinary life support?

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Charlie,

So have you done anything about it?

I'm pointing out that these the Chruch as an instutuition and its auxiliary organzitions as well its laity are not addressing this serious moral issue.

I am shedding light in this situation and decrying the horrible wrong that it is.

What are YOU doing ?

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

nope

So what's with the snide comments than ?

...And don't get all wide-eyed innocence on me, you've been dropping little monosylablic jottings into my threads since before the election.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

This is an area that is rather technologically new, and therefore some of the theology that is used is still being clarified. There are some who advocate allowing "rescues" of frozen embryos- though completely illicit to become pregnant by such atrificial means under any other circumstances- there are advocates who think this would be a viable, licit solution.

The situation with frozen embryos is very, very complicated. The Church has and continues to speak out about the grave errors of divorcing the creative from the unitive act in any attempt to have children. IVF is ALWAYS wrong- because it ALWAYS divorces these two essential parts of the marital act.

When I was talking to my 6th and 7th grade RE students about this and described what is done to "harvest" eggs from the mom and then how the baby is created-- they were truly horrifed. One child said "It sounds like Frankenstein!" ANd I told them , "Yes!- It should sound horrible. It is like Frankenstein."

I tried very hard to explain, that the desire to have children is a very, very good thing, but that it is not okay to achieve that desire through any means. Just as giving to the poor is a very, very good thing- but that it wouldn't be okay to rob a bank to give to the poor.

First I pray that priests and bishops will have the courage to teach clearly and repeatedly the Church's teaching about IVF....

 

[EllenMoran]

Monica, unfortunately I have no idea on the answer to your question.

Charlie, my perspective would be this:

Should we be doing more about this? Sure. But in reality, we can't fight all battles on all fronts with the same amount of strength; nor should we necessarily use the same tactics for all of them. Also, due to some of the issues cited by Shannon and Wiffey, the clarification and preparation to launch a concerted effort against it is just a longer process. So, for right now abortion gets the lion's share of the visible effort and attention. We should take it on, even though it's complicated, but it will take a while to see that concerted effort.