From gay to God

[scraparcs]

No...but sometimes we still commit them over and over, no matter how much we request God's assistance.

 

[imind]

So, maybe in what amounts to a small minority of cases, there is a change in sexual orientation brought about by God.

there is not a shred of scientific evidence to support this.

 

[*Starlight*]

I accepted the standard line of thought that homosexuality is stable and unchanging and attempts to change it don't work much, but the more I see, the more I wonder if God can just up and change sexual orientation.

I mean, with God all things are possible. (Matt 19:25-26) So, maybe in what amounts to a small minority of cases, there is a change in sexual orientation brought about by God.

Well, I want to believe it can miraculously change, anyway.

Maybe God doesn't change people's sexual orientation, because there's nothing wrong with having a different sexual orientation?

 

[knightlight72]

No...but sometimes we still commit them over and over, no matter how much we request God's assistance.

Oh agreed. Our sinful nature does prefer sin. It is a struggle. We know with God, that we do not have to accept sin as good though.

It is in 1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

While we may want to sin, we don't have to accept we must sin.

 

[mpshiel]

Dr Ariel Shidlo and Dr. Michael Schroeder did a 7 year study of ex-gay's called "Changing Sexual Orientation: A consumer's report" that was published in a peer reviewed journal in 2002. There were 202 individuals, they had undergone, on average, 118 sessions of counselling with ex-gay ministries each over a period longer than two years. The number of the 202 which said they were no longer struggling and had fully transitioned to heteroseuxality: 8.

Number of those 8 which were currently employeed as counsellors with an ex-gay ministry and where an admission of same sex attraction would likely cost them thier job: 7

Number who, on a 1 year follow up who felt they had "failed": 176

Of the 176, number who reported that "conversion" had given them long term siginificant harm: 155

number who reported that spiritual harm such as complete loss of faith, or anger at and inability to trust God and the church: over 100

Conclusion: You are more than 10 times likely to have a loss of faith ranging from leaving Christianity to being distanced from God than you are "converting" - why a "spiritual" group would continue under such circumstances makes me wonder on whether they care and respect gay christians as sons and daughters of God or are taking the place of God deciding that if people can't do what they want when they want, then whatever spiritual damage that is done is suitable.



http://www.newdirection.ca/research/shidlo.htm

Reparative or Conversion Therapy is Banned and Britian and opposed in the US by the following organizations:

American Psychiatric Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Medical Association
American Psychological Association
American Counseling Association
National Association of School Psychologists
National Association of Social Workers
Royal College of Nursing



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy

As one doctor put is - you can try and pound a square peg into a round hole, but that isn't going to do good things for the peg.

There was also a study done by Lee Beckstead on 50 Mormons (those who enter conversion therapy have an even stronger motivation than protestants). 30 said the process was a failure, 20 said it was a success, but of the 40% who said it worked, it was noted that "No substantial or generalized heterosexual arousal was reported, and participants were not able to modify their tendency to be attracted to the same sex." So while they remained attracted to the same sex and didn't show attraction to the opposite sex, they did view themselves as heterosexual (so in this case the conversion was of the term, instead of the attraction).

http://www.mlp.org/resources/evanstalk.html

 

[scraparcs]

there is not a shred of scientific evidence to support this.

The problem is when someone says that they sought God and God changed their sexual orientation. What can I say, that there is no scientific evidence to support this?

I mean, that's true, there isn't any scientific evidence in support of changing orientation, and it is extremely rare, but what can I believe when one attests to their internal orientation?

 

[quatona]

The problem is when someone says that they sought God and God changed their sexual orientation. What can I say, that there is no scientific evidence to support this?

I mean, that's true, there isn't any scientific evidence in support of changing orientation, and it is extremely rare, but what can I believe when one attests to their internal orientation?

I guess people don´t have so much of a problem with what these persons feel has happened to them, but with the way it is used to argumentate that - given enough effort, prayer and whatnot - this is possible for everyone.

 

[meebs]

Maybe God doesn't change people's sexual orientation, because there's nothing wrong with having a different sexual orientation?

why dont more christians beleive this?

 

[meebs]

great - so if this person had problems and didnt like his homosexualty, fine - but the church shouldnt enforce it on others.

Personaly i have no issue with people no longer wanting to be "gay" if theyre not happy then they can change it all they want. but leave those people who are happy with it.

my concern is with chuches bringing up "de-gaying" programmes.

I thought god's "love" was supposed to be unconditional? If the christians are right then god made people that way in the first place!

 

[tocis]

I still do not understand why some Christians think that homosexuals need to be "healed", or that homosexuality is such an abomination that one needs to be "cured" of it through the power of Christ.

Judging definitely from my own experience, it seems that by far most (if not all?) of the "christians" who gladly condemn homosexuality do so not because the bible happens to say that (it doesn't... or rather, there are verses contradicting that image pretty clearly), but because this view happens to be compatible with their own prejudices.
Granted that I also don't like to see male homosexuals kissing et al... but first, that might just as well be because my own views shine through - as a male hetero I see women as "the erotic gender" - and second, I can imagine that they might well think the same of me when I kiss my wife, so... let's just move out of each other's way and be happy, no?

Why aren't Christians forming ex-bi/lesbian ministries as well, after all obviously they must be sinners as well.

Funny, no? If we are to judge by most of the fanatical christians, female homosexuality doesn't seem to exist at all.

 

[scraparcs]

I guess people don´t have so much of a problem with what these persons feel has happened to them, but with the way it is used to argumentate that - given enough effort, prayer and whatnot - this is possible for everyone.

True, I'm just saying that in rare cases, I have to believe that sexual orientation can change. Given the extremely negative outcomes associated with attempting to force a change, it seems rather unethical to attempt such.

 

[imind]

I mean, that's true, there isn't any scientific evidence in support of changing orientation, and it is extremely rare, but what can I believe when one attests to their internal orientation?...


I have to believe that sexual orientation can change.

acknowledge that they believe it, but also understand that its not true. i do understand your dilemma, and do appreciate your want to believe them.

 

[Q2004]

but leave those people who are happy with it.

And don't go around trying to convince them they shouldn't be happy with it either. It seems to work as such:

A "It's wrong! You'll be damned! Repent!"
B "What!? How can I change!?"
A "Well, we've got this program, see?"