From a Christian and logical perpsective on homosexuality.

[BAFRIEND]

There is nothing in the Bible that says "homosexual offenders." That is a mistranslation.

You say it is not in the Bible, then you say it is a mistranslation.

Which is it because obviously it cannot be both can it ?

 

[BAFRIEND]

We now agree that a certain prejudice was read into these verses, and that we do not condemn people just because they were born with a different color skin.

You are stating that prejudice was read into the verses- I was quoting Corinthians 6:9 which is explicity clear. The message in C 6:9 is not to call the sexually immoral our brother.

 

[Ohioprof]

the Bible only speaks of marriage in context between a man and a woman, time after time. No such relationship exists nor is even mentioned in the Bible although scores of marriages between man and woman are present.

Jesus speaks while teaching about divorce of the religous legality of marriage- meaning it is a sacrament, and speaking of marriage only between a man and a woman.

You can be intimate and caring torwards another and by Biblical definition still be guilty of adultery and fornication. When we hold our feelings to be equal or above God's law, we become guilty of sin through relativism and commit blaspheme. A person can live their life as subjectively as they wish, God's law and judgement is objective.

It's a leap of interpretation to suggests that the Bible's silence on same-sex marriage equals condemnation of it, or means that same-sex marriage cannot and should not exist. One cannot read "sin" into silence.

 

[Ohioprof]

You are stating that prejudice was read into the verses- I was quoting Corinthians 6:9 which is explicity clear. The message in C 6:9 is not to call the sexually immoral our brother.

It's making an assumption to finger a married same-sex couple as "sexually immoral." Nothing in the Bible calls a married same-sex couple "sexually immoral." The Bible is entirely silent on this, as was Jesus.

 

[Ohioprof]

You say it is not in the Bible, then you say it is a mistranslation.

Which is it because obviously it cannot be both can it ?

It's a mistranslation of the original. It was never in the original text; it has been translated inaccurately in modern versions of the Bible.

 

[BAFRIEND]

It's a mistranslation of the original. It was never in the original text; it has been translated inaccurately in modern versions of the Bible.

I am a lay person as I trust you are also. It is not place to claim that phds in history, language, or religion among others have inaccurately translated the Bible.

Nor is it my place to tell the Rabbis and Christian theologians, who for thousands of years have instructed that homosexuality is objectivel immoral that the rules have changed.

The Bible is entirely silent on this, as was Jesus.

Fornication and adultery time and again as grave sin and the NTs teaching against sexual immorality is not at all silent.

 

[OllieFranz]

It's a mistranslation of the original. It was never in the original text; it has been translated inaccurately in modern versions of the Bible.

I am a lay person as I trust you are also. It is not place to claim that phds in history, language, or religion among others have inaccurately translated the Bible.

Nor is it my place to tell the Rabbis and Christian theologians, who for thousands of years have instructed that homosexuality is objectivel immoral that the rules have changed.

So you saying that you are not interested in trying to learn what God is teaching, but are content to find teachers who confirm your beliefs and blindly accept their proclamations?

It is not that hard for even a non-professional to do adequate research, especially with all of the resourses available online.

It's making an assumption to finger a married same-sex couple as "sexually immoral." Nothing in the Bible calls a married same-sex couple "sexually immoral." The Bible is entirely silent on this, as was Jesus.

Fornication and adultery time and again as grave sin and the NTs teaching against sexual immorality is not at all silent.

Fornication and adultery mat very well be condemned as sinful, but loving relations within the context of a committed marriage are neither fornication nor adultery.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Fornication and adultery mat very well be condemned as sinful, but loving relations within the context of a committed marriage are neither fornication nor adultery.

Go through all the books in the New Testament. Time and again marriage counseling and discussion of marriage are only the context of man and wife.

Why the absence of homosexual marriage in the Bible ? It is simple: there is no place for homosexual marriage nor relationship within the context of Judism nor Christianity. Therefore it is adultery and fornication.

 

[Ohioprof]

I am a lay person as I trust you are also. It is not place to claim that phds in history, language, or religion among others have inaccurately translated the Bible.

Nor is it my place to tell the Rabbis and Christian theologians, who for thousands of years have instructed that homosexuality is objectivel immoral that the rules have changed.



Fornication and adultery time and again as grave sin and the NTs teaching against sexual immorality is not at all silent.

I have a PhD in history. It is not "the place" of any theologian to impose "rules" on people. That is not what theologians do.

The term "homosexuals" is an inaccurate translation. It is my place to tell you that. And same-sex spousal relationships are neither fornication nor adultery. They are not "sexual immorality."

 

[EnemyPartyII]

We all know that lying is a sin and kleptomania is a disorder and yet no one I have heard of yet claims God condones either or is the source of the evil/disorder.

Lying and stealing harm others, homosexuality doesn't.

God created man and woman. If his design was for homosexuality, don't you think he would have just created only one sex ?

Nope, because his design allows for BOTH heterosexuality AND homosexuality

All reference to marriage in the Bible is man and woman and Jesus makes clear the legal status of such in his discussions on divorce.

The Bible makes reference to polygamy as perfectly acceptible too... seems you are prepared to run the Bible through a couple of nonBiblical filters in regards to other matters, why not homosexuality?

 

[Ohioprof]

Go through all the books in the New Testament. Time and again marriage counseling and discussion of marriage are only the context of man and wife.

Why the absence of homosexual marriage in the Bible ? It is simple: there is no place for homosexual marriage nor relationship within the context of Judism nor Christianity. Therefore it is adultery and fornication.

This is incorrect. The fact that an institution had not yet been created or recognized when the various books of the Bible were written does not mean that the institution cannot exist today. Same-sex marriage clearly exists today. You may not wish to recognize it, and that is up to you.

The Bible is entirely silent about computers. That does not mean that computers cannot or do not exist. The writers of the various books of the Bible were people of their time. They did not know or anticipate everything. They were just human, after all.

 

[BigBadWlf]

No.

Well then is it like the handicapped lifestyle?

You see the Bible explicity states that homosexual offenders will not inherit the kingdom.

Not by any literal interpretation.

That means that homosexuality is an objective moral disorder decreed by God the Creator.

You keep using this phrase yet it is apparent you don’t grasp it’s meaning. To be objective in the moral sense your reasoning would have to be free of your own subjective prejudices. You have never presented anything on the subject that was not entirely subjective in nature.

No such comment is made against a particular race that I am aware of.

Those who hold racists views also speak of objective morals and the designs of God. while I have asked many times you have never been able to differentiate just how your arguments differ.

So the point is that this group is not entitled to special protection under the law for discrimination.

One cannot tell religious minorities unless the “confess it” so by your “logic” non-Christians are not entitled to equal rights.

Biology, social depravation, psychology, choice- but God does not create homosexual orientation,

Just like skin color – God designed and created it.

 

[Criada]

God is perfectly capable, should He wish to, of altering a person's sexuality.
And I have been praying for 20 + years that He would alter mine...
As yet, He hasn't. Surely, if He hated it that much, and I have been more than willing to change, He would have done something about it by now?
Which leaves me with the options that
1) - He can't do it.... which doesn't fit with what I know of God, or with what the Bible says.
2) He doesn't care, or listen to my prayers. Which again, doesn't fit... I know that He loves me, I know that He does answer prayer.
3) His answer is no - which means that He wants me to be the way He made me...


Perhaps there is another option which I have missed... I am willing to listen if anyone can throw light on this!
Because believe me, living in a heterosexual marriage is not easy when it is not natural to you! And whilst i wouldn't change the choices I made, I would very much like to understand.

 

[BAFRIEND]

I have a PhD in history. It is not "the place" of any theologian to impose "rules" on people. That is not what theologians do.

The term "homosexuals" is an inaccurate translation. It is my place to tell you that. And same-sex spousal relationships are neither fornication nor adultery. They are not "sexual immorality."

In the Christian context, if homosexuality is fornication and adultery- and the Bible also outlaws sodomy, then those involved in same sex relationships are sexually immoral.

Regardless if the term homosexual is used or not, there is ample scripture condemning such relationships and the activity to support the knowledge that the gaylifestyle and relationships are contextually sinful to Christianity.

While the ample evidence is there to condemn it, there is not a single thread of evidence to support it.

The term kleptomania is not in the Bible either- but we all know what the Bible states about stealing and lying- a translator could exchange the term kleptomania for thief, and there would be no debate would there ?

 

[BAFRIEND]

Lying and stealing harm others, homosexuality doesn't.

R.I.P. Ryan White.

 

[BigBadWlf]

In the Christian context, if homosexuality is fornication and adultery

It is no more and no less than heterosexuality is adultery or fornication

- and the Bible also outlaws sodomy,

It doesn’t by any literal translation

then those involved in same sex relationships are sexually immoral.

So they are not

Regardless if the term homosexual is used or not, there is ample scripture condemning such relationships and the activity to support the knowledge that the gaylifestyle and relationships are contextually sinful to Christianity.

Wrong again. Any literal and contextual interruption of scripture cannot be shown to condemn homosexuality

While the ample evidence is there to condemn it,

No evidence for condemnation

there is not a single thread of evidence to support it.

Absence is not an assertion

The term kleptomania is not in the Bible either- but we all know what the Bible states about stealing and lying- a translator could exchange the term kleptomania for thief, and there would be no debate would there ?[/quote]


Kleptomania is a mental illness.

Homosexuality is not and it is a lie to assert or imply that it is


So what does the bible have to say about presenting false witness about/regarding homosexuality?

 

[BigBadWlf]

R.I.P. Ryan White.

Corrected:

So you are using the existence of a virus and the tragic death of a young person to justify your personal prejudice.

Sick…truly sick

 

[naotmaa]

So you are blaming the victim of a couple of bigots who one night decided ot kidnap, torture and murder a member of a minority.

How Christian of you

Actually Ryan White was the hemophilliac who died of AIDs. Still, I fail to see the connection to homosexuality. This is a nice quote from Ryan's mother on the topic, "Ryan always said, 'I'm just like everyone else with AIDS, no matter how I got it.' And he would never have lived as long as he did without the gay community. The people we knew in New York made sure we knew about the latest treatments way before we would have known in Indiana. I hear mothers today say they're not gonna work with no gay community on anything. Well, if it comes to your son's life, you better start changing your heart and your attitude around."

 

[BAFRIEND]

So you are blaming the victim of a couple of bigots who one night decided ot kidnap, torture and murder a member of a minority.

How Christian of you

You are speaking of Mathew Shepherd who was trick rolled trying to exchange drugs for sex and was killed after he sexually assaulted someone.

That is hardly the person you want for a poster boy- unless of course you want to make the political statement that drug dealers should not get trick rolled.

 

[BAFRIEND]

And he would never have lived as long as he did without the gay community.

He would still be alive today as would countless others if not for the gay lifestyle.