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Really? Jesus didn't have any in-group biases?
Does everyone go to heaven when they die or just those that believe in Jesus lord and savior?
This thread is about RACISM and RACISM as it is experienced in this nation alone. Please don't muddy the waters with metaphysical red-herrings, Ana!
Ummmm....
I apologize...you responded to a post about tribalism and in-group biases so I figured those were valid avenues of discussion. Particularly when discussing the messiah of a literal tribe that sees itself as
god's chosen people...and uses derogatory words to describe everyone else like "heathen".
This thread is about RACISM and RACISM as it is experienced in this nation alone. Please don't muddy the waters with metaphysical red-herrings, Ana!
No matter.
Only those who accept Jesus into their heart as Savior and Lord will enter the Kingdom of God.
If someone wants to discuss the Gospel, then let's discuss the Gospel.
This is not a forum where Christians are asked to defend their faith against objections and criticism from non-believers. Non-Christian members who would like to challenge Christian theology, beliefs and practices, should start a thread in the Christian Apologetics forum.
I understand. But take an analogy from street basketball: you call your own fouls. But just because you are fouled, doesn't mean you have to call it.
If someone wants to discuss the Gospel, maybe it's better to discuss the Gospel than to call a foul.
I could essentially say, "Fine, have at it, Ana!" and permit you to continue on for the sake of discussion since you do have an interesting point, but I'm afraid that if I were to do so, it would de-volve the thread into a form of Christian Apologetics, making this a whole other kind of discussion than the essentially social and political one I've attempted to focus upon. Besides, I could have sworn that the article in my OP had something to do with African-Americans being brought as slaves to already inhabited 'New World' shores 400 years ago ... so let's stick with that.
Lol that's fair...
Did you already define racism? That might be helpful so we aren't talking past each other.
Really? Jesus didn't have any in-group biases?
Does everyone go to heaven when they die or just those that believe in Jesus lord and savior?
You can believe that racism today is just a primitive evolutionary holdover, but I'd like to see your sources for this. But even if this is the case, I think it's safe to say we've evolved enough that we can do better. Jesus did better ... Paul did better. Even Peter did better with a little bit of educational prodding...
Humans have the opportunity in this life to be more than thoughtless beasts.
Jesus probably had biases as every other human being does, the point is that he did not allow them to limit his responses to people he encountered.
I'd respond....but @2PhiloVoid wants to drop this line of discussion.
No, by all means--if you have a comment to share that doesn't 'just' center on the metaphysical but rather on the temporal religious ideologies that have abounded in the heads of folks in the U.S. over the past 400 years, and you think there's something in the Bible regarding Jesus that ties into this, please share!
But I don't want this thread to devolve into a "...but God separates Sheeps from Goats! How is that any different?" .................. 1st: It's different ontologically.
2nd: Since it's different ontologically, it would be a red-herring to the actual racial issues and divisions, both felt and projected, that are still remaining and floating about today.
What I have in mind for this thread, if you want to bring 'bible' into it, would be to talk about how old immoral misinterpretations about the 'Curse of Ham' still play in some people's thinking, and so on and so forth; bring up some ideas that some people STILL bandy about with today that contribute to racist thinking.... that kind of thing.
So, going back to the OP, Ana. What ideologies, and not just those of the Bible, do you think continue to be relied upon and which tend to promulgate racist thinking between folks of different ethnicities in the U.S.?
True enough. But what ideology do you think specifically drives the impetus to still refuse humanitarian, let alone equal, treatment to other folks who just happen to have different skin pigmentation or slightly different physical features?
I'm not holding you to a different standard. Maybe you've misunderstood what I've said: I don't want to see metaphysical constructs used in some parallel fashion here in this thread: essentially because we're not focusing upon God in His Eternal Glory and as He will then separate wheat from chaff. HOWEVER, if you think Jesus, as a human teacher said something that infers "racism," that in turn has been an influence in American racism over the past 400 years (and/or still today), then by all means, feel free to mention it if you think it produces what can be clearly discerned as an aspect of "racist ideology."Well this is a ridiculous request. @FireDragon76 didn't address any metaphysics...so why am I being held to a different standard?
Is this because I'm white or an atheist?
Ok. So, are you wanting to say that 'tribalism' is an aspect of today's "racist ideologies" that are still extant?But still tribalism.
We're discussing the make up of "racist ideologies" that perpetuate a sense of racial US vs. THEM thinking, rather than just a US form of biological thinking.You asked about the causes of racism. Myself and others pointed out the inherent tribalism/in-group bias in mankind. Are we discussing racism or it's causes?
Ok. If you know the 'racist' mind (and maybe you do with the hollywood-ized representation I've seen in Criminal Minds over the past few months), then go ahead and share what other elements you think contribute to the reasons that various people in the U.S. may continue to harbor fictional views about some notion called "race" that doesn't comport with reality.If we're discussing it's causes....the conversation is going to involve ideas other than racism. It would be weird to argue that racist ideas are caused by racist ideas. That's circular.
See above.You brought up Jesus....not me.
I'm not holding you to a different standard. Maybe you've misunderstood what I've said: I don't want to see metaphysical constructs used in some parallel fashion here in this thread: essentially because we're not focusing upon God in His Eternal Glory and as He will then separate wheat from chaff. HOWEVER, if you think Jesus, as a human teacher said something that infers "racism," that in turn has been an influence in American racism over the past 400 years (and/or still today), then by all means, feel free to mention it if you think it produces what can be clearly discerned as an aspect of "racist ideology."
Ok. So, are you wanting to say that 'tribalism' is an aspect of today's "racist ideologies" that are still extant?
We're discussing the make up of "racist ideologies" that perpetuate a sense of racial US vs. THEM thinking, rather than just a US form of biological thinking.
Ok. If you know the 'racist' mind (and maybe you do with the hollywood-ized representation I've seen in Criminal Minds over the past few months), then go ahead and share what other elements you think contribute to the reasons that various people in the U.S. may continue to harbor fictional views about some notion called "race" that doesn't comport with reality.
I'm only writing in the context of my OP, and I meant the former. Jesus and Paul were not racist, and neither was Peter.What did you mean by this statement?
"Jesus did better ... Paul did better. Even Peter did better with a little bit of educational prodding..."
Are you saying Jesus didn't engage in racism in the US? Or are you saying that Jesus didn't engage in tribalism of any kind?
I felt it was obvious you meant the latter...but perhaps you'd like to clarify.
Ok. I see I'm being to general here. Let's just talk "ideals" or "essential principles" that may be inherent to and help to strongly drive an ideology, such as racism....such as the idea that White folks are somehow 'better' than folks of any other ethnicity. Is that better?What "racist ideologies"? There's racism but the overwhelming majority of it would not constitute an ideology.
It can be any and all of them; you don't think I'm just trying to hold the coals to the philosophical feat of primarily White Christians do you?What ideologies are you talking about? I've heard of some from groups like the Nation of Islam...but to be honest, I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about.
Anyone who holds an idea or set of ideas in their little noggins that contributes to a pattern of false evaluation about other people of other ethnicities, or an idea that certain ethnicities are genetically superior or inferior.Again, not sure what you mean by "racist mind"....
Why harbor any degree of this kind of thinking? It's not like it doesn't transfer since there are usually 'reasons' why some person may think another person's ethnicity contributes a genetic deficiency.It's not as if someone who thinks their daughter shouldn't date black guys holds the same beliefs as a person who thinks asians are bad at driving...though we would rightly call both of these ideas racist.
Yes.Generally speaking, the human mind has a natural tendency towards pattern seeking....so we're inclined to believe we've found connections between things that aren't connected. Furthermore, confirmation bias is a persistent subconscious bias that is....apparently....very difficult to consciously avoid.
So, what do you think could be done, or should be done, to disabuse people today of these false notions about genetic inequality between races that could contribute to a person of one ethnicity working against another person of another ethnicity?I'd say that together, these two tendencies cause people to believe that generalized assumptions about various races are "true".
We're discussing the make up of "racist ideologies" that perpetuate a sense of racial US vs. THEM thinking, rather than just a US form of biological thinking.
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