From 1619 to 2019: 400 years of racial progress?

2PhiloVoid

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Another Thanksgiving has come and gone and after having visited Williamsburg, VA this past week, looking upon small masses of my fellow Americans who were, like me, out and about with family, I thought about how far our supposed 'Christianized' and even 'Enlightened' nation has come in its own racial relations.

In connection to the above, I've been also reflecting over the contents of the following article which focuses upon the fact that 1619 was a pivotal year for the demographic and political development of some of the people groups who, together, make up the now present United States in 2019.

1619: The Year That Shaped America

So, why can't we all just get over the artificial racial divides that we've had in the U.S. for four centuries? What moral or ideological incongruities continue to stand in the way of political and moral progress among an ethnically diverse population of U.S. citizens?


**********************************************************

EDIT: For those who may not be informed about what RACISM is, for the sake of this thread, here's the essential definition(s) we'll be working with...

Definition of RACISM
 
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Al Touthentop

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So, why can't we all just get over the artificial racial divides that we've had in the U.S. for four centuries? What moral or ideological incongruities continue to stand in the way of political and moral progress among an ethnically diverse population of U.S. citizens?


Acts 17:26-28
And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’

Christians ought to recognize that there is no difference between one 'race' and the next. 6000 years ago, this concept was brought to the world. It was adherents of Darwin's theories who corrupted the idea and taught that there were biological and intellectual differences between the peoples of the earth.

Aaron and his sister were angry with Moses because he married a black woman.

Numbers 12:1
Then Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

God rebuked them for their prejudice. Ironically, he made Miriam "white as snow" by giving her leprosy. And for what? For merely speaking ill of Moses because he had married this African woman. Any Christian who continues to believe that certain people are inferior to them because of skin color ought to be ashamed, not triumphal in their superiority.

Racial superiority was never a tenet approved of by God.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Acts 17:26-28


Christians ought to recognize that there is no difference between one 'race' and the next. 6000 years ago, this concept was brought to the world. It was adherents of Darwin's theories who corrupted the idea and taught that there were biological and intellectual differences between the peoples of the earth.

Aaron and his sister were angry with Moses because he married a black woman.

Numbers 12:1


God rebuked them for their prejudice. Ironically, he made Miriam "white as snow" by giving her leprosy. And for what? For merely speaking ill of Moses because he had married this African woman. Any Christian who continues to believe that certain people are inferior to them because of skin color ought to be ashamed, not triumphal in their superiority.

Racial superiority was never a tenet approved of by God.

Those are some thoughtful points and I agree with you that we might expect that people---even a number of Christians---in the U.S. (and maybe in other English speaking countries) would have alleviated themselves by now of all racial prejudices and various attempts to find social advantage over people of other ethnic backgrounds, but this still isn't quite the case, is it? Why do you think it's still difficult for some people to finally let go of racist type thinking, even in the U.S., Al?
 
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Al Touthentop

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Well, not only have many generations been subjected to Darwinist theory here in the US, people are loathe to look at the past and judge it rightly.

Many slave owners in the US and in the Colonies prior, viewed Africans as inferior people even before Darwin wrote 'The Origin of the Species.' Many of those same people went to church and considered themselves followers of Christ.

Because people feel threatened by any harsh criticism of America's past, and they know deep down that reconciliation would require repentance and forgiveness, they'd rather just ignore the past and pretend that it has no bearing on how our governments act today. "Get over it" is the mantra. Meanwhile, the vast majority of our prison population is drawn from the minority and we can't seem to grasp that this is itself evidence of the racially motivated nature of our justice system.

We're in denial. Distrust of people who look and act differently is human nature. It's culturally built-in (it wasn't put there by God). God asks us to change, to repent of our human failings. We are to follow in Jesus' footsteps. Had skin color ever been a valid reason to feel superior, the eunich in Acts 8 (a black Jew) would never have been approached by Philip. The Holy Spirit never would have sent him to preach to that man.

The command to love our neighbors as we love ourselves is a hard command. But we weren't called to easy work. We weren't called to be rich as these modern witches who call themselves preachers of God tell us on T.V. We were called to serve others in humility and love. Super hard concept to accept.
 
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Halbhh

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Those are some thoughtful points and I agree with you that we might expect that people---even a number of Christians---in the U.S. (and maybe in other English speaking countries) would have alleviated themselves by now of all racial prejudices and various attempts to find social advantage over people of other ethnic backgrounds, but this still isn't quite the case, is it? Why do you think it's still difficult for some people to finally let go of racist type thinking, even in the U.S., Al?
I wonder if people are accepting for example, with love in their hearts, North European immigrants in their huge number, and their first generation children (Brits, Swedes, Lithuanians, Polish, German -- our own predominate ancestry often for many of us here...)

...but not Latin immigrants...who have skin that is more brown.

In their hearts. That question does come up with the willingness of some to block immigrants from south of our border.
 
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Silmarien

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I wonder if people are accepting for example, with love in their hearts, North European immigrants in their huge number, and their first generation children (Brits, Swedes, Lithuanians, Polish, German -- our own predominate ancestry often for many of us here...)

On the other hand... Help Wanted. No Irish Need Apply.

The anti-Hispanic bias is a strange one, because I think it combines racial animus with the centuries old anti-Catholic hostility that led to a ton of propaganda against the Spanish Empire. Many of the anti-Hispanic stereotypes are very similar to the old anti-Spanish ones.
 
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Halbhh

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On the other hand... Help Wanted. No Irish Need Apply.

The anti-Hispanic bias is a strange one, because I think it combines racial animus with the centuries old anti-Catholic hostility that led to a ton of propaganda against the Spanish Empire. Many of the anti-Hispanic stereotypes are very similar to the old anti-Spanish ones.
An interesting point I heard the other day on the radio: it's much harder to imagine bad things about other people when you meet them face to face; instead, they become people. :)
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I wonder if people are accepting for example, with love in their hearts, North European immigrants in their huge number, and their first generation children (Brits, Swedes, Lithuanians, Polish, German -- our own predominate ancestry often for many of us here...)

...but not Latin immigrants...who have skin that is more brown.

In their hearts. That question does come up with the willingness of some to block immigrants from south of our border.

True enough. But what ideology do you think specifically drives the impetus to still refuse humanitarian, let alone equal, treatment to other folks who just happen to have different skin pigmentation or slightly different physical features?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Well, not only have many generations been subjected to Darwinist theory here in the US, people are loathe to look at the past and judge it rightly.

Many slave owners in the US and in the Colonies prior, viewed Africans as inferior people even before Darwin wrote 'The Origin of the Species.' Many of those same people went to church and considered themselves followers of Christ.

Because people feel threatened by any harsh criticism of America's past, and they know deep down that reconciliation would require repentance and forgiveness, they'd rather just ignore the past and pretend that it has no bearing on how our governments act today. "Get over it" is the mantra. Meanwhile, the vast majority of our prison population is drawn from the minority and we can't seem to grasp that this is itself evidence of the racially motivated nature of our justice system.

We're in denial. Distrust of people who look and act differently is human nature. It's culturally built-in (it wasn't put there by God). God asks us to change, to repent of our human failings. We are to follow in Jesus' footsteps. Had skin color ever been a valid reason to feel superior, the eunich in Acts 8 (a black Jew) would never have been approached by Philip. The Holy Spirit never would have sent him to preach to that man.

The command to love our neighbors as we love ourselves is a hard command. But we weren't called to easy work. We weren't called to be rich as these modern witches who call themselves preachers of God tell us on T.V. We were called to serve others in humility and love. Super hard concept to accept.

Those assessments are definitely something for us to think about. If I understand you correctly, it almost sounds like you're saying that some people in the U.S. detest the idea that in order to mesh with others who have another, different ethnicity, they may have to go a "2nd Mile" in order to make that interpersonal meshing a social and spiritual reality.

In a nation that supposedly values Pluralism and Diversity, why do you think humility and love are "super hard concepts to accept," Al?
 
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Al Touthentop

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Those assessments are definitely something for us to think about. If I understand you correctly, it almost sounds like you're saying that some people in the U.S. detest the idea that in order to mesh with others who have another, different ethnicity, they may have to go a "2nd Mile" in order to make that interpersonal meshing a social and spiritual reality.

In a nation that supposedly values Pluralism and Diversity, why do you think humility and love are "super hard concepts to accept," Al?

Well, we don't value pluralism and diversity. Political correctness is the repudiation of those values.

In spite of that, humility and love don't come naturally for most people. They are practiced. And as a nation we don't practice those things. We're generally enamored by the cult of personality and power. Look at how dispensationalists embrace an earthly kingdom to come because it represents God destroying people on earth which they hope to witness someday.

Look at how this country embraces regime change war and foreign meddling. We're not a Christian nation by any stretch of the imagination. The way of Christ is narrow, not broad.
 
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An interesting point I heard the other day on the radio: it's much harder to imagine bad things about other people when you meet them face to face; instead, they become people. :)

I agree. If we are going to get past our prejudices we have to spend time together. We have to experience and see the humanity in each other. We have to see that we are the same. That can happen if we are spending time together, seeing the other experience and struggle and succeed in life, just as we do. The sad irony is, if our churches were better integrated, the opportunity to experience that would be ever present. But, as Dr. Martin Luther King pointed out, Sunday at 11am is one of the most segregated hours in the week. It has gotten better, but not enough to represent, "In Christ there is no Greek, no Roman, etc."

http://okra.stanford.edu/transcript...05Scans/17Apr1960_InterviewonMeetthePress.pdf
 
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essentialsaltes

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Quid est Veritas?

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It is simply untrue that "getting to know people" leads to less racial and ethnic division. Familiarity breeds contempt as surely as understanding. For instance, Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda lived together in the same neighbourhoods, yet Hutus hacked their neighbours to death in bloody genocide; or Serb and Bosniak in 1995; or Germans and the Jews in their midst prior to WWII.

What has been shown is that education diminishes racial and ethnic tension, but again depends what you are taught. If you are taught that one race is the Master, or that your land was stolen by your neighbour, inevitably that would worsen division.

It is natural for man to create an Us and Them. Even musical appreciation lines up to identity, with conservatism more likely to favour country and liberalism hip-hop and such, or ethnic musical appreciation. Often, the fact of labelling something as belonging to X, is enough to create identity differences. Studies have been done that show that even arbitrarily grouping people together for whatever reason, increases empathic response; and conversely decreases it for the outgroup individuals.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Speaking of Virginia, it took the Warren Court in the 1960s to overthrow this kind of thinking (from a lower court judge):

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And, but for the interference with his arrangement, there would be no cause for such marriage. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

well okay the thinking remained, but the laws against miscegenation were struck down.

We might want to see if we can find out who the judge presiding over the grand jury was in that case, because as your document notes, the comment you've posted above was his 'opinion,' which leaves me to think that he had terrible hermeneutical ability, next to nil even.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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It's a democracy, and "identity politics" works with some voters.

There's "identity politics" and then there's "racial identity politics," and this latter kind of thinking really shouldn't manifest among those who call themselves "Christian."
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Racism is a function of differences. Eliminate those differences and...problem solved.

You're welcome. :D

This doesn't make any sense to me, so you might have to explain a little better to my educated, biblically oriented mind what this is supposed to "mean" OldWiseGuy.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I agree. If we are going to get past our prejudices we have to spend time together. We have to experience and see the humanity in each other. We have to see that we are the same. That can happen if we are spending time together, seeing the other experience and struggle and succeed in life, just as we do. The sad irony is, if our churches were better integrated, the opportunity to experience that would be ever present. But, as Dr. Martin Luther King pointed out, Sunday at 11am is one of the most segregated hours in the week. It has gotten better, but not enough to represent, "In Christ there is no Greek, no Roman, etc."

http://okra.stanford.edu/transcript...05Scans/17Apr1960_InterviewonMeetthePress.pdf

Well, that may be, brother, but IF the Bible says that God separated the races and didn't intend for them to comingle, well then, what are you going to do about that fact?
 
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