Friendships Between Belief-Systems

[quatona]

I recently found myself fending off some criticism for having a long-standing friendship with a freemason. This reminded me of a similar experience many years ago, when a Christian criticized me heavily for a close friendship with an atheist.

The criticism leaves open some big questions. Personally, such friendships could not exist for me with those atheists and others who are anti-Christian, but many of them are not hostile to my faith and so the ones I have been close to have been this gentler kind.

The critics usually claim it is my duty to spend any time with these "infidels" attempting to evangelize them. They imply that I am sinning if I simply enjoy my friends' company and value their friendship.

What do y'all think? Should you automatically end relationships with unbelievers just based on their unbelief or should you maintain close friendships as long as they are not pressing against your own faith?

I can´t seem to understand this sentiment. For me, it´s a crucial criterium for a friendship that we are willing and able to confront each other with the differences in our beliefs, convictions and world-views.
Sheltering your beliefs from being questioned seems to require some sort of insecurity about them while at the same time being determined to cling to them no matter what.

 

[keith99]

I recently found myself fending off some criticism for having a long-standing friendship with a freemason. This reminded me of a similar experience many years ago, when a Christian criticized me heavily for a close friendship with an atheist.

The criticism leaves open some big questions. Personally, such friendships could not exist for me with those atheists and others who are anti-Christian, but many of them are not hostile to my faith and so the ones I have been close to have been this gentler kind.

The critics usually claim it is my duty to spend any time with these "infidels" attempting to evangelize them. They imply that I am sinning if I simply enjoy my friends' company and value their friendship.

What do y'all think? Should you automatically end relationships with unbelievers just based on their unbelief or should you maintain close friendships as long as they are not pressing against your own faith?

Let me tell you about my friend Hoss (yes that is the name he went by). rugby player and good enough power lifter to get invited to the Goodwill Games.

He was also a lay minister. He 'evangelized' by simply being a friend. He took only the smallest of steps to let people know he was Christian. That is it. Well that and occasionally declining an invite for a Sunday event as he had Church commitments.

Funny thing that, his 'evangelism' was rather effective. It caused almost all non-believers to look at Christianity in a better light and caused many to at least take a closer look.

 

[Paulos23]

I am an Athiest. I married a Christian. We get along because we disided early on not to try to de/convert each other. We have also found we agree on many topics even though we are coming from two different sources.

What is funny is what turns me anti-thiest turns her off as well. She can't stand hypacrites in her religion, and fully supports seperation of church and state. So really, we have no reason to clash. Same with most of my christian friends. They don't try to convert me and I don't go on about the evils in religion. There is little reason to do so at the personal level when all it will do is make people mad.

 

[elephunky]

None of my friendships are based on whether their beliefs fit in with mine. I have christian friends, atheist friends, agnostic friends, pagan friends, wiccan friends...you name it.

 

[freedomissacred]

I think its a question of tolerance versus prudence. These days its all the vogue to be kind to people who are members of groups who do things to undermine you. Look into what Free Masonry does ie Scottish Rite and see if you want to get along with those who fund that type of thing. Maybe you are down with that.

Well, this touches part of the problem. How much do we need to know about our friends' activities that do not include us?

FWIW, I did ask my freemason friend once why he did not proceed further up the ranks and he said that at his level, he was free to be Christian and he did not want to sign on to whatever the upper ranks required, which he knew he did not support. So I went no further with my questions.

As far as needing to know the unseen activities (sins) of our friends and aquaintances, what about the hypocrites in our own congregations? Are we required to dive into the cesspools of gossip that result from such inquiries?

I can´t seem to understand this sentiment. For me, it´s a crucial criterium for a friendship that we are willing and able to confront each other with the differences in our beliefs, convictions and world-views.

I don't think confrontation is a necessary part of friendship. Rather, it seems to me friendship requires comfortable silence, or at least the possibility of it.
I do believe in praying for the conversion of sinners. I don't believe I have to tell them what I am doing.

 

[variant]

What do y'all think? Should you automatically end relationships with unbelievers just based on their unbelief or should you maintain close friendships as long as they are not pressing against your own faith?

Who do you think has more right than you do to pick your friends?

 

[keith99]

When I stop and think about it I realize there are lots of differences that would preclude a friendship.

Since this is a Christian site faith is brought front and center.

I have no common ground and no possible basis fro friendship with someone who thinks it is OK to abuse and perhaps kill 'the infidels' or to force conversion to their faith under threats of violence.

Note I said nothing about just what faith such might hold. Atheist that I now am I still from a background of Christianity and I still find this kind of attitude even a little bit more disgusting when wrapped in Christian clothing. Perhaps in part because I do know too many Christians that are good people by virtually any standard. (Save perhaps Klingon).

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

One's friendships should be with people, not with people's beliefs.

 

[grasping the after wind]

When I stop and think about it I realize there are lots of differences that would preclude a friendship.

Since this is a Christian site faith is brought front and center.

I have no common ground and no possible basis fro friendship with someone who thinks it is OK to abuse and perhaps kill 'the infidels' or to force conversion to their faith under threats of violence.

Note I said nothing about just what faith such might hold. Atheist that I now am I still from a background of Christianity and I still find this kind of attitude even a little bit more disgusting when wrapped in Christian clothing. Perhaps in part because I do know too many Christians that are good people by virtually any standard. (Save perhaps Klingon).

Christians are real human people . Klingons are not.

 

[grasping the after wind]

One's friendships should be with people, not with people's beliefs.

I agree.

 

[Eudaimonist]

One's friendships should be with people, not with people's beliefs.

The problem is...you can't really separate the two with any sharp line. People are to some extent what they believe, because what they believe influences what they value, and what they value influences how they act.

But many beliefs, however strange they might seem, don't lead to actions that make friendship difficult. I think that such beliefs may be overlooked.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[freedomissacred]

The problem is...you can't really separate the two with any sharp line. People are to some extent what they believe, because what they believe influences what they value, and what they value influences how they act.

But many beliefs, however strange they might seem, don't lead to actions that make friendship difficult. I think that such beliefs may be overlooked.


eudaimonia,

Mark

This is so true: there is no clear separation between any person and any belief.

I did not mean to imply in my original post that I believe in a totally open approach. For one thing, there is a wide range of type of level of friendship. I tend to allow a friendship to proceed up to a point and then, if necessary, place some limits. This can be a big problem since so many people nowadays think only in polarized terms of "friend/enemy" 100% one way or the other.

I think this polarization is a result of the idea that we should examine our friends' beliefs at the start. However, I also recognize that as a solitary adult I am free to take risks I would not take if I had children in my house.

We can't honestly be available to help anyone approach Christ if we can't take a chance on friendship with those who don't know or don't understand Christ. The most important questions such strangers have about Christ are not likely to be asked in a confrontational debate, but will come out at some quiet moment while playing cards or sharing a meal.

 

[quatona]

I don't think confrontation is a necessary part of friendship. Rather, it seems to me friendship requires comfortable silence, or at least the possibility of it.

Which means that you and I won´t have a worthwhile friendship.

I do believe in praying for the conversion of sinners. I don't believe I have to tell them what I am doing.

Nobody said you *had to* do anything.

 

[Archivist]

I have friends of all faiths and of little or no faith--Christians, Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, Hindus, agnostics, atheists. Their faith, or lack thereof, does not affect my ability to call them friend.

Back in January I was rushed to the hospital where I spent a week in ICU. I had contracted a virus that attacked my heart and I was down to less than 20% heart function. I posted a message on Facebook explaining my condition and asking all my friends to pray for me. They did, regardless of their faith and I believe that God heard every prayer that every one of them offered. One of my atheist friends later told me that while he doesn't believe in God, even he bowed his head and said something like "Creator of the Universe, if you do exist please heal my friend."

 

[Joykins]

The critics usually claim it is my duty to spend any time with these "infidels" attempting to evangelize them. They imply that I am sinning if I simply enjoy my friends' company and value their friendship.

What do y'all think? Should you automatically end relationships with unbelievers just based on their unbelief or should you maintain close friendships as long as they are not pressing against your own faith?

Enjoy your friendships. There is diversity among people for a reason...love and celebrate them. Obviously if they are terrible influences there is reason to leave. Anddiscussion of spiritual things in good faith and honesty can be enlightening, but friends who are treated as nothing but a mission field won't stick around long.

I don't know what is wrong about Masons, aren't they like the Stonecutters on the Simpsons?

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

The problem is...you can't really separate the two with any sharp line. People are to some extent what they believe, because what they believe influences what they value, and what they value influences how they act.

But many beliefs, however strange they might seem, don't lead to actions that make friendship difficult. I think that such beliefs may be overlooked...

People can be friends without knowing each others' "beliefs".

And if our beliefs are who we are then how does one explain people being wrong about others' beliefs? People have told me that they thought that I am an atheist. I have never been an atheist.

Beliefs come and go. Between the time that I saw it in a theater and a few days ago, I believed that The Last King of Scotland is a docudrama. But then I discovered that it contains fictional characters. I am the same person now as I was before making that discovery a few days ago. I think that we ought to relate to each other, not to what "beliefs" our minds happen to be hosting at the moment.