Friends with non-believers?

Athée

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Fair warning I am an atheist...but hopefully that won't come in to play in this discussion.
I have a Christian friend who is married to a Christian husband. Recently the husband has taken on a very very fundamental approach to the bible. There have been a host of issues stemming from this but the one I want to discuss today is that he will no longer go and visit her family with her because he thinks they are sinners. He now believes that unless you are actively ministering to unbelievers that you should not associate with them. Obviously this is source of stress in their marriage and I am wondering what the Christians on this forum would say in response? Specifically if there are good solid biblical reasons on either side of the question.

Thanks for your help :)
 
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paul1149

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In the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), Jesus tells us:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. -Matt 5:43-48
He says other things there also, such as turn the other cheek, walk the second mile, greet your enemies, do good to those who use you, and pray for those who persecute you. All these speak of the prevenient nature of God's love and grace - they go before, clearing a path. And we are the vessels of that love and grace.

There may be particular reasons not to spend time with certain people; perhaps they drag one down, or present too much temptation. But the overarching dynamic of the Gospel is "go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations." - Mt 28
 
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Julie.S

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Well I come from a rather as some would say liberal family. Anyway I think it's wrong to just shun people because they are not like you. I could never do it and I do have Atheist friends who also respect me being religious. We dont argue or debate we just have fun and get along.
 
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Athée

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In the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), Jesus tells us:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. -Matt 5:43-48
He says other things there also, such as turn the other cheek, walk the second mile, greet your enemies, do good to those who use you, and pray for those who persecute you. All these speak of the prevenient nature of God's love and grace - they go before, clearing a path. And we are the vessels of that love and grace.

There may be particular reasons not to spend time with certain people; perhaps they drag one down, or present too much temptation. But the overarching dynamic of the Gospel is "go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations." - Mt 28
Great post thanks. How do you square this with the verses about not being yoked with unbelievers? Not the marriage one...the other one :)
 
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Athée

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Well I come from a rather as some would say liberal family. Anyway I think it's wrong to just shun people because they are not like you. I could never do it and I do have Atheist friends who also respect me being religious. We dont argue or debate we just have fun and get along.
I'm with you on that :) Not helpful for my friend but hopefully they can get to a point of living peacefully together.
 
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paul1149

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Here's a list of "yoke" verses from the NT:

Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.’
Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
Let all who are under a yoke as bondservants regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled.
You can see the need for wisdom. The last verse implies that there are certain yokes in this world that need to be respected. Here, it's a contract of servitude. But it could be marital obligations toward relatives, obligations toward government, etc.

Paul gives some insight in 1Cor 5. He's talking about dealing with a brother in serious unrepented sin. He tells the church to disfellowship the man, and he goes on about their need to be separate from the world and to maintain purity. But then he goes on to give perspective, lest they fall into a carnal extremism:

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—
not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.” -1Cor 5:9-13​

We are not the judge of the world, God is. We don’t have to have an abnormal fear of normal intercourse with the world, so long as we maintain our purity before Christ. Our job is to keep ourselves pure, and to be a light; God will deal with the world.

It comes down to us being “in the world but not of it” (Jn 17, Jesus' "high priestly prayer"). There's real freedom in that. We can walk in the newness of life, untainted by the world’s filth, of which there is no lack.

But if some situation is a stumbling block to us, we need to deal with it or avoid it. And wisdom or the leading of the Lord might tell us to stay away from a given situation, sometimes we might not even know exactly why. But even in separation our motives will be right. “To the pure, all things are pure” - Titus 1.

I'm not judging your friend's situation, only giving some guidelines I would use to prove the will of the Lord in such a situation.
 
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I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
(1Co 5:9-12)

So if there is shunning to be done it would be to the unrepentant believers, not unbelievers.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I was just reading along, but one thought that struck me was is this person that refuses to associate with 'sinners' praying for them regularly and ferverently?

Because if he is just shunning them and not praying for them or trying to be of any help whatsoever, he is not doing God's will. Every saved person was once an unsaved sinner. Saved people are still sinners, just saved sinners.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
(1Co 5:9-12)

So if there is shunning to be done it would be to the unrepentant believers, not unbelievers.
This is a good one.
 
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ShaulHaTarsi

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I think this is probably up to personal preference more than anything. Is faith really the only thing dividing him from his in-laws? It hasn't been explained what kind of "sinners" they may actually be.

What is it that they do? are they guilty of sexual immorality? perhaps he doesn't actually feel comfortable doing that. Are they watching movies he disapproves of? There's a huge spectrum of things which someone can call Sin. There may be valid reasons for him wanting to hang out with them; there may not be. I certainly do thing he should be more direct about which "Sins" he is talking about, and feels the need to minister about.

If he truly wishes to minister he should keep in mind 1 Corinthians 9:20 - and that he may minister by witness. To be quite frank, being obstinate in wishing to associate with normal simple people is not ministry.
 
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I know that Jesus was the sweetest and most loving person who ever lived. I don't think he would shun sinners, since his goal was to evangelize the lost. If you are never around sinners, then how can you win them to Christ? Sending them tracts in the mail won't cut it.

As for me, I desire to help others through the hard times in their life. I volunteer myself as a shoulder to cry on. I think it's what God would want me to do, to heal the sick and the troubled. It sets a good example.
 
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zippy2006

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...he will no longer go and visit her family with her because he thinks they are sinners. He now believes that unless you are actively ministering to unbelievers that you should not associate with them...

This could be helpful:

1 Corinthians 7:13-14
If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband.​

In essence the purpose of holiness is to be a light and bridge unto others, not to hide yourself away under a bushel basket.
 
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ldonjohn

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Fair warning I am an atheist...but hopefully that won't come in to play in this discussion.
I have a Christian friend who is married to a Christian husband. Recently the husband has taken on a very very fundamental approach to the bible. There have been a host of issues stemming from this but the one I want to discuss today is that he will no longer go and visit her family with her because he thinks they are sinners. He now believes that unless you are actively ministering to unbelievers that you should not associate with them. Obviously this is source of stress in their marriage and I am wondering what the Christians on this forum would say in response? Specifically if there are good solid biblical reasons on either side of the question.

Thanks for your help :)

Real Christians are those who were willing to admit to God that they are sinners who needed a Savior to forgive their sin, and who accepted God's Way, the Gospel message, of saving all of mankind. Christians aren't perfect; just forgiven.

A Christian can minister to unbelievers simply by the way he treats them. He can associate with unbelieving family members and patiently wait for opportunities to share Christ with them without being a bible "thumper."

I thank God every day that He forgave my sin, my wicked heart, my evil thoughts, my selfishness, etc. and gave me His righteousness through Christ. It's a gift everyone should consider.

Don
 
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farout

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Fair warning I am an atheist...but hopefully that won't come in to play in this discussion.
I have a Christian friend who is married to a Christian husband. Recently the husband has taken on a very very fundamental approach to the bible. There have been a host of issues stemming from this but the one I want to discuss today is that he will no longer go and visit her family with her because he thinks they are sinners. He now believes that unless you are actively ministering to unbelievers that you should not associate with them. Obviously this is source of stress in their marriage and I am wondering what the Christians on this forum would say in response? Specifically if there are good solid biblical reasons on either side of the question.

Thanks for your help :)


I think this is a extremely poor understanding of Scriptures. Unless her family is into immorality, or some illegal activity. He just might find his wife leaving him or their marriage becoming like they are living separate lives. I call it unbiblical reaction by her husband. He is almost like in a cult.
 
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Athée

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I think this is a extremely poor understanding of Scriptures. Unless her family is into immorality, or some illegal activity. He just might find his wife leaving him or their marriage becoming like they are living separate lives. I call it unbiblical reaction by her husband. He is almost like in a cult.
Agreed but how do you break through to someone like that?
 
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Just_a_Joe

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Fair warning I am an atheist...but hopefully that won't come in to play in this discussion.
I have a Christian friend who is married to a Christian husband. Recently the husband has taken on a very very fundamental approach to the bible. There have been a host of issues stemming from this but the one I want to discuss today is that he will no longer go and visit her family with her because he thinks they are sinners. He now believes that unless you are actively ministering to unbelievers that you should not associate with them. Obviously this is source of stress in their marriage and I am wondering what the Christians on this forum would say in response? Specifically if there are good solid biblical reasons on either side of the question.

Thanks for your help :)

The husband needs to be brought back to senses. The sooner the better.
 
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