Friend Zone

[pittsflyer]

I never said I did not love them. So would you say that other cultures arranged marriages are cruel? And what is wrong with being "better than nothing girl" if he treats you well?

I realize that movie stars and top tier pedigried people dont have to deal with these sorts of things but I think this is probably more prevalent than you think it is.

You don't think marrying someone who you don't love but just think is better than no warm body is wrong? If someone asked me to marry him, I'd hope it was because he loved me and thought I was something special...not his "well, she is better than nothing" girl.

 

[pittsflyer]

Labido is directly proportional pickieness. If someone has few options and high enough labido then pretty soon the only thing they will filter on is what the other person is willing to do in bed and perhaps if they want kids or not.

Because it looks like more of us don't find that special someone that do at this age...probably because our tastes become more picky because we have a better idea of who we are and that translates into recognizing what we don't want a lot quicker.

 

[exitstageright]

Because it looks like more of us don't find that special someone that do at this age...probably because our tastes become more picky because we have a better idea of who we are and that translates into recognizing what we don't want a lot quicker.

Ok, I can accept that. You have a very plausible theory.

 

[blackribbon]

I never said I did not love them. So would you say that other cultures arranged marriages are cruel? And what is wrong with being "better than nothing girl" if he treats you well?

I realize that movie stars and top tier pedigried people dont have to deal with these sorts of things but I think this is probably more prevalent than you think it is.

I have a friend who is an arranged marriage at age 16. She thinks arranged marriages are cruel. She also expects her husband to love her. Which he does, but he isn't always kind to her. Her daughters will not be arranged marriages. She has said that much.

I don't think it requires a pedigree to marry for love. If you are not, then you better as heck tell the person you are marrying that she really aren't your first choice but you decided that she was good enough. If she show up to the wedding day, then she deserves what what she gets. Might as well work out your divorce settlement at that time too while you still like each other.

I do think it is more prevalent than it should be. And I think it is sad and cruel...especially when one partner actually thinks the other one loves them.

And you are not a dog...your libido doesn't control you. Personally, I have a very high libido but that hasn't lowered my standards one inch. I had a good marriage and as much as I miss it, I wouldn't marry again for anything less than what I had before.

 

[exitstageright]

I have a friend who is an arranged marriage at age 16. She thinks arranged marriages are cruel. She also expects her husband to love her. Which he does, but he isn't always kind to her. Her daughters will not be arranged marriages. She has said that much.

I don't think it requires a pedigree to marry for love. If you are not, then you better as heck tell the person you are marrying that she really aren't your first choice but you decided that she was good enough. If she show up to the wedding day, then she deserves what what she gets. Might as well work out your divorce settlement at that time too while you still like each other.

I do think it is more prevalent than it should be. And I think it is sad and cruel...especially when one partner actually thinks the other one loves them.

And you are not a dog...your libido doesn't control you. Personally, I have a very high libido but that hasn't lowered my standards one inch. I had a good marriage and as much as I miss it, I wouldn't marry again for anything less than what I had before.

I just cannot help it.This makes me think of this song.Here are part of the lyrics.

Why must I feel like that
Why must I chase the cat
Nothin' but the dog in me

Why must I feel like that
Why must I chase the cat
Nothin' but the dog in me

Bow-wow-yippie-yo-yippie-yeah
Bow-wow-wow-yippie-yo-yippie-yeah
Bow-wow-yippie-yo-yippie-yeah
Read more at George Clinton - Atomic Dog Lyrics

 

[pittsflyer]

At what age did you meet you husband, I am guessing he passed away? At a certian point it becomes clear that the women you want don't want you so how long do you wait 5 years 10 years where do you draw the line. I don't want to wait till I'm 40 to start having an active healthy sex life less I be cslled a "dog".

I have a friend who is an arranged marriage at age 16. She thinks arranged marriages are cruel. She also expects her husband to love her. Which he does, but he isn't always kind to her. Her daughters will not be arranged marriages. She has said that much.

I don't think it requires a pedigree to marry for love. If you are not, then you better as heck tell the person you are marrying that she really aren't your first choice but you decided that she was good enough. If she show up to the wedding day, then she deserves what what she gets. Might as well work out your divorce settlement at that time too while you still like each other.

I do think it is more prevalent than it should be. And I think it is sad and cruel...especially when one partner actually thinks the other one loves them.

And you are not a dog...your libido doesn't control you. Personally, I have a very high libido but that hasn't lowered my standards one inch. I had a good marriage and as much as I miss it, I wouldn't marry again for anything less than what I had before.

 

[blackribbon]

I met him when I was 19...I married him when I was 26. We weren't together that whole time but we were friends. He died when I was 43.

I don't know about you but I'd rather be alone for 100 years than with the wrong person for 5. Marriage is better if it isn't based on just the desire for sex. And sex is better if the marriage isn't just based on sex. It was hotter at 16 years than it was that first year and it was more frequent too.

 

[exitstageright]

Why do we believe we can make someone happy or love us, if they would just give us the chance? What if the woman on the far left felt the same way about you? Would you date her and give her the same chance you want the woman on the right to give you?

Why do we believe this? Well,once upon a time,there was a lady named Nancy Davis. She ignored the attention of a man named Ronald. The more he pursued her,the more she would resist him and run away.One day,she was tired of running,because Ronald was so persistent. Yes,you may have guessed it by now. The persistent man was .................... Ronald Reagan.

My point is that persistence can pay off.

Oh yeah,the woman on the far left told me that she was not interested in any man in our group.

 

[pittsflyer]

So you had half a life time or more of that expereince. Some people dont have that contrast and contrast in your own life experiences is a pretty big deal. If i was married to my gaurdian angel for 20 years into my 40's I would probably stay single after that too.

I met him when I was 19...I married him when I was 26. We weren't together that whole time but we were friends. He died when I was 43.

I don't know about you but I'd rather be alone for 100 years than with the wrong person for 5. Marriage is better if it isn't based on just the desire for sex. And sex is better if the marriage isn't just based on sex. It was hotter at 16 years than it was that first year and it was more frequent too.

 

[blackribbon]

I don't want to be single. I want what I had again and know that it is possible. I won't settle for less because from what I see that divorce does to people, being alone is the better option. It makes people hate and wonder about their own value....and lose trust in people and love.

To me, marrying "good enough" means nothing really will be good enough because you know what you really wanted was more. You will doubt your decision and it will make it easy to leave if things get messy. I want someone who no matter how big the fight or disagreement is, that the thing you worry most about is being apart.

We did have one issue in our marriage early on that I decided I could no longer live with. It was a habit he promised to stop before I married him. I unwisely married him on the promise of him stopping instead of making him prove it first. So I didn't feel I had the right to "make" him quit since I married him that way. On the flip side, I couldn't live with it anymore. I wrote him a long letter and tucked it in his things when he was going out of town and would have time to think about it without my presence....in it I addressed this habit and how I felt and let him know that I would move out in certain time frame if things didn't improve....but I'd never divorce him because I couldn't imagine being married to anyone but him. (and I couldn't) He came home ... he only said, "I read your letter" ... and things improved immediately. But not because I nagged, but rather because he couldn't imagine life without me either. No matter how bad the situation was, we wanted to be together.

I know this isn't common but it is possible for everyone. It requires waiting to marry the right one...not the convenient one. The right one isn't based on looks or financial standings but rather the person who looks in your eyes and touches your soul....loves the "real you", warts and all.... I want to be Rachel and not Leah every time. Jacob was good to Leah....but I doubt that any girl hopes to be her.

 

[pittsflyer]

But Jacob (I think it was Jacob) was gaga for Rachel BECAUSE of her looks and youth. Not every woman has that, not every woman can be Rachael. Just like not every guy is king David. Some guys are vinyard worker #4 and some women are laundry doers #7, its no shame if vinyard worker #4 and laundry doer #7 get together and maximize their station in life.

I dont know what the circumstances were for the 2 of you after you met when you were 16 but if I had a woman that loved me and slept with me at 16 and on I would have been excited and maintained a long distance relationship while at school, etc. Life is very different for people at that age and the longer life goes on those small differences in high school turn into huge rifts in life styles and life views later down the road.

All those different life experiences either break down or build up your self esteme and determine the kind of compromises you have to deal with. You have already had a wonderful expereince and for you I assume even if you never met another man like your husband you got to have that for 30+ years. What about the woman (or man) that wants their rachael and 2 years turns into 5 turns into 10 ..... some people are forced to make a call that they need to settle or be ok with the prime of their lives going by without even having some kind of romantic experience to enjoy. I know that was not your life but it is alot of peoples lives.

Everyone has to draw the line in the sand for themselves. Thats why we tell people at 16 that its no big deal you have plenty of time. But then 22 rolls around and as a guy if I cant get a girl friend (or romantic partner) to save my life then you have to decide how much of your prime do you want to pee away. Then 24 rolls around and so on, where does it end .....

I don't want to be single. I want what I had again and know that it is possible. I won't settle for less because from what I see that divorce does to people, being alone is the better option. It makes people hate and wonder about their own value....and lose trust in people and love.

To me, marrying "good enough" means nothing really will be good enough because you know what you really wanted was more. You will doubt your decision and it will make it easy to leave if things get messy. I want someone who no matter how big the fight or disagreement is, that the thing you worry most about is being apart.

We did have one issue in our marriage early on that I decided I could no longer live with. It was a habit he promised to stop before I married him. I unwisely married him on the promise of him stopping instead of making him prove it first. So I didn't feel I had the right to "make" him quit since I married him that way. On the flip side, I couldn't live with it anymore. I wrote him a long letter and tucked it in his things when he was going out of town and would have time to think about it without my presence....in it I addressed this habit and how I felt and let him know that I would move out in certain time frame if things didn't improve....but I'd never divorce him because I couldn't imagine being married to anyone but him. (and I couldn't) He came home ... he only said, "I read your letter" ... and things improved immediately. But not because I nagged, but rather because he couldn't imagine life without me either. No matter how bad the situation was, we wanted to be together.

I know this isn't common but it is possible for everyone. It requires waiting to marry the right one...not the convenient one. The right one isn't based on looks or financial standings but rather the person who looks in your eyes and touches your soul....loves the "real you", warts and all.... I want to be Rachel and not Leah every time. Jacob was good to Leah....but I doubt that any girl hopes to be her.

 

[Messy]

I don't want to be single. I want what I had again and know that it is possible. I won't settle for less because from what I see that divorce does to people, being alone is the better option. It makes people hate and wonder about their own value....and lose trust in people and love.

To me, marrying "good enough" means nothing really will be good enough because you know what you really wanted was more. You will doubt your decision and it will make it easy to leave if things get messy. I want someone who no matter how big the fight or disagreement is, that the thing you worry most about is being apart.

We did have one issue in our marriage early on that I decided I could no longer live with. It was a habit he promised to stop before I married him. I unwisely married him on the promise of him stopping instead of making him prove it first. So I didn't feel I had the right to "make" him quit since I married him that way. On the flip side, I couldn't live with it anymore. I wrote him a long letter and tucked it in his things when he was going out of town and would have time to think about it without my presence....in it I addressed this habit and how I felt and let him know that I would move out in certain time frame if things didn't improve....but I'd never divorce him because I couldn't imagine being married to anyone but him. (and I couldn't) He came home ... he only said, "I read your letter" ... and things improved immediately. But not because I nagged, but rather because he couldn't imagine life without me either. No matter how bad the situation was, we wanted to be together.

I know this isn't common but it is possible for everyone. It requires waiting to marry the right one...not the convenient one. The right one isn't based on looks or financial standings but rather the person who looks in your eyes and touches your soul....loves the "real you", warts and all.... I want to be Rachel and not Leah every time. Jacob was good to Leah....but I doubt that any girl hopes to be her.

I married the right one, the one God had for me and told me to marry. It's not a guarantee for a life long great marriage. That's not what life is about. He made me better and I made him better. Iron sharpens Iron and we have cute kids. If we had had help it could have worked out but it doesn't matter. Mr. Right is Jesus. All other men can never be that perfect.

 

[pittsflyer]

I have heard of this phenomena, everything was great ........ until we had kids. Yet women keep pushing for them even if it makes no sense (ie improper finances, inadaqute built in family day care, too small of a house/appartment, etc). If women feel that clock ticking nothing else matters but poping out some kids. Not all women of course but its not an insignificant number at least in the USA. The reason the birth rate is sinking for the caucasion segment of the US population is because men are pushing back, men know they are going to be the ones to pay and they know its easy for women to change beds so what is in it for them (unless they are part of the tiny segment of male baby fever but even then when mom changes beds she can also keep him from the kids but still make him pay).

I have heard that other nations in Europe have a negitive birth rate but I dont know if thats because people are having non stop sex with proper birth control or if women are just not interested.

What ever happened in our society that made it easy for women to change beds seems to be the key. I dont know if it was as easy as it is today in the 40's for a woman to just dump her man and find another man in a few weeks. As I write and think about it I would say that is more of a key issue than any family law courts or civil rights movement.

I married the right one, the one God had for me and told me to marry. It's not a guarantee for a life long great marriage. That's not what life is about. He made me better and I made him better. Iron sharpens Iron and we have cute kids. If we had had help it could have worked out but it doesn't matter. Mr. Right is Jesus. All other men can never be that perfect.

 

[Messy]

Years ago they had no choice. Most here have two kids and almost everyone is on birth control. The best marriages I see is if they have similar ideas of raising them and both really like doing things with their kids instead of let mom do everything. Or just don't take them if you just want to do what you want to do. I adviced a collegue to take not more than one because they had to go on a holiday 5 times a year.

 

[blackribbon]

But Jacob (I think it was Jacob) was gaga for Rachel BECAUSE of her looks and youth. Not every woman has that, not every woman can be Rachael. Just like not every guy is king David. Some guys are vinyard worker #4 and some women are laundry doers #7, its no shame if vinyard worker #4 and laundry doer #7 get together and maximize their station in life.

I dont know what the circumstances were for the 2 of you after you met when you were 16 but if I had a woman that loved me and slept with me at 16 and on I would have been excited and maintained a long distance relationship while at school, etc. Life is very different for people at that age and the longer life goes on those small differences in high school turn into huge rifts in life styles and life views later down the road.

All those different life experiences either break down or build up your self esteme and determine the kind of compromises you have to deal with. You have already had a wonderful expereince and for you I assume even if you never met another man like your husband you got to have that for 30+ years. What about the woman (or man) that wants their rachael and 2 years turns into 5 turns into 10 ..... some people are forced to make a call that they need to settle or be ok with the prime of their lives going by without even having some kind of romantic experience to enjoy. I know that was not your life but it is alot of peoples lives.

Everyone has to draw the line in the sand for themselves. Thats why we tell people at 16 that its no big deal you have plenty of time. But then 22 rolls around and as a guy if I cant get a girl friend (or romantic partner) to save my life then you have to decide how much of your prime do you want to pee away. Then 24 rolls around and so on, where does it end .....

I met my husband when I was 19 and he was 18. I wasn't the least bit interested in him because he was almost two years younger than me. We actually became friends over him trying to date my roommate and me trying to date one of his ROTC buddies. We spent time together that was completely not sexual...and I didn't have sex with him until I married him 8 years later.

Who says Rachel was beautiful? She was beautiful to Jacob...but there are plenty of plain jane women out there whose husbands actually think they are beautiful. You can see it in their eyes when they look at their wives. I am not a great beauty. In my youth, at best I could have been considered "cute" but I really never was at a shortage for men who wanted to marry me...but our visions didn't match and I walked away because of that. One man who tried to get me to marry him for almost 10 years wrote me a letter about a year after he eventually got married and said he finally understood what I was trying to tell him about not marrying him because we didn't want the same things (at the time he thought he was willing to change everything about himself for me but I knew he wouldn't be happy for long if he did). He is still married and happy, and we are still friends on a very appropriately distant level.

 

[pittsflyer]

Oh no I completely agree but then when you get out in the dating world the situation becomes completely antagonistic. If you state you dont want kids your odds of finding someone gets MUCH harder. Luckily men in their mid 20s to mid 30s are standing their ground but so are women and you can see the women that hit 30 without a kid start getting crazy because guys wont touch them. They start getting wild eyes (seen it for myself on my buddys dating profile) and get really desperate and not desperate for a man (I think that is sexy) but desperate to pop out a kid, its like just go to a sprem bank if they want one that bad. Oh and if you start talking about what they like in bed they disappear, because of course sexual compatibility is not important just poping out the kids.

Again like I told black ribbon this would not be such an issue if it were not SO prevelent.

Then after I filter the women on sex and kids there are like 3 women left but im the butt hole lol. This is why guys lie to get laid ladies.

Years ago they had no choice. Most here have two kids and almost everyone is on birth control. The best marriages I see is if they have similar ideas of raising them and both really like doing things with their kids instead of let mom do everything. Or just don't take them if you just want to do what you want to do. I adviced a collegue to take not more than one because they had to go on a holiday 5 times a year.

 

[blackribbon]

I have heard of this phenomena, everything was great ........ until we had kids. Yet women keep pushing for them even if it makes no sense (ie improper finances, inadaqute built in family day care, too small of a house/appartment, etc). If women feel that clock ticking nothing else matters but poping out some kids. Not all women of course but its not an insignificant number at least in the USA. The reason the birth rate is sinking for the caucasion segment of the US population is because men are pushing back, men know they are going to be the ones to pay and they know its easy for women to change beds so what is in it for them (unless they are part of the tiny segment of male baby fever but even then when mom changes beds she can also keep him from the kids but still make him pay).

I have heard that other nations in Europe have a negitive birth rate but I dont know if thats because people are having non stop sex with proper birth control or if women are just not interested.

What ever happened in our society that made it easy for women to change beds seems to be the key. I dont know if it was as easy as it is today in the 40's for a woman to just dump her man and find another man in a few weeks. As I write and think about it I would say that is more of a key issue than any family law courts or civil rights movement.

Funny...I know many men who wanted children right off the bat. I had to tell my husband to wait because I wanted him to finish college first and I knew he wouldn't stay in school if I got pregnant. (He left school and joined the Navy...and then I encouraged him to go back and finish what he started after we got married.) Most of the big families I know belonged to men who loved to show them off...because they were proud of their kids and wanted every single one of them. I also know several families where it is the man that took custody of the kids at the end of the marriage because he wanted them more. So don't lump all men together in the kids are a burden category.

 

[blackribbon]

You know what...my minimal experience with online dating (very minimal and never dated anyone) is that the women are shopping for a husband and the men are shopping for sex...and both will say whatever they need to to attract someone. I am not sure if it is deliberate or if people really think that those things about themselves are true. I'd be curious to see how many really do marry and how many of those marriages are still valid (and good) 5 years later. You have already stated you realize that they aren't a place of great truth so why would you consider that a valid way to look for a spouse?

 

[Messy]

You know what...my minimal experience with online dating (very minimal and never dated anyone) is that the women are shopping for a husband and the men are shopping for sex...and both will say whatever they need to to attract someone. I am not sure if it is deliberate or if people really think that those things about themselves are true. I'd be curious to see how many really do marry and how many of those marriages are still valid (and good) 5 years later. You have already stated you realize that they aren't a place of great truth so why would you consider that a valid way to look for a spouse?

Most of them but some found a great spouses there. You have to be very patient for it I think.

 

[pittsflyer]

Yea, we have such different life experences I dont think you could even understand what I am talking about. Also if you have men tripping over themselves to be with you, you were a solid cutie, maybe not helen of troy but you had to be a very solid 7 or 8 otherwise men would not do that I GAURENTEE.

I have met women like you before and your life outlook is from that of a gate keeper not the one trying to cross over. Its like the boarder agent being upset he does not have a faster helicopter vs the guy in the river trying to swim across who has a very strong chance of not making it.

I met my husband when I was 19 and he was 18. I wasn't the least bit interested in him because he was almost two years younger than me. We actually became friends over him trying to date my roommate and me trying to date one of his ROTC buddies. We spent time together that was completely not sexual...and I didn't have sex with him until I married him 8 years later.

Who says Rachel was beautiful? She was beautiful to Jacob...but there are plenty of plain jane women out there whose husbands actually think they are beautiful. You can see it in their eyes when they look at their wives. I am not a great beauty. In my youth, at best I could have been considered "cute" but I really never was at a shortage for men who wanted to marry me...but our visions didn't match and I walked away because of that. One man who tried to get me to marry him for almost 10 years wrote me a letter about a year after he eventually got married and said he finally understood what I was trying to tell him about not marrying him because we didn't want the same things (at the time he thought he was willing to change everything about himself for me but I knew he wouldn't be happy for long if he did). He is still married and happy, and we are still friends on a very appropriately distant level.