Friedrich Nietzsche

[angela 2]

"Why do you not like me?
Because I am not as good as you.
A phrase never uttered by a human being." I really like this one. We would never admit that we disliked someone because we feel inferior to them...even if we believed it to be true. It's not in our nature to believe that we are somehow less than others. This plays into the previous quote as well. It's all very esoteric.

My guess, from what I know of N's work, is different. What he is saying is that most people are inferior to the Aryan Supermen but won't admit it.

 

[angela 2]

Nietzsche hated German nationalism and anti-semiticism. 'All anti-semites should be shot,' was a comment he made in one of his letters:

Yeah, right. He writes things like that and then goes on to write some of the most anti semitic stuff I've ever read.

remember that from his perspective anti-semiticism arose out of Christianity.

Yeah, and he loathed Jew and Chrsitians equally.

There is also the fact that he hated herd mentalities - 'the rabble' as he termed it. Nationalism was such a mentality.

And who are "the rabble?" Anyone who is not Aryan. You may be right that he wasn't interested in "blood and country." Maybe it was just "blood." Is that any better?

it is hardly their fault if their message gets twisted by fools and scoundrels.

But he is at fault because his message wasn't twisted; it was just elaborated and expanded by others. The vicious hated of any who were not of his kind is all there in his work.

Having said all that let me say that I love N's The Birth of Tragedy. One can find a quite tenable theory of art in it.

 

[U R my Sonshine]

This particular forum is for Philosophy* and Morality, and I don't see a whole* lot of philosophy in here I just thought I'd see how it goes over to talk about one of my favorite philosophers...Friedrich Nietzsche.. Does anyone here know much about him? If so...do you agree with him on anything? Do you completely disagree with him on anything? He was a great thinker...and a many of his works are utterly amazing.

Please share your thoughts.

Talk l8r.
Bless.

BTW...if you haven't heard of him, I'd suggest looking him up...he's awesome

Been there done that. Lost my facination with him after I turned 20. I thought he was really cool when I was on my Baudelaire/Rimbaud/Jim Morrison kick. They are all just way too "look at my tortured soul...whoooaaa is meeeee...I am so dark and creative" for me to waste time with anymore. I guess I just grew up and moved on with "real life"

 

[maha]

My guess, from what I know of N's work, is different. What he is saying is that most people are inferior to the Aryan Supermen but won't admit it.

Keeping in mind that Nietzche lived in a different century than Hitler and his Aryan ubermenschen. Just because he was German doesn't mean he was a Nazi.

 

[angela 2]

Keeping in mind that Nietzche lived in a different century than Hitler and his Aryan ubermenschen. Just because he was German doesn't mean he was a Nazi.

Didn't say he was a Nazi. Just said all the raw material was there. After all, he popularized the term Das Übermensch.

 

[AudioArtist]

I am studying his works at the moment, and it is damaging my faith. More because of the fact that so many people seem to take him very seriously and are convinced by his theories, and because of a complete lack of refutations of his works, than the actual material itself (which, had I read on its own, would have been a lot less damaging.)

I want to see this thread expand a bit with more Christian/non-Nietzche loving folk. All I ever hear is that he's a misunderstood genius!

 

[U R my Sonshine]

I am studying his works at the moment, and it is damaging my faith. More because of the fact that so many people seem to take him very seriously and are convinced by his theories, and because of a complete lack of refutations of his works, than the actual material itself (which, had I read on its own, would have been a lot less damaging.)

I want to see this thread expand a bit with more Christian/non-Nietzche loving folk. All I ever hear is that he's a misunderstood genius!

It is refreshing to hear someone your age that feels this way. I think you'll find that for the most part, he gets a following of confused teen-angst types that are still "finding themselves"

 

[nadroj1985]

Yeah, right. He writes things like that and then goes on to write some of the most anti semitic stuff I've ever read.

It'd be nice if you'd quote this stuff for us.

Yeah, and he loathed Jew and Chrsitians equally.

Read Beyond Good and Evil, sections 250-251. Please.

And who are "the rabble?" Anyone who is not Aryan.

Have you read Nietzsche, beyond random quotes here and there? If you read his books, I think you would realize you misunderstand him.

 

[AudioArtist]

I found his ideas very similar to LaVey's Satanism. I only found out afterwards that he inspired the Satanic Bible.

I'll admit, he had guts and wrote well. But I find his ideas depressing, hopeless, and inhumane in many respects. I also don't understand his hatred of Christianity, but relative indifference or a positive attitude towards other religions, particularly his views of the Old Testament verses the New Testament.

 

[angela 2]

It'd be nice if you'd quote this stuff for us.



Read Beyond Good and Evil, sections 250-251. Please.



Have you read Nietzsche, beyond random quotes here and there? If you read his books, I think you would realize you misunderstand him.

Yes, I have read his books. Let me consult them and I'll get back to you.

 

[Osiris]

If you find anything wrong with Nietzsche you are most definitely misinterpreting him.
What differentiates Nietzsche from Nihilism is that he does provide hope, and he mentions that the only hope is within you, not what society offers. But he also says that, not everyone can achieve this happiness (hope), because everyone is too busy with other people's values(religion,politics,etc.), it makes it hard to find their own values. But those who do find happiness (the supermen), won't be able to share it with everyone; because the rest won't believe them(they see reality different) and also because it wouldn't be the same as if they found that hope for themselves.

That is what Nietzsche meant by Over Men, it has nothing to do with Nazis; Nietzsche would not have approved of Nazism.

 

[David Gould]

Yeah, right. He writes things like that and then goes on to write some of the most anti semitic stuff I've ever read.

He did? Where?

Yeah, and he loathed Jew and Chrsitians equally.

And who are "the rabble?" Anyone who is not Aryan. You may be right that he wasn't interested in "blood and country." Maybe it was just "blood." Is that any better?

His work had absolutely nothing to do with Aryan. The ubermensch was nothing to do with a master race.

But he is at fault because his message wasn't twisted; it was just elaborated and expanded by others. The vicious hated of any who were not of his kind is all there in his work.

Sigh. You are just wrong here.

 

[David Gould]

Didn't say he was a Nazi. Just said all the raw material was there. After all, he popularized the term Das Übermensch.

What he meant by the term had nothing to do with the way the Nazis used it ...

 

[David Gould]

I found his ideas very similar to LaVey's Satanism. I only found out afterwards that he inspired the Satanic Bible.

I'll admit, he had guts and wrote well. But I find his ideas depressing, hopeless, and inhumane in many respects. I also don't understand his hatred of Christianity, but relative indifference or a positive attitude towards other religions, particularly his views of the Old Testament verses the New Testament.

You have to remember that he was writing from within a Christian culture. He looked around him and disliked what he saw, and thus wrote about it.

 

[Milla]

At the risk of making an egotistical sweeping statement, I find Nietzsche's writings to be internally consistent, but simply not a basis on which I choose to live my life.

I find it slighly ironic that I've rejected Nietzsche on the rather Nietzscheian basis that I do not believe that I would be empowered by following his principals.

 

[large fry please.]

Nietzschean philosophy is simply awesome and honest. I would suggest reading "Twilight of the Idols", "The Gay Science", "Beyond Good and Evil", etc. Nietzsche declared war on nearly evey concept and every type of person. Which is so invigorating. Not just with the petty hypocrisy of Christianity but with science, philosophy, art, even himself. I think time will tell of the true significance of his work, he is already considered one of the most influential thinkers in history. If anyone would be so mis-informed to actually suggest Nietzsche was an advocate of Nazisim, just read him! Here is just one small example: a letter he wrote to his racist sister.

"You have committed one of the greatest stupidities—for yourself and for me! Your association with an anti-Semitic chief expresses a foreignness to my whole way of life which fills me again and again with ire or melancholy. [...] It is a matter of honor with me to be absolutely clean and unequivocal in relation to anti-Semitism, namely, opposed to it, as I am in my writings. I have recently been persecuted with letters and Anti-Semitic Correspondence Sheets. My disgust with this party (which would like the benefit of my name only too well!) is as pronounced as possible, but the relation to Förster, as well as the aftereffects of my former publisher, the anti-Semitic Schmeitzner, always brings the adherents of this disagreeable party back to the idea that I must belong to them after all. [...] It arouses mistrust against my character, as if publicly I condemned something which I have favored secretly—and that I am unable to do anything against it, that the name of Zarathustra is used in every Anti-Semitic Correspondence Sheet, has almost made me sick several times."

from at least an artistic point of view: how about this?

At times we need a rest from ourselves by looking upon, by looking down upon ourselves and, from an artistic distance, laughing over ourselves or weeping over ourselves; we must discover the hero no less than the fool in our passion for knowledge, we must occasionally find pleasure in our folly, or we cannot continue to find pleasure in our wisdom! Precisely because we are at bottom grave and serious human beings—really more weights than human beings—nothing does us as much good as a fool's cap: we need it in relation to ourselves—we need all exuberant, floating, dancing, mocking, childish, and blissful art lest we lose the freedom above things that our ideal demands of us. It would mean a relapse for us, with our irritable honesty, to get involved entirely in morality and, for the sake of the over-severe demands we make on ourselves in these matters, to become virtuous monsters and scarecrows. We should be able also to stand above morality—and not only to stand with the anxious stiffness of a man who is afraid of slipping and falling at any moment, but also to float above it and play! How then could we possibly dispense with art, and with the fool?— And as long as you are in any way ashamed before yourselves, you do not yet belong with us! Nietzsche's "The Gay Science"