Friedrich Nietzsche..

[Sipes13]

I've noticed nobody has started a thread about Friedrich Nietzsche, I always thought he was an interesting philiosopher. Here is a quote by him maybe it will help start a discussion.

A certain sense of cruelty towards oneself and others is Christian; hatred of those who think differently; the will to persecute. Hatred of mind, of pride, courage, freedom, libertinage of mind, is Christian; hatred of the sense, of the joy of the senses, of joy in general is Christian.

 

[Clem is Me]

That's Freddie alright.

 

[SarcasmDispenser]

I'd say you could put "humanity" in there and it'd work the same way. Seems interesting enough though.

 

[Sipes13]

Has anyone read any books by him?? I've read "Beyond good and evil", "The birth of tragedy" and "The will to power". Friedrich is interesting but i like The dali lama more.

 

[Dimithriceas]

I've read most of his works. I find him to be interesting with some good insight into human nature.

 

[Bellyjean]

Ive read Beyond good and evil, But i think Nietzsche is vey hard to get into, he was a bit of an eccentric/genius and you really have to be on his level to read his stuff.... Bring me Jean Paul Sartre any day............

 

[Sipes13]

Jean Paul Sartre?? Never heard of him, I'll have to look next time im at the book store

 

[SpaceProg]

Sartre was the one that said "Hell is being trapped for eternity in a room with your friends".

Neitzsche (or "Neechie" when I'm being lazy) depresses me. Well... more than I already am. Hehe.

 

[ssms27]

We just finished Neitzsche in my Issues in Philosophy class. We read, Twilight to the Idols. Does he have any positive answers to the questions of philosophy or does he simply tear down other Philosophers answers and end with Nihilism?

I agree that you could insert "humanity" into Neitzsche's above quote. I could see why he would specifically point at Christians but I think humanity is a more honest answer.

Steven

 

[Eudaimonist]

A certain sense of cruelty towards oneself and others is Christian; hatred of those who think differently; the will to persecute. Hatred of mind, of pride, courage, freedom, libertinage of mind, is Christian; hatred of the sense, of the joy of the senses, of joy in general is Christian.

While I don't agree with him on everything, Nietzsche certainly had some pearls of wisdom to offer.

 

[Anjinsan]

Actually, Nietzche is pretty anti-nihilism. The eternal recurrance he mentions states to embrace the suffering, absurdity, and worthlessness of the universe over and over again.

 

[ssms27]

Actually, Nietzche is pretty anti-nihilism. The eternal recurrance he mentions states to embrace the suffering, absurdity, and worthlessness of the universe over and over again.

Is embrace nihilism the same thing as being anti-nihilism? It sounds more like pro-nihilism.

Steve

 

[white dove]

I read Twilight of the Idols & bits of the Anti-Christ. I've said it before & I'll say it again, I like Nietzche..he had some very true statements about the 'christian' church of that time. But, he almost misses the concept of true Christianity, entirely. Instead, he supposes that the world of psuedo-quasi 'christians' (those who revere a *religion* more than an actual relationship with God~i.e. being more Christ-like in heart & attitude) speaks for the rest of the Christians out there who do strive to be more Christ-like. Word is, he actually liked Jesus..but saw Him as nothing more than a man who lived as decent a life as he could have. Like I said, some of what N. said contained some truth in there..but his message is ultimately, overshadowed by his outright anger & hostility toward Christians, in general. I know he'd been going through some personal issues in his life (um, but who doesn't??), but when someone is attempting to 'enlighten' those around him, it'd be best if he didn't try to de-value everyone else who has a differing opinion by using crass statements & cruel words to describe them and verbally knock down their whole belief system.

 

[large fry please.]

I read Twilight of the Idols & bits of the Anti-Christ. I've said it before & I'll say it again, I like Nietzche..he had some very true statements about the 'christian' church of that time. But, he almost misses the concept of true Christianity, entirely. Instead, he supposes that the world of psuedo-quasi 'christians' (those who revere a *religion* more than an actual relationship with God~i.e. being more Christ-like in heart & attitude) speaks for the rest of the Christians out there who do strive to be more Christ-like. Word is, he actually liked Jesus..but saw Him as nothing more than a man who lived as decent a life as he could have. Like I said, some of what N. said contained some truth in there..but his message is ultimately, overshadowed by his outright anger & hostility toward Christians, in general. I know he'd been going through some personal issues in his life (um, but who doesn't??), but when someone is attempting to 'enlighten' those around him, it'd be best if he didn't try to de-value everyone else who has a differing opinion by using crass statements & cruel words to describe them and verbally knock down their whole belief system.

No, he doesn't miss the concept at all. Nietzsche was "almost" third generation Lutheran minister. He majored in theology. He suddenly changed and considerd himself to be an Atheist. He became Dr. Friedrick Nietzsche at the age of 24 and became Dean at age 30. A man barely into his mid twenty's was teaching the history of Greek literature,and pre-Platonic philosophy. Greek and Roman rhetoric, ancient Greek religion, Plato's life and teaching's, Aeschylus's Liberation Bearer's, Sophocles' Oedipus the King, and Hesiod's Works and Days. Plato's Apology, Phaedo, Phaedrus, Symposium, Republic,and Protagoras: and selected books of Homers' Illiad; among others.

It is true that Nietzsche considered Jesus Christ and example of a "supreme human" and his hatred using your words, blossoms from the founding church fathers and St. Paul. Also the followers of these people; other humans. He did not de-value anyone. He was one of the first to recognize that Christian ethics or marality is the engriedient that devalues life altogether. That was his brilliance. His "God is Dead" declaration was and still is for some people a declaration par-excellence. Christianity made everything of our natural world into a sin! I think that because of Nietzsche and others, they paved the way for the enlightened ones, such as liberal Christians.


When one places life’s center of gravity not in life but in the “beyond”—in nothingness—,one deprives life of its center of gravity altogether. The great lie of personal immortality destroys all reason, everything natural in the instincts—whatever in the instincts is beneficent and life-promoting or guarantees a future now arouses mistrust. To live so that there is no longer any sense in living, that now becomes the “sense” of life ... Why communal sense, why any further gratitude for descent and ancestors, why cooperate or trust; why envisage and promote any common welfare? ... Just so many “temptations,” just so many distractions from the “right path”—“one thing is needful” ... That everyone as an “immortal soul” has equal rank with everyone else, that in the totality of living beings the “salvation” of every single individual may claim eternal significance, that little prigs and three-quarter madmen may have the conceit that the laws of nature are constantly broken for their sakes—such an intensification of every kind of selfishness into the infinite, into the impertinent, cannot be branded with too much contempt. And yet Christianity owes its triumph to this miserable flattery of personal vanity—it was precisely all the failures, all the rebellious-minded, all the less favored, the whole scum and refuse of humanity who were thus won over to it. The “salvation of the soul”—in plain language: “the world revolves around me” ... The poison of the doctrine of “equal rights for all”—it was Christianity that spread it most fundamentally. Out of the most secret nooks of bad instincts, Christianity has waged war unto death against all sense of respect and feeling of distance between man and man, that is to say, against the presupposition of every elevation, of every growth of culture—out of the ressentiment of the masses it forged its chief weapon against us, against all that is noble, gay, high-minded on earth, against our happiness on earth ... “Immortality” conceded to every Peter and Paul has so far been the greatest, the most malignant, attempt to assassinate noble humanity.— And let us not underestimate the calamity which crept out of Christianity into politics! Today nobody has the courage any longer for privileges, for masters’ rights, for a sense of respect for oneself and one’s peers—for a pathos of distance ... Our politics is sick from this lack of courage!— The aristocratic outlook was undermined from the deepest underworld through the lie of the equality of souls; and if faith in the “prerogative of the majority” makes and will make revolutions, it is Christianity, beyond a doubt, it is Christian value judgments, that every revolution simply translates into blood and crime! Christianity is a rebellion of everything that crawls on the ground against that which has height: the evangel of the “lowly” makes low . Nietzsche's the anti christ