Freemasons and the end times

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Sabbathiel

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Is Freemasonry involved in politics?

Freemasonry is definitely not a political organisation, it has no political agenda, and discussion of politics is not permitted at lodge meetings.

Freemasonry naturally tends to attract those with a concern for people and a sense of social responsibility and purpose. There are members, therefore, who are involved in politics at local, national and international level. Equally there are members who take an active interest in non-Masonic charitable organisations and other community groups.

Irregular and Unrecognised Grand Lodges

There are some self-styled Masonic bodies that do not meet these standards, e.g. which do not require a belief in a Supreme Being, or which allow or encourage their members to participate as such in political matters. These bodies are recognised by the Grand Lodge of England as being Masonically irregular, and Masonic contact with them is forbidden.
 
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Sabbathiel

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Why do people join and remain members

People become Freemasons for a variety of reasons, some as the result of family tradition, others upon the introduction of a friend or out of a curiosity to know what it is all about.

Those who become active members and who grow in Freemasonry do so principally because they enjoy it. They enjoy the challenges and fellowship that Freemasonry offers. There is more to it, however, than just enjoyment.

Participation in the dramatic presentation of moral lessons and in the working of a lodge provides a member with a unique opportunity to learn more about himself and encourages him to live in such a way that he will always be in search of becoming a better man, not better than someone else but better than he himself would otherwise be and therefore an exemplary member of society.

Each Freemason is required to learn and show humility through initiation. Then, by progression through a series of degrees he gains insight into increasingly complex moral and philosophical concepts, and accepts a variety of challenges and responsibilities which are both stimulating and rewarding. The structure and working of the lodge and the sequence of ceremonial events, which are usually followed by social gatherings, offer members a framework for companionship, teamwork, character development and enjoyment of shared experiences.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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This is good... Christians aren't shouting, just individuals that need something to do, someone to point fingers at, and or someone to see as inferior and more of a sinner in hopes that God does not see their own sins...

And what are Freemasons suppose to shout? "You're right, we are evil! Guilty as charged, judge..." No...They are going to say "Prove it!" In America, it's innocent until proven guilty.

You accuse us of a crime, we say prove it. We welcome you to perform the investigation, we beg you.

It's the year 2008, not the 1300's when de'Molay and the Templars where persecuted, tortured, and inhumanely forced into confessions against the church and Christianity. They couldn't prove their innocents, too bsuy being tortured to death. Well today, they can...and we have.

So, prove it with facts, not bias, theories, or opinions...It will do a world of good if someone would get up and study for themselves and see for themselves besides just shouting, like in the old witch trials centuries ago, "Witch!" Like I said, those days are over... Christians can read and far more educated. It's time to start usingthat brain God gave us instead of letting someone else do the thinking...

THIS is exactly what I'm talking about.

Freemasons say, "there is no evidence of this or that" but no denials.

Here are the facts as I've found them:

Freemasons study "sacred geometry", ancient religions such as that of the Egyptians, Eastern Religions and the Kaballah in search of God or at least higher knowledge, allegedly from angels.

The Freemasons take oaths and pray to the "Grand Architect of the Universe", a politically correct god, study/seek and even apply "higher" knowledge passed to mankind from fallen angels.

The crop circles are symbols of Freemasons including stuff from their tracing boards and sacred geometry but they are leading people to believe that the crop circles are put there by aliens.

We are in the last days/end times and the Freemasons are worldwide, have nation's leaders in their ranks, have a global agenda, have put their symbolism all over the Israeli Supreme Court building and want to build the Temple, accept as members people of all religions except those who believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

It, in and of itself, is a global political and religious entity that appears to be actively helping in setting up, if not the architect, of a probable end-time delusion.

PS: And by "Freemasons", I do mean to include all the groups/societies that you can join after becoming a Master Mason.
 
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Jester4kicks

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THIS is exactly what I'm talking about.

Freemasons say, "there is no evidence of this or that" but no denials.

Umm... hi, maybe you missed the last 20+ posts I made in this thread... because there were many denials... here's some more.

Here are the facts as I've found them:

Freemasons study "sacred geometry", ancient religions such as that of the Egyptians, Eastern Religions and the Kaballah in search of God or at least higher knowledge, allegedly from angels.

Incorrect. Some freemasons might choose to study ancient religions, but that is their individual choice. Freemasonry, itself, does not study these things... nor are they taught within a masonic lodge.

Your basis for this statement was a SINGLE essay that was written by a mason, who took it upon himself to research these things. I've already proven, many times over, that this kind of reasoning doesn't apply to ANY field, masonry included.

The Freemasons take oaths and pray to the "Grand Architect of the Universe", a politically correct god, study/seek and even apply "higher" knowledge passed to mankind from fallen angels.

Yes, freemasons take oaths... which essentially consist of promising to be good people. You still haven't explained why there is anything wrong with that.

As for praying, that is somewhat correct. There is usually a prayer when the lodge is opened... but participation in that prayer is certainly not required. I don't pray, but I'll respect the others in the lodge and remain silent while they do.

The Grand Architect of the Universe is not a "politically correct god"... it is the idea or concept that represents whichever god any particular mason has individually-chosen to follow.

As for seeking knowledge, yes, all masons are encouraged to continue studying and learning in whatever subjects they are interested in. If you are interested in geology, masonry would encourage you to continue learning more about it. If you are interested in business, masonry would encourage you to continue learning more about it. There is no push for "higher" knowledge though... although I'm still not sure what you're really referring to. It sounds like you are implying something supernatural and sinister... which simply isn't true.

The crop circles are symbols of Freemasons including stuff from their tracing boards and sacred geometry but they are leading people to believe that the crop circles are put there by aliens.

SOME (not all) crop circles have been masonic symbols... but you still haven't established that it was actually a freemason that made them, nor have you established a basis for your alleged intent behind them. This is one instance where I won't offer a denial... since it could have been a mason, but I highly doubt it.

We are in the last days/end times and the Freemasons are worldwide, have nation's leaders in their ranks, have a global agenda, have put their symbolism all over the Israeli Supreme Court building and want to build the Temple, accept as members people of all religions except those who believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

First, you haven't established that there is ANY "global agenda".
Second, some leaders of business and politics are masons, but as I have said before, that is to be expected of anyone that believes is civic duty, honesty, and integrity.
Third, we've already talked about the symbolism of the Israeli Supreme Court, and how there is nothing sinister about it.
Fourth, you're only evidence of the idea to rebuild that temple was an article from 90 YEARS ago... if masons were so powerful, you would think they would have made some progress on that by now.
Finally, masons accept members of all religions, INCLUDING christians of all denominations. Masons do not discriminate based on faith.

It, in and of itself, is a global political and religious entity that appears to be actively helping in setting up, if not the architect, of a probable end-time delusion.

Freemasonry is not a political organization, nor is it a religion. As I've said before, politics and religion are the two things that you will NOT hear discussed in a lodge.

Is that enough denials for you?
 
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Sabbathiel

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Alright, I take back the "Ad Hominems" and appologize for the arrogance and sarcasm...bad day and this issue and these allegations are just so absurd and offensive.

Before anyone starts in on "Oaths":
Yes, freemasons take oaths... which essentially consist of promising to be good people. You still haven't explained why there is anything wrong with that.
It's just an obligation, "Agreement", not much different than agreeing to the terms of service or promise made when you signed up for this forum...abiding by the rules that govern these here forums. But it's more accurate to compare the obligations taken by a police officer, those in the military, etc...just saying to give you an idea, something more real than that of a lie posted in some anti-masonic web page.

Again, this is not a religion or is it anything to do with politics. World leaders probably belong to some other clubs, but I don't hear anyone screaming that those clubs are going to rule the world. Freemasonry is a FRATERNITY.

Crop circles, anyone can get a masonic diagram or emblem as they are not secret. Would you think differently if the crop circles were in the shape of some cartoon character or perhaps an emblem of some car manufacturer? "Oh my gosh, Lexus is trying to convince people of aliens!"

Do you not believe that God is the grand architect of the universe? I do. So what's the problem with that?

Denial? We deny all of your absurd allegations against the Fraternity and still ask for your evidence to prove us guilty. All we are hearing are a bunch of lies, misjudgments, and absurd conspiracy theories perhaps based on some personal paranoia. None of which means this organization is wicked, does wicked deeds or anything that conflicts with Christianity, or that it is going to rule the world.

What we have and can show you is all of the good outstanding members of the organization, laws and facts that govern the organization, and even welcome you to see the Fraternity yourself. All of which will prove every absurd claim against this organization false. Even to the magic book and teleportation theory.

I seriously doubt Paul Revere was out to take over the world...and Davy Crocket... Samuel Clemens would frown on such allegations and Mozart would have made a nifty song about all of these absurd and false conspiracy theories...

Did you know that Charles Darwin's Grandfather was a member of the fraternity? I would have thought that Charles Darwin would have joined too considering a lot of the world's leading scientist were Freemasons such as Elias Ashmole.

Hey, if you were going to join a fraternity where friendship and brotherly love is held true and practiced, why not one that consisted of the world's top most famous historical figures?
 
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Jester4kicks

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My sincere question. Why all these anti websites from former Masons then? Are they disgruntled and making it up?

Check out: http://www.masonicinfo.com/fishy.htm

It's an article about the Order of Former Freemasons, and their founder, Mike Gentry.

The anti-masonic groups and websites can essentially be divided into two categories:

1) Former masons who, for one reason or another, made the personal decision that they were not comfortable with masonry. Personally, I'm not sure why they would think there is a conflict... but obviously, some people feel that being a "real" christian conflicts with freemasonry.

Again, I've heard the excuses... but it doesn't add up to me. No offense to anyone here, but it seems like the "conflicts" that they see between the two are little more than a misunderstanding of freemasonry, or a choice to be overly-critical because of what they perceive as technicalities.

Example: Freemasonry and christianity conflict because christianity demands the belief in the holy trinity and the one true god.

Answer: Christianity can demand whatever it wants. Freemasonry does not attempt to say it is wrong, nor does it demand allegiance to any other belief. It's up to the individual to decide what they want to believe... masonry will treat them equally regardless of what that choice might be.

2) The second group would be conspiracy-theorists and other fanatics that claim to know the secrets of freemasonry, either through research or through prior membership. The easiest way to determine if the site or person fits into this group is to see if they are making outlandish claims that just don't make sense (i.e. magic, satan worship, crop circles, etc etc). Like all conspiracy theories, these folks thrive on making wild accusations, and then trying to back it up with pieces of information that wouldn't even remotely fit together unless you had already accepted the supposition they were making. (circular logic)

Edit: Oh, and another way to figure out if the website falls into this group... look at other areas of the site. A member of this forum once tried using a certain website as evidence of evil in masonry... but he neglected to realize that the next article on the site he linked to was about the lizard-people that were taking over the world. LOL!


HD, and anyone else, if you want your own answers about masonry... I would suggest arranging a tour of a local lodge. They're easy to find, and open to tours. Don't go in there looking for the worst, go there looking for answers. Ask questions. If you see something that concerns or confuses you, ask about it. Chances are, you'll get a straight answer (although sometimes a longer-winded answer than you may have wanted! LOL).
 
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Jester4kicks

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Cool! I didn't know you could have a tour. You know where any near me (Cleveland Ohio)?

Here are some links:

Grand Lodge of Ohio: http://www.freemason.com/

Looks like there are 4 lodges in Cleveland:


Halcyon #498
3615 Euclid Ave (Map)
Cleveland, OH 44115
Meetings: 2nd Monday

http:///
Euclid #599
3615 Euclid Ave (Map)
Cleveland, OH 44115
Meetings: 2nd & 4th Thurs
www.euclidlodge599.org

North Star #638
15500 Triskett Rd (Map)
Cleveland, OH 44111
Meetings: 2nd & 4th Wednesday

http:///Cleveland #781
3615 Euclid Avenue (Map)
Cleveland, OH 44115
Meetings: 1st Wednesday
jlangmead@aol.com

If none of those are close to you, or if you have trouble getting in touch with anyone, feel free to let me know and I'll see what I can do.
 
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Sabbathiel

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My sincere question. Why all these anti websites from former Masons then? Are they disgruntled and making it up?

I believe Jester did a good job answering this question but I wanted to add something.

There are websites that swear that big foot is real, tons. Why all of those websites if it were not true. From vampires to werewolves, tons and tons of websites. I've even seen a website that looks identical to Amazon, but it's strictly for Zombies. Now if there no vampires, werewolves, or zombies, then why all of the books, documentaries, movies, and websites? Because it makes money, somehow and someway!

True, that has nothing to do with Masonic conspiracies as there are no "Vampire" conspiracies, etc. But what about all of those webistes geared toward anti-Christianity and all of those sites that claim that Christians are no different than terrorists. That's a conspiracy theory... We're not out to destroy, even though there has been Christians that destroyed abortion clinics and committed hate crimes in the name of Christianity. Just look at the KKK...

That doesn't mean that Christianity is out to do evil, just that some people want to use something negative, bad, to ruin the repuation of something that's good.

However, I look at it like this:
No matter what I like, no matter how much good it is to have in my life, there's always someone in this world that's against it.

Christianity - there's anti-Christians.
Freemasonry- there's anti-masons.
Video Games - there's anti-video gamers...

The list keeps going... and everyone of them has a website somewhere...

What about your list? I know at least one on the list that we share...
 
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B

Bible2

Guest
LonesomeTexan posted in message #3:

This statement is taken directly off the free masonry
website.

Freemasonry is the oldest and largest world wide
fraternity dedicated to the Brotherhood of Man under
the Fatherhood of a Supreme Being. Although of a
religious nature, Freemasonry is not a religion. It
urges its members, however, to be faithful and
devoted to their own religious beliefs.

If this doesn't send shivers up your spine, you might
want to check your pulse.

Who is their "Father"? YHWH or Lucifer? (John 8:44)

Who do they consider to be the "Supreme Being"?
YHWH or Lucifer the Dragon? (Revelation 13:4)

How can their group be of a religious nature, but not
a religion?

Are the members which they urge to be faithful to
their own religion only their new members, of their
lower "degrees"? Do they later "initiate" some of
these members into new "revelations of truths" which
involve the "truths of all religions", and urge them
to abandon the idea that their original religion has
all the answers? And, ultimately, at their highest
"degree", do they "initiate" a very select few of
their members into the "highest truth" that "Lucifer
is God"?

If this is just a "ridiculous rumor", why don't they
share with "the Brotherhood of Man" all the "truths"
that they "reveal" to their members? Why keep them a
secret from everyone? How does that further "the
Brotherhood of Man", and "under the Fatherhood of a
Supreme Being"? If "the Brotherhood of Man" isn't
told who their true "Father" is, who the "Supreme
Being" is, but this is kept a secret from them, what
purpose does that serve?

Thank God (YHWH) that His Son Jesus Christ told us
plainly that it is YHWH who is the Supreme Being
(Mark 12:29-34, cf. Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus
19:18b) and the Father of believers (John 20:17b).
Jesus didn't keep it a secret (cf. John 18:20).
 
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B

Bible2

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Jester4kicks posted in message #227:

BTW... not that you'll pay any more attention to it
this time than you obviously did the last time, but
the "G" also stands for "Geometry".

When one is initiated into the secrets of the higher
"degrees", will it be revealed to one that the "G"
ultimately stands for "Gnosis"?

As quoted by Jen in post #225:

Here is the author’s (32 degree Freemason named
Peters) conclusion:

"Whatever the original provenance and impetus of
Freemasonry (undoubtedly the author credits info from
fallen angels), it seems clear that encoded within
the rituals is a profound doctrine of spiritual
illumination or Gnosis. ..."

In the original Greek of 1 Timothy 6:20, Paul warns
against Gnosis (knowledge) falsely so called, which
could refer to the false spiritual knowledge peddled
by the Gnostics.

One of the false teachings of the Gnostics was that
Christ never became flesh. John the apostle calls
this a teaching of the spirit of antichrist
(1 John 4:3). So the coming Antichrist will teach
Gnostic doctrine.

Could the coming Antichrist be one who has been
"initiated" into the highest "degree", along with its
ultimate secret? And when he takes power over the
world, could he then reveal this secret to everyone?
During his reign, the whole world will worship
Lucifer the dragon (Revelation 13:4).
 
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Gishin

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In short, Bible 2:

Anyone they want
Anyone they want
It's very simple, it's called being non-denominational
No, that's pretty much made up
Because then it wouldn't be much of a secret club, thus not as interesting
That was very nice of him

And to your last post, the only answer that suffices is...lol.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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When one is initiated into the secrets of the higher
"degrees", will it be revealed to one that the "G"
ultimately stands for "Gnosis"?

As quoted by Jen in post #225:

Here is the author’s (32 degree Freemason named
Peters) conclusion:

"Whatever the original provenance and impetus of
Freemasonry (undoubtedly the author credits info from
fallen angels), it seems clear that encoded within
the rituals is a profound doctrine of spiritual
illumination or Gnosis. ..."

In the original Greek of 1 Timothy 6:20, Paul warns
against Gnosis (knowledge) falsely so called, which
could refer to the false spiritual knowledge peddled
by the Gnostics.

One of the false teachings of the Gnostics was that
Christ never became flesh. John the apostle calls
this a teaching of the spirit of antichrist
(1 John 4:3). So the coming Antichrist will teach
Gnostic doctrine.

Could the coming Antichrist be one who has been
"initiated" into the highest "degree", along with its
ultimate secret? And when he takes power over the
world, could he then reveal this secret to everyone?
During his reign, the whole world will worship
Lucifer the dragon (Revelation 13:4).

I have often wondered this too. Rev 13 says the beast is "given a mouth" or representative to utter proud words and blasphemies.


Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months





Daniel 8 says that this guy causes "craft" to prosper in his hand.

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Here is a quote from another thread that sort of proves what they are up to:

"We shall unleash the Nihilists and Atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effects of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will be from that moment without compass, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view, a manifestation which will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

Sovereign Grand Commander Albert Pike 33°
Letter to Italian Grand Master Guiseppie Mazzini 33°
15 August 1871
Archives British Museum, London



So, we've got millions of men worldwide who are being trained in Luciferian doctrine (some unknowingly) and, stangely enough, most current world leaders are part of it. That can't be a coincidence.
 
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NumberOneSon

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So, we've got millions of men worldwide who are being trained in Luciferian doctrine (some unknowingly) and, stangely enough, most current world leaders are part of it. That can't be a coincidence.
Why do you keep repeating this falsehood, Jen? You have no evidence that shows "most current world leaders" are a part of the Luciferian doctrines of Freemasonry. At the beginning of this thread, the list of leaders you provided showed that only a handful of US politicians are currently involved in Freemasonry. Of the 50+ foreign leaders listed, only one or two of them are still alive, and none of them would be considered "world" leaders; The vast majority of foreign leaders on that list died between 50-100 years ago. There are only about 2 current US senators who are masons (Jesse Helms just died), no current member of the Supreme Court is a Mason, and the last masonic president was Gerald Ford.

So where is your evidence that "most current world leaders" are involved in Freemasonry? If you can't substantiate the claim then stop making it.

In Christ,

Acts6:5
 
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