Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity?

Rev Wayne · Aug 28, 2007

Jesus said, "If you have done it unto the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me." And to those to whom He pronounced these words, He also said, "Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter into the joy of the Lord."

I tend to think she has quite a reward waiting for her, myself, just from what I see in that passage alone.

And it's no surprise to hear that she might have written words like that at some point in her life. After all, Jesus said that the first thing the faithful servants will say to Him when they are commended for having done these things to Him, will be, "When did we do these things?" almost as though they never realized in doing them that they were serving Him.

Anyone who did not see that interview, if you have a chance and can get hold of it in any way, it's a fascinating thing. It was so powerful I never forgot it, and I had anything but serving God on my mind back in the days when I saw it. It was one of many links back to the faith that God kept dropping into my life at opportune moments, that eventually led me back in through the gateway into the fold. I haven't ever seen it since, which is no surprise, as she put the interviewer to shame with the simple, humble answers that snapped the lock on every trap he tried to set in front of her with his loaded questions.

Those negative remarks, by the way, came during the process that the RC follows in canonization of anyone as a saint. Ordinarily someone will take the part of "devil's advocate" in the attempt to show cause why the person who is a candidate, should not be named a saint, thus derailing the process. As I understand it, it was a reporter who came up with the letter in which that comment was made, and he seemed to be in earnest about trying to use it to stop the process. But the decision was made that the letter would not have the effect of deterring the process at all, because the experience she described is actually a very common one, similar to the "dark night of the soul" that the mystic St. John of the Cross wrote about centuries ago. Madame Guyon would be another who had such experience, which she detailed in her autobiography. I had a similar dark period duriong the year between conversion and beginning Bible College in preparation for the ministry. Let me tell you, it ain't no fun. And if I had written about it at the time, it would have been similar, because that was the way it felt, like God had not really been there at all, that everything I thought was a part of my spiritual life and eventual salvation, was a cruel ruse planted in my life by Satan. But when God shone the light through, the darkness was dispelled, and those thoughts were gone. If I had written my thoughts down at the time, I probably would have described it as "30 years" under that cloud, even though I know now that was not true.

Five'll get you ten, if Mother Teresa were here and knew what was being portrayed with the letter, she would very likely tell us the same thing about her own experience.

Rev Wayne · Aug 28, 2007

your reference of my pointing fingers is unwarranted.

I'm still inclined to disagree. If you were not trying to use it to counter the idea that she is someone whose character and salvation are as good as certain, then exactly what WERE you introducing it for?

O.F.F. · Aug 28, 2007

Rev Wayne said:
I'm still inclined to disagree. If you were not trying to use it to counter the idea that she is someone whose character and salvation are as good as certain, then exactly what WERE you introducing it for?

A better question is, since you are so adamant about staying ON TOPIC, why would you even bring her up in an unrelated thread? The fact that you were trying to force me to place judgment on the eternal state of ones soul who the world may deem as someone, whose character and salvation are beyond reproach, has nothing to do with Freemasonry. Unless of course, you are trying to imply that ones "good works" can be so beyond reproach that their salvation is as good as certain. Is this your point dear Rev?

According to God's Word, her works, your works, my works, and anyone else's are nothing but filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) when compared to the purity of Jesus Christ. That's why He is the perfect Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. And, it is His imputed righteousness that gets us to heaven. Whether Mother Teresa truly believed this or not, I don't know. But one thing I do know, the "works-based salvation" of Freemasonry will only lead a man straight to HELL.

Rev Wayne · Aug 28, 2007

But one thing I do know, the "works-based salvation" of Freemasonry will only lead a man straight to HELL.

Then I guess since that one is untrue, and since it was the "one" thing you knew, then by my calculations, you now know nothing?

George the 3rd · Aug 28, 2007

According to God's Word, her works, your works, my works, and anyone else's are nothing but filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) when compared to the purity of Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 64:5-9

5 You come to the help of those who gladly do right,
who remember your ways.
But when we continued to sin against them,
you were angry.
How then can we be saved?
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
7 No one calls on your name
or strives to lay hold of you;
for you have hidden your face from us
and made us waste away because of our sins.
8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father.
We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all the work of your hand.
9 Do not be angry beyond measure, O LORD;
do not remember our sins forever.
Oh, look upon us, we pray,
for we are all your people.

According to the 5th verse of Isaiah 64, it would seem that "works", i.e. gladly doing right and remembering God's ways, will invoke God's help. And it would seem that God's anger was a result of those who sinned against those who gladly did right and remembered God's ways. Everything referenced by Isaiah in this chapter concerns what Israel has not done or needs to do, "works", not "faith".

I fail to see the relevance of these passages to your argument against Masonry and your imagined "'works-based' salvation of Freemasonry"!

George the 3rd · Aug 28, 2007

Isaiah 64:8
Yet, O LORD, you are our Father.
We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all the work of your hand.

Are we, according to this verse, what God has made us?

Isaiah 1:16-18
Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Sounds rather "Masonic" to me!

chaoschristian · Aug 28, 2007

O.F.F. said:
I hope you are smarter than that. The question was very direct, "whether I think Mother Teresa is with Jesus," NOT "Where do you think you'll be when you die?" The answer to that question was also rendered in my reply: "Only God knows who love and trust Him for salvation."

So your personal judgment of me, and your reference of my pointing fingers is unwarranted.

Unwarranted?

No, given the tone, content and context of your engagements with Wayne.

But it wasn't very generous either, and upon re-reading your post I admit that there's an alternative interpretation that at the time, I wasn't prepared to give you credit for.

Rev Wayne · Aug 28, 2007

A better question is, since you are so adamant about staying ON TOPIC, why would you even bring her up in an unrelated thread?

"So adamant?" When was the last time I said anything about topic? Perhaps I've said it on the thread at some point, but calling back to topic a time or two over a thread over 40 pages long, hardly qualifies as "adamant about staying on topic." And as I recall, even then I wasn't being adamant about staying on topic, I was being observant in pointing out just how strenuous your efforts were to TAKE it off-topic. That's not an insistence on anything at all, except to point out the tactics being used to try to extinguish discussion of areas where you hadn't fared so well.

This one is typical as well--run into a snag in the direction you take things off-topic, and then blame the person who follows you there. My question to you was based upon the material you presented by Mr. Kupp. If it was off-topic, you have only yourself to blame.

The fact that you were trying to force me to place judgment on the eternal state of ones soul who the world may deem as someone, whose character and salvation are beyond reproach, has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

You're right, it doesn't. It had to do with the material you introduced by Kupp. But "forcing you to place judgment?" By asking a simple question???

Unless of course, you are trying to imply that ones "good works" can be so beyond reproach that their salvation is as good as certain. Is this your point dear Rev?

Funny, I don't recall saying anything about "works." If I recall correctly, I believe I said "character and witness." Why do you always translate everything anyone says to you through the lens of "works?"

Nobody's talking about works around here but you, or haven't you noticed?

According to God's Word, her works, your works, my works, and anyone else's are nothing but filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) when compared to the purity of Jesus Christ. That's why He is the perfect Lamb that takes away the sin of the world.

As a believer in Christ, naturally I agree. But guess where you can ALSO find expression of the same thing?

Thus we close the explanation of the emblems upon the solemn thought of death, which, without revelation, is dark and gloomy; but the Christian is suddenly revived by the ever green and ever living sprig of Faith in the merits of the Lion of the tribe of Judah; which strengthens him, with confidence and composure, to look forward to a blessed immortality; and doubts not, but in the glorious morn of the resurrection, his body will rise, and become as incorruptible as his soul. Then let us imitate the Christian in his virtuous and amiable conduct; in his unfeigned piety to God ; in his inflexible fidelity to his trust; that we may welcome the grim tyrant Death, and receive him as a kind messenger sent from our Supreme Grand Master, to translate us from this imperfect to that all-perfect, glorious, and celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the universe presides.

CHARGE at raising to the sublime degree of Master Mason. (Jeremy Ladd Cross, The True Masonic Chart, p. 41)

At every step we take we are reminded of our duty to God, and of the efficacious intercession of our adorable Redeemer; we are taught the necessity of a pure heart as the work of the renewing Spirit, and as the condition upon which alone eternal life can be secured. Wherever we turn our eyes, we behold the fundamental truths of the gospel strikingly represented by various significant emblems. We are directed to the Star which led the wise men to Bethlehem, proclaiming to mankind the nativity of the Son of God, and here conducting our spiritual progress to the author of redemption. The uncertainty of life, with its chequered scones, is ever before us; we are reminded that there is no escape from the piercing arrows of death; that today, the sun of prosperity and joy may shine upon our persons and families, health and strength may invigorate our frame, and we only feel the sorrow of another's woe; but tomorrow, nay, perhaps, before this day closes its light, some friendly heart may sigh over our breathless corpse, Alas! my Brother. The coffin lies before us, the skull and bones are presented to our view, and though the solemn thought of death, without the assurance of revelation, is dark and gloomy, yet the Christian is suddenly revived by the evergreen and ever-living sprig of faith, in the merits of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, which strengthens him with confidence to look forward to a blessed immortality. (The Spirit of Masonry, in The Freemasons Monthly Magazine, W. H. Herchmen, a funeral address delivered at St. Georges Lodge, Kingston, Canada)

Thus we close the explanation of the emblems upon the solemn thought of death, which, without revelation, is dark and gloomy; but the Christian is suddenly revived by the ever-green and ever living sprig of Faith in the merits of the Lion of the tribe of Judah; which strengthens him, with confidence and composure, to look forward to a blessed immortality; and doubts not, but in the glorious morn of the resurrection, his body will rise, and become as incorruptible as his soul. Then let us imitate the Christian in his virtuous and amiable conduct; in his unfeigned piety to God; and his inflexible fidelity to his trust; that we may welcome the grim tyrant Death, and receive him as a kind messenger sent from our Supreme Grand Master to translate us from this imperfect to that all-perfect, glorious, and celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the universe presides. (Henry Clinton Atwood, Charge in the Master Mason degree, The Master Workman, or True Masonic Guide, p. 74)

May we so practice Thy precepts, that, through the merits of the Redeemer, we may finally obtain Thy promise, and find an entrance through the gates, into the temple and city of our God. (The Master Masons Guide: Containing All the Monitorial Instruction in Blue Lodge Masonry, Andrew Utley, p. 15)

One is funeral, three are monitorial, all of them have clear expressions that are not just "compatible," they are overtly expressively of Christian faith. It has been very common in Masonry, since there is so much of biblical content in its rituals, and since such a large majority of its members are Christian.

There are FAR more current Christian members who see no conflicts, than there are ex-Masons who do, hands down.

And there are far more expressions that could be posted to show the abundance of expression that Christian faith finds even within Masonry, as you are well aware.

How exactly am I supposed to see "faith in the merits of the Lion of the tribe of Judah" or "through the merits of the Redeemer" as conflicts with my Christian faith?

Rev Wayne · Aug 28, 2007

I entered the phrase from one of the above quotes, "faith in the merits of the Redeemer," in the search bar at googlebooks, on the hunch that it was a common Christian expression, and pulled up nineteen pages of links!

Among them:

We must direct our prayer unto God, and look up. Eyeing the Lord Jesus in all, we must look to succeed through the merits of the Redeemer. (Charles Spurgeon, The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, p. 515)

May the Great Head of the Church grant, that we may all so learn to sing the songs of Zion here, that we may, through the merits of the Redeemer, he enabled to go from strength to strength, and at last appear before God in Zion above. (John Wesley, Hymns for the Methodist New Connexion, p. vii preface)

He declared his sure and certain hope of a blissful immortality through the merits of the Redeemer, with unwavering confidence, even unto the end; and expired in great peace on the 15th of January, 1848. (Minutes, Wesleyan Methodist Church Conference, 1852)

Just one more to add to the list of the many Christian expressions already pointed out a few pages earlier--at which point, "coincidentally," the thread was suddenly derailed.

O.F.F. · Aug 29, 2007

MOA said:
One is funeral, three are monitorial, . . .

Interesting. Would you care to provide the Grand Lodges that currently use these monitors from which these quotes come from?

G19 · Aug 29, 2007

O.F.F. said:
Interesting. Would you care to provide the Grand Lodges that currently use these monitors from which these quotes come from?

Wow a combo; red herring AND strawman.

Rev Wayne · Aug 29, 2007

Interesting. Would you care to provide the Grand Lodges that currently use these monitors from which these quotes come from?

I'll go you one better: instead of treating these as though they are the only places that such quotes can be found, I will provide additional quotes, complete with notations, where applicable, in which Grand Lodge monitors they can be found.

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay, than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (Murrow Masonic Monitor, Guthrie: Grand Lodge of Oklahoma, rev. 1988, p. 190, ceremony for laying a corner stone)

"Let all the energies of our minds and the affections of our souls be employed in the attainment of our Supreme Grand Master's approbation, that when the hour of our dissolution draws nigh and the cold winds of death come sighing around us, and his chill dew glistens on our foreheads, may we with joy obey the summons of the Grand Warden of Heaven and go from our labors here on earth to everlasting refreshment in the Paradise of God, where, by the benefit of a pass, a pure life, and a firm reliance on Divine Providence, we shall gain a ready admission into the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides, where seated at the right hand of our Supreme Grand master, He will be pleased to pronounce us just and upright Masons." [Murrow Masonic Monitor and Ceremonies (Oklahoma)1997, p. 90]

It is therefore proper and in accordance with Masonic law and tenets for a Mason who believes in the Christ Jesus to offer prayers in the Lodge in His Name. (Masonic Code, Grand Lodge of Alabama, 1963, p. 141)

I now solemnly consecrate this lodge to the honor and glory of Jehovah, the Grand Architect of the Universe. (Monitor of the Lodge, Waco: Grand Lodge of Texas, 1982, p. 148)

[The first section of this degree teaches the candidate, by Symbols, many important lessons, and among other things, that Masonry is a moral institution, founded upon the morality as taught in the Bible, and that he has to take the Holy Bible as the rule and guide to his faith and practice; it being the great light in Masonry and the source whence we, as Masons, derive all our ethics.
The ceremonies as taught in this section not only serve as marks of distinction, but communicate useful and interesting knowledge, when they are thoroughly investigated and understood.] (Texas Masonic Monitor, first line under the heading, Entered Apprentice )

However they may differ in creed or theology, all good men are agreed that within the covers of the Holy Bible are found those principles of morality which lay the foundation upon which to build a righteous life. It is the one volume which has lived in the hearts of the people, molding and shaping their destinies; and it leads the way to Him who is the Light of the world. (Louisiana Masonic Monitor (Walker, LA.: Lavergnes River Parish Press, 1988, p. 24-26)

I am the resurrection and the Life, saith the Lord. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. (Masonic Manual of the Grand Lodge of Georgia, Macon: Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Georgia, 1973, p. 145-46)

As the Bible is the first Great Light presented to a candidate, the following quotations from that inspired book are recommended to his previous perusal:

"Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
"He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
"He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbor, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbor.
"In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoreth them that fear the Lord. He that sweareth to his own heart, and changeth not.
"He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent." Psalm XV.
"Who shall ascend into the hills of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place?
He that hath clean hands and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully."--Psalm XXIV, 3, 4.
"What man is he that desireth life, and loveth many days, that he may see good?
"Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile.
"Depart from evil and do good; seek peace, and pursue it."--Psalm XXXIV, 12-14.
Then let the candidate prepare himself to say:
"I will take heed to my ways, that I sin not with my tongue; I will keep my mouth with a bridle, while the wicked is before me."--Psalm XXXIX, 1.
"I will wash mine hands in innocency; so will I compass thine altar, O Lord."--Psalm XXVI, 6.
(Ahiman Rezon With Constitution and Code of the Grand Lodge of Ancient Free Masons of South Carolina, Lexington, SC: 2003, p. 165-66)

A Lodge is an assemblage of Masons duly congregated, having the Holy Bible, Square and Compasses, and a Charter or Warrant of Constitution authorizing them to work.
Every lawful assemblage of Masons, duly congregated for work, will be a just and legally constituted Lodge. It is just, that is regular and orderly, when it contains the requisite number to form a quorum, and when the Bible, Square, and Compasses are present. (Ahiman Rezon, SC, 2003, p. 87-88)

Every Free Mason is required to worship God in the manner and form which he conscientiously believes to be most acceptable in His sight, and most conformable to His Word. In short, the Mason's moral and religious duties are comprised in this command: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and thy neighbor as thyself. (Ahiman Rezon, SC, 2003, p. 168)

Rev Wayne · Aug 29, 2007

Volume of the Sacred Law

The Bible, referred to by Freemasons as the Volume of the Sacred Law, is always open at every Masonic meeting.
(Statement of the United Grand Lodge of England, restricting the UGLE definition of "Volume of Sacred Law" to the Holy Bible)

From the glossary of the Masonic Heirloom Bible, Master Mason edition:

FATHER—The title by which God is distinguished as being the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ and of all his true disciples.

GOD—The Scriptures are full of the truth that there is only one True God. In the OT, God revealed himself to the Hebrews in various ways. In the NT, God revealed himself in Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son. Ex. 3:2-6; Deut. 6:4; Acts 17:27-29; I Cor. 8:4-6.

GOSPEL—The glad tidings of salvation through Jesus Christ.

INTERCESSION—Prayer in behalf of others. Christ is our intercessor or Advocate. The Holy Spirit also makes intercession.

JESUS CHRIST-- The name Jesus means Saviour, derived from the ancient Hebrew, Jehoshua, found only in the NT and should be applied exclusively to Christ. The title CHRIST means anointed, consecrated, sacred, and is used only for the Messiah, who came in fulfillment of prophecy. The whole of OT history took on a new and deeper meaning with His coming. He was born in Bethlehem into an ordinary Jewish family from Nazareth. The person, life, and the work of Jesus are the subject of the whole NT (and in prophecy of the OT), and as a whole, are the historical and doctrinal foundation of Christianity. Matt. 1:1, 21; 16; 13:20; 26:71; John 1:17, 20:31; Acts 2:36.

JUSTIFICATION—An act of free grace by which God pardons the sinner and accepts him as righteous because of the atonement of Christ. Faith is the only means of justification. Rom. 3:23; 4:25.

KINGDOM OF GOD,
KINGDOM OF HEAVEN—These terms denote the blessedness of the followers of Christ, partially attained in this life and perfectly in the world to come.

LAMB—A title given to the Lord Jesus Christ as the atoning sacrifice for the sins of his people. Its innocence and gentleness made the lamb an example of such qualities in the Saviour. In John 21:15 “lambs” means disciples of Christ. (Rev. 5:6, 8, 12, 13).

LORD’S SUPPER—This was instituted by Christ on the night preceding his crucifixion. It is a memorial of Christ’s atoning death and a visible token of Christian fellowship. (Matt. 26:19-30; I Cor.11:23-26).

LOVE—The perfect exercise of love includes our whole duty to God and our fellowman. The love of God to man is manifested in Jesus Christ.

MEDIATOR—One that interposes between persons who are at variance for the purpose of reconciling them. It is a title for Christ, who is the only mediator between God and man. (I Tim. 2:5, Heb. 12:24).

SACRIFICE—In the OT was the killing, burning and sometimes killing of an animal at the altar. Part of it was offered to God, part eaten by the priest and part by the worshiper. A sacrifice was presented to God as a gift, as an act of thanksgiving, devotion, repentance or payment of vows made to God. The perfect sacrifice was made through the perfect Saviour, Jesus Christ, offered once only and for all. (Ex. 3:18, 40:29, Heb. 13:15, 21

SALVATION—Deliverance from temporal evils or earthly destruction. God is figuratively called “salvation” in Ps. 27:1. In the NT, it denotes the deliverance from sin and death through faith in Christ. (Ex. 14:13; Matt. 1:21).

And for good measure:

The history recorded in the Old Testament relates not only to external events, but to the more important matters of religion and ethics. It embraces not only the perfected thought of 1000 years of development, but also the crude morality of nomad tribes when "an eye for an eye" registered the current conception of justice.
It is a far cry from that crude and cruel morality to the teaching of Micah: ''What doth Jehovah require of thee but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" And the advance proceeds as we reach the New Testament. There we find such a consummate climax of religion and morality as is reached in the summary of the commandments:" Thou shalt love the Lord thy God With all thy heart and With all thy soul and With all thy mind and With all thy strength; and thy neighbor as thyself," conjoined with such peaks of self-control as in the command: " Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you, bless them that curse you, pray for them that despitefully use you."
The Bible is not, then, one dead level of ethics, religion, or culture. It is the register of a progress from a primitive stage of morals to the highest yet known. Not the inferior starting points of this morality are commended to you, but that level of action which best befits a man who would act on the square in this age of enlightenment.
If, therefore, you find in the record the sharp-practice of a Jacob or the polygamy of a Jacob or a Solomon, it is not there as a pattern for your own life and practice. It is, just a record, faithful to fact and the witness to fidelity in recording.
You are not to reproduce in this age the life and morals of 1200 B. C., or of an earlier age. You are to exercise the judgment of one living in the light of the prophets, of Jesus Christ, and of the great teachers and moralists who have followed them.
The highest pattern is yours to follow, that, as the Supreme Teacher expressed it, "Ye may be sons of your Father in heaven.'' This is the spirit and this the method in and by which you are encouraged to approach this masterpiece of literature, ethics, and religion, to draw from it the principles of the conduct you as a Mason shall exhibit in the lodge and in the world.
My brother, it is the beautiful practice of this lodge to present to each of the initiates a copy of the Great Light. It is my present pleasing duty to make this presentation in the name of the Worshipful Master and in behalf of the Lodge.
Receive, it, read it with painstaking care, study it sympathetically, appropriate its most exalted teachings, exemplify them in your life.Therein is found " the way to life eternal."
(Mackey’s Encyclopedia, “Bible Addresses&#8221

And even this is FAR from being an exhaustive list.

Needless to say, I do not see any of this as a problem of compatibility with my Christian faith.

Mankin · Aug 30, 2007

Can someone educate me in the ideas of Freemasonry. I know that it is a neo order of the Knight's Templar and some of it has to do with the Jesus married Mary Magdenlene theory but what is Freemasonry really about?

Albion · Aug 30, 2007

Mankin said:
Can someone educate me in the ideas of Freemasonry. I know that it is a neo order of the Knight's Templar and some of it has to do with the Jesus married Mary Magdenlene theory but what is Freemasonry really about?

The Knights Templar are an appendage of Freemasonry, not the basic lodge that all Masons belong to and which we here have mainly been discussing. NONE of it has to do with the Mary Magdelene theory.

The MM theory is speculation that was used for several books that made it "big" recently--Holy Grail Holy Blood and the DaVinci Code. Both of them played free and loose with historical facts and were not written by Masons.

But in answer to your question about where to seek additional and reliable information, I would be guided by one of the Masons here, such as RevWayne. However, I would note that any good bookstore, such as Barnes and Noble, has a number of helpful books. One that is certainly to be recommended is Freemasons for Dummies. It was written by a Mason as an intro to Masonry and is easy to read and understand, quite thorough, and is often recommended by Masons to inquirers.

G19 · Aug 30, 2007

Mankin said:
Can someone educate me in the ideas of Freemasonry. I know that it is a neo order of the Knight's Templar

There is no valid historical link between modern freemasonry and the Knights Templar. One of the best books attempting to establish such a link is John Robinson's "Born in Blood". Most, if not all supporting evidence is circumstantial at best. Masonic scholars are divided on the subject, but most of them today believe the order formed out of the medieval stonemason guilds.

and some of it has to do with the Jesus married Mary Magdenlene theory but what is Freemasonry really about?

That's not a part of freemasonry at all. Not even a hint of such.

chaoschristian · Aug 30, 2007

I think something needs to be clarified to avoid confusion.

Modern Masonry is not connected to the ancient Knights Templar, formally known as The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon. As others have pointed out, the best evidence is circumstantial in connecting the two.

However, there is a branch of Masonry that is knownn as the Knights Templar, formally known as The United Religious, Military and Masonic Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta.

This is an order of the York Rite, an appendant body of of Masonry. The Knights Templar style themselves off of the Templar and other chivalrous orders and are the only branch of appendant Masonry which requires its members to be Christian.

Rev Wayne · Aug 30, 2007

This is an order of the York Rite, an appendant body of of Masonry. The Knights Templar style themselves off of the Templar and other chivalrous orders and are the only branch of appendant Masonry which requires its members to be Christian.

My understanding, until a couple of days ago, was that only the chivalrous orders of York Rite had the requirement that one profess Christian faith in order to join. However, in submitting a petition to York Rite membership, there it was right there on the petition, a required acknowledgment of Christian faith before I could have the petition accepted for York Rite membership.

Now, whether that reflects a difference in our jurisdiction from others, I haven't the faintest clue. Interestingly, in submitting the petition, I found out that my next-door neighbor, who is presenting my petition, is Past GM of SC. That blew me away, there is nothing that would have given a clue in the least, he's just your average age 70+ retiree who piddles with yard work all day.

O.F.F. · Aug 30, 2007

MOA said:
The Bible, referred to by Freemasons as the Volume of the Sacred Law, is always open at every Masonic meeting. (Statement of the United Grand Lodge of England, restricting the UGLE definition of "Volume of Sacred Law" to the Holy Bible)

The UGLE does NOT RESTRICT its definition of "Volume of Sacred Law" (VSL) to ONLY the Holy Bible.

Q: Why do you call it the VSL and not the Bible?

A: To the majority of Freemasons the Volume of the sacred Law is the Bible. There are many in Freemasonry, however, who are not Christian and to them the Bible is not their sacred book and they will make their promises on the book which is regarded as sacred to their religion. The Bible will always be present in an English lodge but as the organisation welcomes men of many different faiths, it is called the Volume of the Sacred Law. Thus, when the Volume of the Sacred Law is referred to in ceremonies, to a non-Christian it will be the holy book of his religion and to a Christian it will be the Bible.

The Q & A Section of the UGLE Website (emphasis added)

So in actuality, the UGLE (the Mother of Freemasonry) defines the "VSL" as "The holy book of a Mason's religion," not strictly the Bible. To be a disingenuous Mason is one thing, but to be a disingenuous pastor is appalling.

MOA said:
From the glossary of the Masonic Heirloom Bible, Master Mason edition

The Masonic Heirloom Bible is NOT an official publication of any Grand Lodge in the world. To post excerpts from it as if it were, is not only disingenuous, it's deliberately misleading.

Furthermore, a ceremony for laying a corner stone does not have anything to do with becoming a Mason. I challenge you to show us where Jesus Christ is specifically mentioned in or during any of the Blue Lodge rituals (1st, 2nd or 3rd degree ceremonies).

Also, Andrew Utley, "The Master Mason’s Guide" and Jeremy Ladd Cross, "The True Masonic Chart" are NOT official monitors of any Grand Lodge. You knew that when you posted quotes from them, and could not answer my question, when I asked you to provide the Grand Lodges that currently use them.

Posting quotes where the terms "Redeemer" or "Lion of the tribe of Judah" mean absolutely nothing, since it has already been shown here, by Grand Lodge authority, that Masonically these are generic terms for the "Mediator" or "Messiah" of the religion of any Mason. This makes perfect Masonic sense, since Grand Lodge monitors are issued to Masons who are Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, others who have no faith other than in a Supreme Being, or "Higher Power" as well as men who claim to be Christians. This is why the Grand Lodge of Florida states the following:

The expression does not, of necessity, refer to Jesus of Nazareth, though the Christian Mason may so interpret the name if he desires. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah also describes the Messiah of the Jewish Mason or the mediator of some of the ancient religions of the East whose worshippers are Masons.

Grand Lodge of Florida Mentor's Manual, page 24 (emphasis added)

The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania supports this same idea by currently circulating a book by Masonic author Oliver Day Street titled, Symbolism of the Three Degrees, which says virtually the same thing, but emphasizes the point even more:

This expression does not, as many Masons suppose, necessarily have a reference to Jesus of Nazareth. The Christian Mason is privileged so to interpret it, if he likes, but the Jew has equal right to understand it as meaning his Messiah. Indeed, every great religion of the world has contained the conception in some form of a Mediator between God and man, a Redeemer who would raise mankind from the death of this life and the grave to an everlasting existence with God hereafter. The Mason who is a devotee of one of these religions, say, Buddhism, Brahmanism or Mohammedanism, is likewise entitled to construe this expression as referring to his own Mediator.

Symbolism of the Three Degrees, pp. 154-155 (emphasis added)

As for Oklahoma Masonry, although he is not a member of O.F.F., let a former member who practiced in that jurisdiction tell us like it really is:

Racism is rampant here. Over half the members I have met openly announce that they will resign the day that a '[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]' sets in an Oklahoma Lodge. Racist jokes are common place just before or after a Masonic function. One of our past grand masters even made racists jokes at a District meeting.

We are not even a little bit selective about the white people we let into lodge. In Oklahoma if you are white and are not on America's Most Wanted, then some lodge will let you in. I personally know of a lodge Jr. Warden who was renown in his town as an alcoholic and wife beater. He was widely known as such when initiated, passed, raised, and when elected to office. And this is not at all an exception in Oklahoma. In fact the bulk of attending Masons (those that show up) are usually from the lower end of society.

They are the poorly educated, bigoted, and often ignorant. I know of Past Masters that won't keep a job, Past Masters that are renowned for their belligerent attitude, etc. They seem perplexed that the few members in the lodge that have some community standing (be they a teacher, doctor, etc.) don't show up for meetings. Well it's because they are embarrassed to be seen with their lodge brothers. I am also not talking about 1 or 2 incidents. In my entire district there are maybe 6 to 8 Masons that I would not be ashamed to have showed up at my job. I had one Past Master show up at my office on one occasion having worn the same clothes for several days. When I joined not one person that signed my petition even knew me at all. I asked friends and coworkers, none had ever had any inquiries about my character. Frankly, none in the lodge cared as long as I was willing to pay the dues. But maybe it's different elsewhere.

We lead a man to believe that he will learn great philosophical truths. This is what originally attracted me to Masonry, as I have always been a student of philosophy. Yet the 'teachings' of Masonry are the most mundane and commonplace lessons that virtually all men have already heard elsewhere. When we charge a man for degrees in which he learns 'lessons' that he already knows, we are in effect defrauding him.

Few Oklahoman Masons take it seriously. Even those who memorize the degree work frequently don't even know the meanings of the words they memorize much less the meanings (you would be amazed how many think the word 'allusion' is 'illusion.'

Frankly, Masonry is not evil; it's not a conspiracy, etc. It is simply (at least in Oklahoma) a club for old men and rednecks to go to and give each other important sounding titles.

The Truth About Freemasonry, by Chuck Easttom, former 32° Mason from Oklahoma

So much for Masonic compatibility with true Christianity.

G19 · Aug 30, 2007

Rev Wayne said:
My understanding, until a couple of days ago, was that only the chivalrous orders of York Rite had the requirement that one profess Christian faith in order to join. However, in submitting a petition to York Rite membership, there it was right there on the petition, a required acknowledgment of Christian faith before I could have the petition accepted for York Rite membership.

I learned that back in March when I petitioned. Very cool degree work in the YR!

Interestingly, in submitting the petition, I found out that my next-door neighbor, who is presenting my petition, is Past GM of SC. That blew me away, there is nothing that would have given a clue in the least, he's just your average age 70+ retiree who piddles with yard work all day.

Now that's pretty cool.

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