FreeinChrist, could we have some clarification on something?

[tall73]

I just noticed that these 'new' rules were just stickied YESTERDAY! May I ask when they were initiated the FIRST time since we are being REMINDED of them?

I honestly do not recall ever seeing these rules before. Link please?

Yes, essentially these rules prevent you from talking about many issues. That is actually not a good thing.

So before some start asking for more rules, they might want to analyze what they were already given.

In fact, this rule looks a lot like one that was rejected in the recent rules formation.

 

[TrustAndObey]

And you shouldn't publicly post things about people if you don't want to be responded to. One is for debate and one is not. But both forums are public forums. And once an idea is public it can be debated publicly.

Tall, if I had brought your name up in the thread or Free's name up in that thread, then fine, you both would've had reason to ask me to debate it. However, reality is that I was making a general observation about ex-Adventists that try to get other Adventists out of our church.

If that shoe fits you, wear it. Don't blame me for it.

The rules here are for Adventists. WE are the ones that I have to be comfortable in our forum. Why in the world would we try to make it more comfortable for the people bashing us?

 

[tall73]

Tall, if I had brought your name up in the thread or Free's name up in that thread, then fine, you both would've had reason to ask debate me on it. However, reality is that I was making a general observation about ex-Adventists that try to get other Adventists out of our church.

If that shoe fits you, wear it. Don't blame me for it.

The rules here are for Adventists. WE are the ones that I have to be comfortable in our forum. Why in the world would we try to make it more comfortable for the people bashing us?

If you were talking about Mother Theresa and Barney I could still comment on public information.

So if I understand correctly you want a place where you can be comfortable talking about people you don't like?

 

[TrustAndObey]

If you were talking about Mother Theresa and Barney I could still comment on public information.

So if I understand correctly you want a place where you can be comfortable talking about people you don't like?

Oh brother. We set up that area for Traditional Adventists to talk about Traditional Adventist issues and doctrine, where there would NOT be any debate.

It shouldn't make EX-Adventists uncomfortable at all, because they shouldn't be going there. They know they cannot debate there Tall, even though some try.

It's not that I don't like them. I am sick of people trying to bully us. That is the one place on this whole site where they CANNOT. That isn't going to change.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Thats all well and good--but WHEN were these rules first developed and POSTED for all the see and WHO did it?

 

[tall73]

Thats all well and good--but WHEN were these rules first developed and POSTED for all the see and WHO did it?

As far as I know they were proposed in the FSG discussion and rejected, and then suddenly enacted yesterday.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I want a place to talk about ISSUES I don't like. PERIOD.

You do not have a say in what we talk about there. We already know that you disagree with us.

Where I take issue is when you or anybody else has the audacity to think you get to tell us we can't stay in a church that we agree with and are very thankful for. I know you don't like it that you can't influence our decisions, but that's how it is.

 

[tall73]

Oh brother. We set up that area for Traditional Adventists to talk about Traditional Adventist issues and doctrine, where there would NOT be any debate.

It shouldn't make EX-Adventists uncomfortable at all, because they shouldn't be going there. They know they cannot debate there Tall, even though some try.

It's not that I don't like them. I am sick of people trying to bully us. That is the one place on this whole site where they CANNOT. That isn't going to change.

I didn't go in your area and post debate. You are still free from my debate there. But your ideas are public, and fair game.

Now, the real issue here that HTS seems to have picked up on , but perhaps you have not, is that many of your issues will now be off limits for discussion because they might accidentally mention a progressive concept or person. You and the progs have been censored.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Thats all well and good--but WHEN were these rules first developed and POSTED for all the see and WHO did it?

Another question would be if these mystery rules are retroactive and if people's posts were pulled due to rules we didn't know anything about.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I won't read what the people on CARM say anymore Tall. It was just ugly. A bunch of people trying to tell Adventists they're stupid for staying in a church and giving a whole day to God?

This is patently false. There are many on CARM who take no issue with a person for observing a sabbath, but who have grave concerns about a person claiming that sabbath observance will allow them to maintain salvation and avoid the mark of the beast. There are many who openly acknowledge that there are currently justified persons in the SDA denomination, but who express grave concerns about the doctrine of salvation by faith PLUS works. You see that as attacking. I do not.

BFA

 

[honorthesabbath]

As far as I know they were proposed in the FSG discussion and rejected, and then suddenly enacted yesterday.

Well--that's what I thought! This is absolutely not right. Threads are being closed and SE's given by rules that didn't exist until AFTER the actions were done.

I think we need an explanation of this to our members.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I didn't go in your area and post debate. You are still free from my debate there. But your ideas are public, and fair game.

You are taking a Traditional Adventist-specific problem and making it personal. You really just proved my point, if you'd stop and think about it. We ARE bullied here and can't say anything anywhere without ex-Adventists attacking it/us.

Now, the real issue here that HTS seems to have picked up on , but perhaps you have not, is that many of your issues will now be off limits for discussion because they might accidentally mention a progressive concept or person. You and the progs have been censored.

Nothing I said was about Progressives or Progressive concepts. I was specifically talking about ex-Adventists.

 

[tall73]

I want a place to talk about ISSUES I don't like. PERIOD.

You do not have a say in what we talk about there. We already know that you disagree with us.

Where I take issue is when you or anybody else has the audacity to think you get to tell us we can't stay in a church that we agree with and are very thankful for. I know you don't like it that you can't influence our decisions, but that's how it is.

Now the mods have a say in what you talk about there, and you just thanked them for it.

And can you show me where my thread you are referencing said you can't stay in the church?

 

[tall73]

Well--that's what I thought! This is absolutely not right. Threads are being closed and SE's given by rules that didn't exist until AFTER the actions were done.

I think we need an explanation of this to our members.

I agree. And you might get more traction if you posted a new thread.

Essentially this would make discussing prog or trad issues "flaming" or "baiting".

If they don't meet the threshold on their own merits then it should not matter where they are posted.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Important phone call...brb.

 

[tall73]

You are taking a Traditional Adventist-specific problem and making it personal. You really just proved my point, if you'd stop and think about it. We ARE bullied here and can't say anything anywhere without ex-Adventists attacking it/us.

You can't make public statements without them being discussed? Welcome to life.

Nothing I said was about Progressives or Progressive concepts. I was specifically talking about ex-Adventists.

And you will not be able to talk about progressives anymore either. Which you have done on occasion.

 

[TrustAndObey]

And can you show me where my thread you are referencing said you can't stay in the church?

Tall, not everyone is as blatant as Byfaithalone, but we get the idea of what you're trying to do here.

I don't take issue with debate or I never would've agreed to a debate section, but I think we all know why you're here. I won't have anything to do with rules that make it easier for YOU. This is our forum. It's for us and we need to be comfortable with the rules.

 

[tall73]

Tall, not everyone is as blatant as Byfaithalone, but we get the idea of what you're trying to do here.

I don't take issue with debate or I never would've agreed to a debate section, but I think we all know why you're here. I won't have anything to do with rules that make it easier for YOU. This is our forum. It's for us and we need to be comfortable with the rules.

Comfortable discussing folks where they can't set the record straight?

And as for me being here, I am here because I was here before all this started and have been discussing issues all along. It helps me in my process to find the truth.

Now that I have changed some positions there is something helpful about debating with those who think similarly to how I used to to test my presuppositions.

However, I don't mind if folks are influenced. Discussion does influence.

 

[honorthesabbath]

I agree. And you might get more traction if you posted a new thread.

Essentially this would make discussing prog or trad issues "flaming" or "baiting".

If they don't meet the threshold on their own merits then it should not matter where they are posted.

I kind of thought that this is what this thread was about, since T&O did post the new rules REMINDER (whattha) here. But I may go ahead and start a new thread about this new rules issue. It really is not right at all.

 

[TrustAndObey]

You can't make public statements without them being discussed? Welcome to life.

Welcome to proving my point that ex-Adventists bully us. Not all of them try to help make our rules like you do, but it's coming I'm sure. There has to be a stopping point somewhere!

And you will not be able to talk about progressives anymore either. Which you have done on occasion.

I'll talk about them WITH them and TO them.

If I want to talk about an issue specific to Traditional Adventists though, I will do that in our non-debate area and I will NOT be bullied by you or anybody else about it.

You were just mad you couldn't go in there and lambast me. Welcome to the rules. You helped vote that particular bunch in.