Free Will

[Dah'veed]

When discussing the topic of free will, after you cut through the smoke screen, inevitably the "free will" adherent begins to backpedal:
"No one is saved against their will". The fact of the matter is whether you love it or leave it, the offer is on the table,
"I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant." Ezek 37:26 "Nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,” Isa 54:10
The Lord will declare peace to his faithful people, Ps 85:8 Jesus said, “Peace be with you!" John 20:21 Rom 5:1
And the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, will make you complete through Jesus Christ; Heb 13:20-21

In contrast, those who willingly oppose Christ are hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. The way of peace they have not known; Isa 59:8 Rom 3:17 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief; Heb 3:12

 

[sandman]

In what you described how does that cause a "free will adherent begins to backpedal"
It appears to me that you describe free will

 

[Dah'veed]

In what you described how does that cause a "free will adherent begins to backpedal"
It appears to me that you describe free will

Why would they bellyache about having assurance if they were heirs in Christ?
If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John 8:36

 

[Clare73]

When discussing the topic of free will, after you cut through the smoke screen, inevitably the "free will" adherent begins to backpedal:
"No one is saved against their will".

FIrst of all, "free will" is not a concern of the Bible, it is a philosophical notion; i.e., self-power to make all moral choices without external force or constraint.

Free will in the Bible is limited, and would be what the the philosopher's call "free agency; i.e., self-power to make some moral choices, but not all, as in not able to choose to be actually sinless in thought, word and deed at all times.

Also, free will does not operate in a vacuum. It is governed by the disposition; i.e., what one prefers.

The Bible presents unregenerate man's inability to choose God (1 Co 2:14, Ro 8:7-8, Jn 3:3-5).
He does so only by God's enablement.

God works in the disposition of man, giving him to prefer God, and man freely and willingly chooses without any force what he wants to choose.There is nothing more free than that.

No one is saved against their will, all are saved by their free and willing choice.

The fact of the matter is whether you love it or leave it, the offer is on the table,
"I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant." Ezek 37:26 "Nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,” Isa 54:10
The Lord will declare peace to his faithful people, Ps 85:8 Jesus said, “Peace be with you!" John 20:21 Rom 5:1
And the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, will make you complete through Jesus Christ; Heb 13:20-21

In contrast, those who willingly oppose Christ are hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. The way of peace they have not known; Isa 59:8 Rom 3:17

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief; Heb 3:12

 

[sandman]

Why would they bellyache about having assurance if they were heirs in Christ?
If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John 8:36

You lost me …who is they?

Or maybe we just have different conceptions of the term (free will).

*One group believes we have free will to decide (make choices) …that me

*Others believe God has pre-determined who will be saved and that their plan is laid out for them ….…that is not me.

 

[d taylor]

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Free will exist because God has given the ability to each person to be able to have faith, belief in something or someone.

If free will did not exist we would all believe the same.

 

[d taylor]

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Free will exist but unlimited free will does not. One example once a person becomes a born again child of God. They can never decide to become an un-born again child of God.

Free Will and Eternal Security – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Dah'veed]

FIrst of all, "free will" is not a concern of the Bible, it is a philosophical notion; i.e., self-power to make all moral choices without external force or constraint.
The Bible presents unregenerate man's inability to choose God (1 Co 2:14, Ro 8:7-8, Jn 3:3-5).
He does so only by God's enablement.

So what you're saying is that with a mortal human being, this is impossible.
The mind governed by the flesh is death,

God works in the disposition of man, giving him to prefer God, and man freely and willingly chooses without any force what he wants to choose.There is nothing more free than that.

No one is saved against their will, all are saved by their free and willing choice.

but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. Rom 8:6

 

[Dah'veed]

You lost me …who is they?

Those who promote free will and deny assurance of salvation through Christ.

Or maybe we just have different conceptions of the term (free will).
*One group believes we have free will to decide (make choices) …that me
*Others believe God has pre-determined who will be saved and that their plan is laid out for them ….…that is not me.

God pre-determined salvation through Christ, in which case they would be redeemed. Rom 8:29
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus Eph 2:10

 

[Dah'veed]

Free will exist because God has given the ability to each person to be able to have faith, belief in something or someone.

Is it the natural man or the spiritual man who has been given a measure of faith? 1 Cor 15:49

If free will did not exist we would all believe the same.

That there is one God one Lord one faith one Spirit? Eph 4:4-7

 

[BobRyan]

When discussing the topic of free will, after you cut through the smoke screen, inevitably the "free will" adherent begins to backpedal:

Or they just keep quoting the Bible affirming free will -

Rom 11;
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.

Is 5:4
What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it?
Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

And yet only the "FEW" of Matt 7 are going to be saved at the end of time.

Matt 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is the One who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

John 1:11-12
11 He came to His own, and His own did not accept Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name,

 

[sandman]

Those who promote free will and deny assurance of salvation through Christ.

We do have a different concept ....that borders on absurd.

God pre-determined salvation through Christ, in which case they would be redeemed. Rom 8:29
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus Eph 2:10

I am with you on that … The question becomes did God predetermine who would believe ….and much more.

The predetermined group believes that God is in control of everything including ….determining who gets the BBQ and who has eternal life….I don’t buy that at all.

 

[Dah'veed]

Or they just keep quoting the Bible affirming free will -

Rom 11;
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

For if the the first-fruit, the loaf, and root is holy, so are the branches. Rom 11:16

John 1:11-12 He came to His own, and His own did not accept Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name,

Live in Me and I in you; as a branch cannot bear fruit of itself. John 15:4

 

[Dah'veed]

We do have a different concept ....that borders on absurd.

It's definitely absurd to Atheists that God is and reconciles us through His Son.

I am with you on that … The question becomes did God predetermine who would believe ….and much more.

The predetermined group believes that God is in control of everything including ….determining who gets the BBQ and who has eternal life….I don’t buy that at all.

That's simple, those who believe are filled with the Spirit and have eternal life.

 

[Dah'veed]

Free will exist but unlimited free will does not. One example once a person becomes a born again child of God. They can never decide to become an un-born again child of God.

Now that they have tasted that the Lord is good, the least they can do is not fall into hypocrisy.

 

[BobRyan]

Live in Me and I in you; as a branch cannot bear fruit of itself. John 15:4

John 15 speaks of "branches in me that do not bear fruit" that are cut out and cast into fire.

Just as Gal 5:4 says "you have been severed from Christ... you have fallen from grace"

 

[Blade]

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​

Free will exist but unlimited free will does not. One example once a person becomes a born again child of God. They can never decide to become an un-born again child of God.

Free Will and Eternal Security – Grace Evangelical Society

This is not true. There are those, very few but there are some that have tasted known God and the powers of the age to come and freely walk away. The fact fallen angels.. there is no salvation no I am sorry I made a mistake they are lost forever we just tend to think more highly of our selfs and forget who GOD really is. Everyone gets a choice most are blind and since we were lied to God knows this so to be saved is easy very hard to be lost

 

[d taylor]

This is not true. There are those, very few but there are some that have tasted known God and the powers of the age to come and freely walk away. The fact fallen angels.. there is no salvation no I am sorry I made a mistake they are lost forever we just tend to think more highly of our selfs and forget who GOD really is. Everyone gets a choice most are blind and since we were lied to God knows this so to be saved is easy very hard to be lost

Angels were in the same position as Adam created by God. Once Adam after his fall, believed in The Messiah and again and became a child of God. He then could not do again what he did the first time. But fallen angels were never offered what Adam was offered.

 

[Dah'veed]

John 15 speaks of "branches in me that do not bear fruit" that are cut out and cast into fire.

Just as Gal 5:4 says "you have been severed from Christ... you have fallen from grace"

It says that you who are seeking to be made right with God by the works of the law have been separated from Christ.
Jesus is the stone you builders rejected.

Those who belong to Christ, live by the Spirit. What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; relying on flesh profits nothing.
This is the reason why I have told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father unites them together with Me.
John 6:62-65
Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. John 6:45
Born of God. 1 John 5:1

Peace belongs to my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. R 5:1
Dah'veed

 

[Clare73]

Or they just keep quoting the Bible affirming free will -

Rom 11;
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.

Is 5:4
What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it?
Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

And yet only the "FEW" of Matt 7 are going to be saved at the end of time.

Matt 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is the One who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

John 1:11-12
11 He came to His own, and His own did not accept Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name,

All are saved by their free and willing choice, God having given them to prefer him, which is why they willingly and freely choose him (post #4).