free will

[bbyrd009]

Well, it is not meant to really be comprehended by us, but presented as truth? It is said that you cannot find God with your mind...

 

[quatona]

This is where free will can really blossom, and becomes evident, in 'making a choice.' To accomplish something for the greater good. It is then that the answer to your (apparent) question...materializes : )

So that´s what characters in a book can do?

 

[bbyrd009]

So that´s what characters in a book can do?

You bet--but again, a choice--this time, in books--is required. You only disbelieve in choices when your choices are not empowered, effective. Small steps in this direction produce big results. Peace!

 

[quatona]

You bet--but again, a choice--this time, in books--is required. You only disbelieve in choices when your choices are not empowered, effective. Small steps in this direction produce big results. Peace!

Last time I checked characters in a book didn´t even act, so the question whether they make choices or not is, well, absurd.

 

[poolerboy0077]

Do this.

Think of a famous celebrity right now. Now try to understand why that person came to your mind and not another person. The point here is to show that one cannot account for why such thoughts arise because, while they may seem like conscious decisions, the thought processes which precede them are beyond your control, much like the processes in your body of which you are not aware.


As one author put it:

"My workflow may sound a little unconventional, but my experience of writing this article fully illustrates my view of free will. Thoughts and intentions arise; other thoughts and intentions arise in opposition. I want to sit down to write, but then I want something else—to exercise, perhaps. Which impulse will win? For the moment, I’m still writing, and there is no way for me to know why—because at other times I’ll think, 'This is useless. I’m going to the gym,' and that thought will prove decisive. What finally causes the balance to swing? I cannot know subjectively—but I can be sure that electrochemical events in my brain decide the matter. I know that given the requisite stimulus (whether internal or external), I will leap up from my desk and suddenly find myself doing something else. As a matter of experience, therefore, I can take no credit for the fact that I got to the end of this paragraph."
​

Here is the full article on free will by said neuroscientist author.

 

[bbyrd009]

Last time I checked characters in a book didn´t even act, so the question whether they make choices or not is, well, absurd.

This is not true, at least for our purposes? Even a fictional character 'acts' from the choices of the author...And again, it would depend upon your choice of books?

 

[bbyrd009]

Do this.

Think of a famous celebrity right now. Now try to understand why that person came to your mind and not another person. The point here is to show that one cannot account for why such thoughts arise because, while they may seem like conscious decisions, the thought processes which precede them are beyond your control, much like the processes in your body of which you are not aware.


As one author put it:

"My workflow may sound a little unconventional, but my experience of writing this article fully illustrates my view of free will. Thoughts and intentions arise; other thoughts and intentions arise in opposition. I want to sit down to write, but then I want something else—to exercise, perhaps. Which impulse will win? For the moment, I’m still writing, and there is no way for me to know why—because at other times I’ll think, 'This is useless. I’m going to the gym,' and that thought will prove decisive. What finally causes the balance to swing? I cannot know subjectively—but I can be sure that electrochemical events in my brain decide the matter. I know that given the requisite stimulus (whether internal or external), I will leap up from my desk and suddenly find myself doing something else. As a matter of experience, therefore, I can take no credit for the fact that I got to the end of this paragraph."
​

Here is the full article on free will by said neuroscientist author.

This reads as being mindless, imo. I take credit for all of my actions, and curtail the ones that do not produce the desired fruit; but I remember a time when I was mired in Philosophy, and reflected this pov, also. Past a certain point, at least, it is yack.

 

[bricklayer]

Actually, I wasn´t asking about your worldview but my question was prompted by your idea that fictional characters (in books) make choices.

Of course characters make choices; they make free-will choices. We are sometimes privy to their thoughts, feelings and wills leading up to those choices.
What characters and creatures do not do is choose from undetermined possibilities.

 

[quatona]

Of course characters make choices;

What does it mean for a fictional character to "make a choice"?

 

[bricklayer]

What does it mean for a fictional character to "make a choice"?

Albeit in coordination with the intellect and emotions, choice refers to an act of the will.

 

[quatona]

Albeit in coordination with the intellect and emotions, choice refers to an act of the will.

The emphasis in my question was meant to be on "for a fictional character".

 

[bricklayer]

The emphasis in my question was meant to be on "for a fictional character".

Your question seems to me to imply a distinction between the choice of a fictional character and a non-fictional character. There are only two types of choices: necessary and contingent. Contingent beings will always make contingent choices. That is to say that choice is, for contingent beings, a process.

We are sometimes privy to the choice processes of well written fictional characters and well written authors alike.

A process is a prescribed sequence of changes. We, human beings, are processes. We are a complex of intellectual, emotional, willful and biological process.

My emphasis is on the word prescribed. Creatures and fictional characters both choose to act, but neither choose from undetermined possibilities.

A fictional character and a human author are both finite; the difference between them is finite.
A necessary being is infinite, and a human author is finite; the difference between them is infinite.
We are infinitely more akin to a fictional character than we are to a necessary being.
I am left to believe that we are just as prescribed.

In other words, we are just as prescribed as are the fictional.