free will

[ThouArtThat]

An action is considered free, or voluntary, when it is the result of a decision. But if decisions themselves were voluntary, then every decision would be preceded by an infinite regression of decisions to decide, and so no final decision could ever be made.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[bricklayer]

An action is considered free, or voluntary, when it is the result of a decision. But if decisions themselves were voluntary, then every decision would be preceded by an infinite regression of decisions to decide, and so no final decision could ever be made.

You are about to touch on the difference between necessary and contingent.

God is necessary; everything else is contingent.

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

I think the decision starts the moment that it is necessary to make said decision.

 

[ThouArtThat]

I think the decision starts the moment that it is necessary to make said decision.

Ok, but for an action to be free, it must be the result of a decision, right? And a decision is an action itself, so for it to be free the decision itself must be the result of a decision, which means if we had free will we would never be able to act, because we would spend all eternity deciding to decide to decide to decide to decide, ad infinitum.

 

[ThouArtThat]

Maybe all of existence is a spontaneous act with no actor, because an actor with a will would get in the way of the action and it would never happen.

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

Ok, but for an action to be free, it must be the result of a decision, right? And a decision is an action itself, so for it to be free the decision itself must be the result of a decision, which means if we had free will we would never be able to act, because we would spend all eternity deciding to decide to decide to decide to decide, ad infinitum.

A decision is not an action.

 

[ThouArtThat]

A decision is not an action.

What is it then?

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

What is it then?

It is a decision, a thought, an intent, which might lead to action, but is not action.

 

[ThouArtThat]

It is a decision, a thought, an intent, which might lead to action, but is not action.

Isn't a thought a mental action, something the mind does?

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

Isn't a thought a mental action, something the mind does?

I don't think the mind does thoughts, the mind is thoughts.

 

[Cearbhall]

But if decisions themselves were voluntary, then every decision would be preceded by an infinite regression of decisions to decide, and so no final decision could ever be made.

What are your thoughts on this?

Decisions certainly are influenced by outside forces, but I consider "free will" to be present when it is physically possible to choose more than one option.

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

Decisions certainly are influenced by outside forces, but I consider "free will" to be present when it is physically possible to choose more than one option.

It is always physically possible to choose more than one option, unless one is unconscious.

 

[Cearbhall]

It is always physically possible to choose more than one option, unless one is unconscious.

Exactly.

 

[ThouArtThat]

I don't think the mind does thoughts, the mind is thoughts.

Thinking is a verb, not a noun.

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

Thinking is a verb, not a noun.

But a thought is a noun

 

[ThouArtThat]

It can be, just like an action can be a noun.

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

And a noun an action.

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

Like broom...I learned a few years ago that one can broom the floor.

 

[ThouArtThat]

What makes the act of thinking or deciding free? For an act to be free, it must be the result of a decision, right? Which means that for a decision to be free, it must be the result of a decision, which is the result of a decision, ad infinium.

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

What makes the act of thinking or deciding free? For an act to be free, it must be the result of a decision, right? Which means that for a decision to be free, it must be the result of a decision, which is the result of a decision, ad infinium.

Some thoughts start as the result of a thought while others as the result of an action. Some decisions are decided based on decisions while others are decided based on actions.