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As far as I can tell, most Christians believe in free will. They also believe that one cannot sin in heaven. How would you reconcile those beliefs?
As far as I can tell, most Christians believe in free will. They also believe that one cannot sin in heaven. How would you reconcile those beliefs?
It sounds like you're saying that the journey is important and that the end goal is not all that matters. If this is what you're saying, are you also saying that God was incapable of creating reality so that the journey doesn't matter?
But on Earth, it appears we can't, even if we want to. Because of, well, free will, apparently.
Why do you assume that God is incapable of doing something just because he doesn't do it? Why do you assume that it is better to not have the journey?
Love requires freedom
It's more accurate to say; God gives us the freedom to love what we choose. If we love death we can choose it.God gives us the freedom to love him or burn forever in the lake of the dead. Even slaves have more freedom than that.
You might be thinking of eternity as a measure of time. It's a moment without duration, beginning or end. What you are conceptualizing I think is a duration without end.The ratio of finite to infinite is zero. The infinitude of heaven makes this life absolutely pointless.
Rational creatures are by definition self determined. Do you mean predestined? Jesus demonstrated free will on the cross as someone who was predetermined. But we say He freely chose to die or it's not a sacrifice is it?It is impossible for humans reconcile free will and predetermination.
But God can manage it.
After 100 billion years in heaven, will you prefer to visit this universe again to remind yourself of what it's like to suffer? I think not.
Religion was invented to explain why we exist, yet your religion, if true, renders our existence on earth completely meaningless.
The ratio of finite to infinite is zero. The infinitude of heaven makes this life absolutely pointless.
Annihilation in the lake of fire is the final reconciliation.God gives us the freedom to love him or burn forever in the lake of the dead. Even slaves have more freedom than that.
Yes, but barely, which is why we have the Shema, so we know that our love for God HAS to come with a love for people.
But it seems the two are at odds fairly often. God is seen commanding massacres, torturing people arbitrarily, and plaguing entire cities in the Bible. The free will that he has “allowed” is the source of countless evils in the world. How can God be just if he cares more about receiving our freely-given love than eliminating evil?Yep the sum of all the commandments. Love God and our neighbor as ourself.
I do not have much in the way of scripture on this, but knowing God's Love and Lovers wanting to help others, I think those with Godly type Love will protect and preserve those who never had the opportunity to obtain Godly type Love (this is not a learning process to develop Godly type love, but a humbling process).But what then about all those who die before they're ever mature enough to learn any of this (assuming that dead children go to heaven)?
But it seems the two are at odds fairly often. God is seen commanding massacres, torturing people arbitrarily, and plaguing entire cities in the Bible. The free will that he has “allowed” is the source of countless evils in the world. How can God be just if he cares more about receiving our freely-given love than eliminating evil?
I know if you don't believe there is a God or that the Israelites were really hearing His voice, this answer is insufficient.But it seems the two are at odds fairly often. God is seen commanding massacres, torturing people arbitrarily, and plaguing entire cities in the Bible. The free will that he has “allowed” is the source of countless evils in the world. How can God be just if he cares more about receiving our freely-given love than eliminating evil?
Yes. And if God’s ideas of good and evil are different to mine, why should I defer to his? How am I wrong to call God a self-centered agent of evil if he allows countless aeons of human suffering just so a handful might love him freely one day?Part of the problem here, obviously, is the discordance between what a large number of people think is "evil" and what God thinks is "evil." Likewise, this goes for the discordance between one's thoughts about "justice" and God's thoughts about "justice."
Yes. And if God’s ideas of good and evil are different to mine, why should I defer to his? How am I wrong to call God a self-centered agent of evil if he allows countless aeons of human suffering just so a handful might love him freely one day?
Exactly. When God isn't considered the creator of all that is, then it's easy to subject Him to standards of judgement that only apply to creatures. A creature can never possess the information required to make a judgement against Him. One has to make God a much smaller God to do that.Part of the problem here, obviously, is the discordance between what a large number of people think is "evil" and what God thinks is "evil." Likewise, this goes for the discordance between one's thoughts about "justice" and God's thoughts about "justice."
I can see why you’d say that if you accept God as some kind of ultimate moral arbiter, but it’s meaningless to someone who doesn’t. I have as much a right to judge God against my standards as he does to judge me against his. If he decides to smite me because I’d rather see billions of people live happily than suffer so a few might come to love this cosmic thug, so be it. I’ll die knowing I’m morally superior.Because God is good and the fact that you can't "see" the actual social values for humanity that pour out of His Goodness and Holiness means that, for some reason, you're somehow spiritually blind. The upshot of this point is that, biblically speaking, it might not necessarily be your fault, or all your fault, that you are blind to the principles of righteousness, and thus, you simply don't see good and evil as they really are.
So.........just right off the bat, I wouldn't expect you to simply "defer" to God's Will without having come to some point where you've woken up to the fact that all that you've been spoon fed to think axiologically via Post-Enlightenment philosophy is also, somehow, a diabolical farce. I would expect someone in your position to stand his/her ground in the Face of God.
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