Free Speech

[Bluelion]

everyone is welcome to respond, however, I ask if you do not understand Americas Law of free speech that you do not comment it on it.

There is a 18 year old boy in a high school around my area who wrote a rap song called Columbine. In the song he speaks of murdering everyone in the school, he names teachers and what he will do to them and weapons. He up load the song to the internet and was arrest after after a teacher heard students speaking of the song and listen to it. The Boy is being charged with 5 felony for producing the song.

My question is should he be arrested and charged? No doubt the song is offensive, no doubt there is something wrong with this young man, but is it not his right to free speech? Does he not have the right to say what ever he wants no matter how offensive with out punishment? Is this a America today or 1939 Germany?

Now if they send this young man to jail for words how long until Christians are sent to jail for speaking about God? Or People for speaking out against elected officials? How long until free speech is no longer free? Is this the start of it with this young man?

I'll post the news link below so you can all here the news report, but what do you think?


East Stroudsburg classmates' reactions vary on student's arrest over 'Columbine' rap song | Regional: Poconos & Coal - Home

 

[Bluelion]

Here is another case of free speech this time a woman was told she had to remove a ten commandment sign from her own private property that can been seen from the highway.

Texas: Christian Ordered to Remove Ten Commandments from Property « Persecution News

 

[USCGrad90]

everyone is welcome to respond, however, I ask if you do not understand Americas Law of free speech that you do not comment it on it.

There is a 18 year old boy in a high school around my area who wrote a rap song called Columbine. In the song he speaks of murdering everyone in the school, he names teachers and what he will do to them and weapons. He up load the song to the internet and was arrest after after a teacher heard students speaking of the song and listen to it. The Boy is being charged with 5 felony for producing the song.

My question is should he be arrested and charged? No doubt the song is offensive, no doubt there is something wrong with this young man, but is it not his right to free speech? Does he not have the right to say what ever he wants no matter how offensive with out punishment? Is this a America today or 1939 Germany?

Now if they send this young man to jail for words how long until Christians are sent to jail for speaking about God? Or People for speaking out against elected officials? How long until free speech is no longer free? Is this the start of it with this young man?

I'll post the news link below so you can all here the news report, but what do you think?


East Stroudsburg classmates' reactions vary on student's arrest over 'Columbine' rap song | Regional: Poconos & Coal - Home

Keep in mind that free speech is not something protected only here in the US, but internationally as well. Also remember that there are limitations to free speech, typically referred to as the "harm principle" which is based on the implication of the speech. If a kid is thretening harm and inciting others to violence, then he is violating others' rights.

This is basically the old principle of not yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre due to the harm and panic it may cause.

 

[now faith]

It is a very fine line between free speech and attempting to start a riot.
Someone using a persuasive verbal method to cause harm.

The problem goes to the discretion of the authority's and that discretion can be abused.

 

[OzSpen]

everyone is welcome to respond, however, I ask if you do not understand Americas Law of free speech that you do not comment it on it.

There is a 18 year old boy in a high school around my area who wrote a rap song called Columbine. In the song he speaks of murdering everyone in the school, he names teachers and what he will do to them and weapons. He up load the song to the internet and was arrest after after a teacher heard students speaking of the song and listen to it. The Boy is being charged with 5 felony for producing the song.

My question is should he be arrested and charged? No doubt the song is offensive, no doubt there is something wrong with this young man, but is it not his right to free speech? Does he not have the right to say what ever he wants no matter how offensive with out punishment? Is this a America today or 1939 Germany?

Now if they send this young man to jail for words how long until Christians are sent to jail for speaking about God? Or People for speaking out against elected officials? How long until free speech is no longer free? Is this the start of it with this young man?

I'll post the news link below so you can all here the news report, but what do you think?

East Stroudsburg classmates' reactions vary on student's arrest over 'Columbine' rap song | Regional: Poconos & Coal - Home

'The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 19 (United Nations)' states:

Article 19.

• Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Has the USA ratified The Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Yes.

What are the limitations placed on this Article 19? The United Nations 'International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights' for Article 19 states:

1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.

2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

3. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:

(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others;
(b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.
​

Signatures to the United Nations Covenant on Civil and Political Rights include the USA and my country of Australia.

Therefore, freedom of opinion and expression in your country and mine is limited by these 3 principles.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Keep in mind that free speech is not something protected only here in the US, but internationally as well. Also remember that there are limitations to free speech, typically referred to as the "harm principle" which is based on the implication of the speech. If a kid is thretening harm and inciting others to violence, then he is violating others' rights.

This is basically the old principle of not yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre due to the harm and panic it may cause.

Thanks USC. This is not just a USA issue. The limitations on free speech should be consistent with The United Nations 'International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights' for Article 19.

 

[Bluelion]

But really have you listen to those rap songs by million dollar artist, I understand his rap was shocking I think he meant it to be, but jail time for that felony's. How long before they say Christians preaching this or that is a sin is called hate speech and charged with jail time. Wake up if we do not stand up for this shameful display of free speech we will not be able to stand up for our right to preach the word of God. A person must be free to speak what they want. The world did not always allow free speech. I am sure no one here needs a history lesson of what it was like back then. Jesus walked the earth in such a time. This always comes back to Christians brothers and Sisters, we are evils enemy. Evil goals is always to silents God's children so no one can hear the truth.

Any thoughts about the second post the ten commandments?

To my brothers and sisters around the world i hope I did not offend I was just trying to avoid misunderstandings, please participate.

 

[OzSpen]

But really have you listen to those rap songs by million dollar artist, I understand his rap was shocking I think he meant it to be, but jail time for that felony's. How long before they say Christians preaching this or that is a sin is called hate speech and charged with jail time. Wake up if we do not stand up for this shameful display of free speech we will not be able to stand up for our right to preach the word of God. A person must be free to speak what they want. The world did not always allow free speech. I am sure no one here needs a history lesson of what it was like back then. Jesus walked the earth in such a time. This always comes back to Christians brothers and Sisters, we are evils enemy. Evil goals is always to silents God's children so no one can hear the truth.

Any thoughts about the second post the ten commandments?

To my brothers and sisters around the world i hope I did not offend I was just trying to avoid misunderstandings, please participate.

However, what was stated in this song violated this fundamental that the USA has signed:

The United Nations 'International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights' for Article 19 states:

1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.

2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

3. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:

(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others;
(b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.
​

Signatures to the United Nations Covenant on Civil and Political Rights include the USA.

Please tell me how Christians preaching the Gospel or the Bible will be regarded as violating The United Nations 'International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights' for Article 19.

Oz

 

[USCGrad90]

But really have you listen to those rap songs by million dollar artist, I understand his rap was shocking I think he meant it to be, but jail time for that felony's. How long before they say Christians preaching this or that is a sin is called hate speech and charged with jail time. Wake up if we do not stand up for this shameful display of free speech we will not be able to stand up for our right to preach the word of God. A person must be free to speak what they want. The world did not always allow free speech. I am sure no one here needs a history lesson of what it was like back then. Jesus walked the earth in such a time. This always comes back to Christians brothers and Sisters, we are evils enemy. Evil goals is always to silents God's children so no one can hear the truth.

Any thoughts about the second post the ten commandments?

To my brothers and sisters around the world i hope I did not offend I was just trying to avoid misunderstandings, please participate.

I think the rap song and sign in the woman's yard are 2 different issues.
The rap song apparently cites specific individuals and refers to using weapons and causing harm to those that the person know by direct association. It is a threat and should be treated as such.

For the sign in the woman's yard, it sounds like the lawyers of Liberty Institute are addressing the issue. If she has violated some law or ordinance that is justified then it will be determined by the court, but as long as she is within any specified laws , then she should be free to make a display. The question is whether she was denied for the content or the reason that she may not have followed the rules in posting her sign.

I do not believe in defending someone's free speech if that speech is hateful to others. Westboro Baptist Church, KKK, New Black Panther Party, and others are groups with exhibitions hateful of individuals and groups.

 

[Bluelion]

I think the rap song and sign in the woman's yard are 2 different issues.
The rap song apparently cites specific individuals and refers to using weapons and causing harm to those that the person know by direct association. It is a threat and should be treated as such.

For the sign in the woman's yard, it sounds like the lawyers of Liberty Institute are addressing the issue. If she has violated some law or ordinance that is justified then it will be determined by the court, but as long as she is within any specified laws , then she should be free to make a display. The question is whether she was denied for the content or the reason that she may not have followed the rules in posting her sign.

I do not believe in defending someone's free speech if that speech is hateful to others. Westboro Baptist Church, KKK, New Black Panther Party, and others are groups with exhibitions hateful of individuals and groups.

If you don't defend all free speech even those which you disagree with, you can not defend any of it.

That is not free speech to say I like that message it is ok, but I don't like that so jail time. Many, Many people don't like what Christians have to say, so when Christians become the minority the Bible will no longer be able to be preached.

It seems free speech will be taken away. Seems many people think they can condemn things they don't like with out being condemn for things they say that some one else may not like.

You don't make the connection between the rap song and the ten commandments but I do, every one here approves of the Ten and no one the rap song, now if I was on an Atheist site or a gay site the ten would be condemned and the rap song might be seen as free speech. Tell me how many people do you think want to see Christians silent. i would bet many more than are Christian. So if majority rules then Christians will not be able to preach one day soon.

 

[Bluelion]

However, what was stated in this song violated this fundamental that the USA has signed:

The United Nations 'International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights' for Article 19 states:

1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.

2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

3. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:

(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others;
(b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.
​

Signatures to the United Nations Covenant on Civil and Political Rights include the USA.

Please tell me how Christians preaching the Gospel or the Bible will be regarded as violating The United Nations 'International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights' for Article 19.

Oz

Yeah and we know How England follows this they arrest preachers preaching on the street saying homosexuality is a sin. It is against the law there to say anything that offend another person. I could care less about the UN, it not a one world government I am in America and I resist the one world government because at the head of it will be anit christ. The UN is a joke. No one follows the things they sign with them, but in America we can hold our elected officials accountable.

 

[USCGrad90]

If you don't defend all free speech even those which you disagree with, you can not defend any of it.

That is not free speech to say I like that message it is ok, but I don't like that so jail time. Many, Many people don't like what Christians have to say, so when Christians become the minority the Bible will no longer be able to be preached.

It seems free speech will be taken away. Seems many people think they can condemn things they don't like with out being condemn for things they say that some one else may not like.

You don't make the connection between the rap song and the ten commandments but I do, every one here approves of the Ten and no one the rap song, now if I was on an Atheist site or a gay site the ten would be condemned and the rap song might be seen as free speech. Tell me how many people do you think want to see Christians silent. i would bet many more than are Christian. So if majority rules then Christians will not be able to preach one day soon.

Your point of view is driven based on the judgement of man made principles and not God. It is NOT OK to blaspheme the name of the Lord, to threaten evil, or otherwise invoke evil. I will stand by those that speak good and oppose those that speak evil. As a guide I have God's word - NOT the word of men. In this, I can defend what agrees with His word and oppose what does not. Man can not silence truth. If the government or any man chooses to silence me or those who speak truth, then as Luke 19:40 tells us, the rocks will cry out. I have no concern over an earthly defense of free speech. I will defend only those who speak truth. My understanding is limited, but what God has made clear is that the rap song that speaks of evil and death is greatly seperated from the words of the ten commandments. For me there is no connection between the two.

I understand your point here, but I do not justify what I say by what the majority says. Yes maybe one day I will be jailed or we will be judged by merely being Christians, but I do not worry that it will stop the Word of God.

 

[OzSpen]

Yeah and we know How England follows this they arrest preachers preaching on the street saying homosexuality is a sin. It is against the law there to say anything that offend another person. I could care less about the UN, it not a one world government I am in America and I resist the one world government because at the head of it will be anit christ. The UN is a joke. No one follows the things they sign with them, but in America we can hold our elected officials accountable.

I note that you provide no documentation or evidence to support your point about what is happening in England with preachers on the streets. Why don't you inform us by posting links?

I think you need to be more careful with your use of words such as 'no one follows the things they sign with them [UN]'. My country makes every attempt to.

Your country has signed this covenant: Signatures to the United Nations Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

By the way, the UN is not a one-world government, but a group of nations joining together to try to make a difference in our world. So are you against the UN convoys going into Nigeria to try to find those abducted girls? See United Nations News Centre - Nigerian President urges continued international support to fight terrorism

 

[now faith]

Let's look at it as a criminal offence in order to have been charged there must have been legal precedents.
I would be curious to know what he was charged with.

 

[Bluelion]

I note that you provide no documentation or evidence to support your point about what is happening in England with preachers on the streets. Why don't you inform us by posting links?

I think you need to be more careful with your use of words such as 'no one follows the things they sign with them [UN]'. My country makes every attempt to.

Your country has signed this covenant: Signatures to the United Nations Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

By the way, the UN is not a one-world government, but a group of nations joining together to try to make a difference in our world. So are you against the UN convoys going into Nigeria to try to find those abducted girls? See United Nations News Centre - Nigerian President urges continued international support to fight terrorism

Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin - Telegraph


Preacher arrested for saying gay love is a sin gets £13,000 - Telegraph


this one was in scotland

Police Arrest US Street Preacher in Scotland for Calling Homosexuality a Sin


That enough for ya?

 

[Bluelion]

Your point of view is driven based on the judgement of man made principles and not God. It is NOT OK to blaspheme the name of the Lord, to threaten evil, or otherwise invoke evil. I will stand by those that speak good and oppose those that speak evil. As a guide I have God's word - NOT the word of men. In this, I can defend what agrees with His word and oppose what does not. Man can not silence truth. If the government or any man chooses to silence me or those who speak truth, then as Luke 19:40 tells us, the rocks will cry out. I have no concern over an earthly defense of free speech. I will defend only those who speak truth. My understanding is limited, but what God has made clear is that the rap song that speaks of evil and death is greatly seperated from the words of the ten commandments. For me there is no connection between the two.

I understand your point here, but I do not justify what I say by what the majority says. Yes maybe one day I will be jailed or we will be judged by merely being Christians, but I do not worry that it will stop the Word of God.

God says to forgive, we are not Gods enforcers it is not our job to stone people for offense against God, do you not know this is what went on when Jesus walked the earth

 

[OzSpen]

Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin - Telegraph

Preacher arrested for saying gay love is a sin gets £13,000 - Telegraph

this one was in scotland

Police Arrest US Street Preacher in Scotland for Calling Homosexuality a Sin

That enough for ya?

Only when I prompted you to do it!

 

[Bluelion]

Only when I prompted you to do it!

well you could have googled it on your own

The last one is a video of him preaching watch what happens and peoples reacting to God's word its intresting if you have not already watched it.

 

[HantsUK]

Yeah and we know How England follows this they arrest preachers preaching on the street saying homosexuality is a sin. It is against the law there to say anything that offend another person. I could care less about the UN, it not a one world government I am in America and I resist the one world government because at the head of it will be anit christ. The UN is a joke. No one follows the things they sign with them, but in America we can hold our elected officials accountable.

Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin - Telegraph


Preacher arrested for saying gay love is a sin gets £13,000 - Telegraph


this one was in scotland

Police Arrest US Street Preacher in Scotland for Calling Homosexuality a Sin


That enough for ya?

And these quotes actually demonstrate the opposite of what you claimed. Mr Craven was awarded considerable compensation for wrongful arrest and the police admitted that they mishandled the incident. The Craven case says a lot more about PCSOs than about freedom of speech. You also need to understand that a PCSO (Police Community Support Officer) is not a real police officer but a civilian with very limited powers, and the cynics would say, even less understanding of the law.

However, the Gay community has become very powerful, and some within it will use any opportunity to promote their views and attack anyone who disagrees with them.

If you disagree with someone, then there are wise ways of expressing that and unwise ways. You can disagree without being insulting. And if someone is drunk or looking for a fight, keeping quiet might be the best option.

 

[Bluelion]

And these quotes actually demonstrate the opposite of what you claimed. Mr Craven was awarded considerable compensation for wrongful arrest and the police admitted that they mishandled the incident. The Craven case says a lot more about PCSOs than about freedom of speech. You also need to understand that a PCSO (Police Community Support Officer) is not a real police officer but a civilian with very limited powers, and the cynics would say, even less understanding of the law.

However, the Gay community has become very powerful, and some within it will use any opportunity to promote their views and attack anyone who disagrees with them.

If you disagree with someone, then there are wise ways of expressing that and unwise ways. You can disagree without being insulting. And if someone is drunk or looking for a fight, keeping quiet might be the best option.

Jesus offended People. The Bible is offensive to some people.