Free masons

[urnotme]

That's how I understood your post, urnotme. Thanks!

In that scripture Jesus was refering to the casting out of demons, but the same would be true for a religion too, or country. I was talking to the Rev. in my last post. He seemed to get a little defensive like I was attacking it. I didn't know Ken Copeland had negative feelings towards freemason but I'll ask him about it. I like the poster on the wall in his believers voice of victory broadcastd that says JESUS IS LORD. I pressed the edit button just so I could give you this

 

[billmcelligott]

In case you misunderstood my post I was trying to defend your faith.

I have something to interject here, just in case anyone runs away with the wrong idea.

Freemasonry is not a Faith. It supports its members in whichever faith they choose to follow.

I am a Freemason , I am of the Christian faith.

No one, since I became a Freemason has ever asked me to change or alter that Faith in any way.

 

[O.F.F.]

Freemasonry is not a Faith.

Oh, really?

Yet while all these-belief in God, honour to men, loyalty to the King, and recognition of social rights-are tenets of our Masonic faith, perhaps in a truer sense is the Pillar that guides the lonely mariner at sea a symbol of our Craft.

THE PILLARS OF FREEMASONRY THEIR ORIGIN AND MEANING by
WILLIAM HARVEY, J.P.

And, from Wayne's often quoted www.phoenixmasonry.org:

"Brotherly love, Relief and Truth," if a masonic faith, a masonic hope, and a masonic charity did not pervade the minds and hearts of those who entered and dwelt in her courts, then would the order exist only in name, a solemn mockery, a hiss and a bye-word, provoking only the contempt of the world and the reprobation of heaven.

So, if there isn't such a thing as a Masonic Faith, then why do Masons speak of one?

 

[Rev Wayne]

"Brotherly love, Relief and Truth," if a masonic faith, a masonic hope, and a masonic charity did not pervade the minds and hearts of those who entered and dwelt in her courts, then would the order exist only in name, a solemn mockery, a hiss and a bye-word, provoking only the contempt of the world and the reprobation of heaven.

So, if there isn't such a thing as a Masonic Faith, then why do Masons speak of one?

Once again, you ignore the basic roots of what is said. Remove the word "Masonic" from what was said, and you end up with "Faith, hope, and charity." That's a very common expression from a very commonly-used and quoted and memorized piece of Scripture, the 13th chapter of 1st Corinthians. You will find it commonly quoted in Masonry as well. The tenets of brotherly love, relief, and charity have no conflict with Christianity.

So the situation is the same once again, if Masonry must be characterized as a "faith" or "religion," I know of only one it could possibly be: the one whose Bible rests on its altar as Masonry's Great Light, the one which quotes exclusively from only one book considered sacred by any religion (the Holy Bible), the one that speaks of "the Lion of the tribe of Judah, who has prevailed to open the seven seals," the one which, when it does speak of names or attributes of God beyond the basic affirmation of Creator, does so in Judaeo-Christian terms like Jehovah or the Trinity. etc. etc.

But in truth it's not a religion and makes no requirement of any particular religion upon any individual. The majority of them by far are Christians, the estimates generally range about 85-90%. I've seen churches where I'd estimate a lower percentage than that.

 

[AlikhnKwizad]

Well, it's hit 200. Check back in at 300.

 

[billmcelligott]

The context is a mix of meanings and I give you the point it is a point upon which Freemasonry stumbles in my opinion.

I have Faith that you will always come up with something to discredit Freemasonry.

I have Faith in Jesus Christ , my Lord and Savior.

Are both Faiths the same ?

item 1

our Masonic faith, perhaps in a truer sense is the Pillar that guides the lonely mariner at sea a symbol of our Craft.

A faith in the principles of Freemasonry. A Freemason takes this so called blasphemous oath, "to be faithful to his God , his Country and its laws."

item2

if a masonic faith, a masonic hope, and a masonic charity did not pervade the minds and hearts of those who entered and dwelt in her courts

a faith in the principles of Freemasonry. "Without interfering in religious practice it expects each member to follow his own faith, and to place above all other duties his duty to God, by whatever name He is known."

"" from UGLE.

 

[cwebber]

Oh, really?

depends on the definition you use in a Worship sense, no Freemasonry is not a faith or a religion, But in a non-worship way of life sense Freemaosnry is a religion it is a way of life in helping others.

So, if there isn't such a thing as a Masonic Faith, then why do Masons speak of one?

See the above and get a Grip! quick playing word games Mike you know what is meant by it yet you choose to try to make something else out of it.

 

[billmcelligott]

Well, it's hit 200. Check back in at 300.

Not if we check you first.

 

[jlujan69]

I am highly doubtful of that claim. Anybody who claims to know the secrets of the Mason I am highly suspsicious of. How did they get the secrets? If they were former Masons then why are they breaking their oath not to divulge any secrets? From the outset, a person who breaks their oaths does not have much credibility in my eyes. It seems that former Masons have axes to grind.

Some Christian family members are/were Freemasons, and others are/were members of their female counterparts-the Eastern Star is one example I think. I do not see it as incompatiable with Christianity at all, and some-like the Shriners-do a great amount of good.

Diane

Might I assume, from this statement of yours, that if a former member of the Branch Davidians or Jim Jones cults broke ranks and said what really goes on, then they're automatically liars? Should we be suspicious? Yes. Should we automatically discount their testimonies as deceitful? Hardly. I've no problem stating and defending what my church believes, or any organization to which I belong, for that matter. There are no "grand imperial secrets" to guard.

 

[cwebber]

Might I assume, from this statement of yours, that if a former member of the Branch Davidians or Jim Jones cults broke ranks and said what really goes on, then they're automatically liars? Should we be suspicious? Yes. Should we automatically discount their testimonies as deceitful? Hardly. I've no problem stating and defending what my church believes, or any organization to which I belong, for that matter. There are no "grand imperial secrets" to guard.

I guess it would depended on if they were trying to sell something. Intertesting to note that Ankerburg and Weldon both claimed to have been Masons, Yet when caught in their Lie they both removed the material in the book but never made a Note of it.

Should we be suspicious. Scripture tells us we should always trial the spirits that come to use to see if they are of God or not. Well Try those who are Against Freemasonry it has been my experince that only one has stood to be an Honorable man so far as I know. The rest seem to claim to Freemaosnry can over power Christ because they state that the same fate will fall on the Christian Mason as it will the Hindu, Jewish, and Muslim Mason the Apron will come off or Burn Off. Implying the Christian who is a Mason will burn in Hell with the others.

Tell me if I tried this spirit of Anti-Masonry against Scripture how do you think it would stand.

Anti-Masons have stated that a Christian will burn in Hell, Scripture tells use Christ covers all sins. Which is True.

We know Mr. Gentry stand with those who state a Christian who is a Mason will burn in Hell. He has yet to renounce them.

I've no problem stating and defending what my church believes, or any organization to which I belong, for that matter. There are no "grand imperial secrets" to guard.

Niether do I that is why we are here to defend our Christian Brothers who are being told they are going to Hell because they are Masons. And we are defending Masonry which teaches to Love your nieghbor.

 

[jlujan69]

I guess it would depended on if they were trying to sell something. Intertesting to note that Ankerburg and Weldon both claimed to have been Masons, Yet when caught in their Lie they both removed the material in the book but never made a Note of it.

Should we be suspicious. Scripture tells us we should always trial the spirits that come to use to see if they are of God or not. Well Try those who are Against Freemasonry it has been my experince that only one has stood to be an Honorable man so far as I know. The rest seem to claim to Freemaosnry can over power Christ because they state that the same fate will fall on the Christian Mason as it will the Hindu, Jewish, and Muslim Mason the Apron will come off or Burn Off. Implying the Christian who is a Mason will burn in Hell with the others.

Tell me if I tried this spirit of Anti-Masonry against Scripture how do you think it would stand.

Anti-Masons have stated that a Christian will burn in Hell, Scripture tells use Christ covers all sins. Which is True.

We know Mr. Gentry stand with those who state a Christian who is a Mason will burn in Hell. He has yet to renounce them.



Niether do I that is why we are here to defend our Christian Brothers who are being told they are going to Hell because they are Masons. And we are defending Masonry which teaches to Love your nieghbor.

Despite appearances, my post was not intended to be a statement for or against Masons. I was simply responding to what looked to be a knee-jerk claim, namely that anyone who provides information about whatever his former organization was (not necessarily Masons) is automatically a liar. Of course, we must evaluate the claims instead of just blindly assuming that someone is telling the truth (or lying for that matter).

 

[Rev Wayne]

We know Mr. Gentry stand with those who state a Christian who is a Mason will burn in Hell. He has yet to renounce them.

He will stand with them no matter what they say, they generally stand as a unit, like the "ex-Mason League."

Nor did he ever give up his support of Ankerberg and Weldon and their lies, even after they were clearly exposed. Mike's bosom buddy posted a quote on their forum about the founding fathers of our country being Deists, and I entered the quote in my browser just to see what would come up. The only two hits I pulled up were infidels.org and buffaloatheists.com--yet he chose to stand with atheists' revisionist arguments rather than concede the point.

So I figure we must be worse company than I thought--seeing how they seem to prefer to stand with liars and unbelievers.

 

[cwebber]

Your Call Mike will your put O.F.F those who declare that Christ can be over taken or will you stand with those who declare the word FROM God.

 

[cwebber]

Definitions

Lion of the Tribe of Judah
In the Tribal benediction pronounced upon Judah, the "Lion's whelp" is used Emblematically of Strength; hence, the ensign on the banner of Judah was a lion. The phrase in the Masonic Ritual. "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah," is Messianic and refers to Christ, the anointed of God and royal head of God's kingdom.


Creation
Freemasonry recognizes Jehovah God as the great architect ofthe universe, as the creator of all things, both material and spiritual; and it accepts the account of creation given in the book of Genesis and confirmes by the Scriptures. To a Mason, the earth and the Heavens declare the glory of God.

 

[DrFate]

Do you have a problem with people creating new allegories? Do you have problems understanding 17th century pseudo leagalese? How many time do the Freemasons have to tell you that the purpose of the rituals is not personal salvation or ducking the wrath of an imaginary invisible man, or to recieve pie in the sky when you die?

Also the PH recognition is recent, and I had members of my lodge resigne from the fraternity when the GL recognised the PH. Just as well they left as far as I was concerned.

 

[DrFate]

Of course you should remember that the vast majority, about 80% of Masonic population of the world attend Christian Churches ?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

We see here that Christianity has about 33% of the worlds population claiming membership. From this approximately 4.8 Million Freemasons claim membership.

So it is not an either or situation. Posters are trying to give the impression that Freemasonry is a Religion, if that is so why do its members not give up their Christian Faith. Its easy to do, you just say OK I am not a Christian, There is nothing to stop every one of those 4.8 saying just that.

So ask yourself why they do not. to keep the answer un-obfuscate. Because they believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and savior and no one is going to tell them otherwise. Its called Faith, a blind faith that will not be moved shuffled or shifted by others.

It is very common that the active Mason is an active Church member. You may wish to refer to Waynes piece to see , where did he meet his Masons?

The detractors would have you believe that these men of good, honest and true character , pray to a concocted God on Friday and go to Church on Sunday. Ask yourself why? why on Earth would they bother.

Yes and it is often the case that Freemasons are officers of the church they attend. It make sense really, because they are trying to help their fellow man.

 

[DrFate]

Then could you please share that information with e=mv^2? He keeps rambling on about these Buddhists and Hindus who are Masons, who also seem to have forgotten to relinquish their religious choice.

I guess he forgot all the Anglican clergy who are Freemasons also. Oh wait maybe the Anglicans are not "Really Christian Enough".

 

[DrFate]

Maybe Mike is correct, maybe Freemasonry is a sneaky trick by the Jews to convert christians from christianity to judhism. They might even start people thinking Jesus was a Jew instead of a Christian. Oh my, oh my, oh my!

 

[DrFate]

I took the Lions Grip of Judah to mean that following Gods paths of holiness would keep me from falling prey to evil people and thereby destroying myself. Pure Satanism I guess.

 

[DrFate]

Mike when I look at your post I realise one could say:
If Christianity is open to any interpretation one sees it to be with the resulting diversity of Christian churches, then the O. F. F interpretation and that of the vast majority of Christian denominations is just as invalid as any other heretical group. We see evil, you see good, and God knows exactly what it is and you'll find out soon enough that you were WRONG ALL ALONG.
Everybody has a right to be wrong. So what if you disagree with a bonefied genius like me. The smart ones will know that I'm right. But everybody has a right to be wrong.