Fr. Ripperger: 10 PROBLEMS IN THE TRADITIONALIST MOVEMENT

[Gnarwhal]

This is a great article, especially coming from Fr. Ripperger, who's a well-respected priest in the trad community. He lists some important things that I wish trads would consider more closely in self-examination, because it's really hurting growth.

I'll list what Fr. Ripperger lists, but I'll leave his expansion on those items in the link for your reading:

1. Becoming a Gnostic & Elitist
2. Impurity
3. Generational Spirits
4. Isolationist Attitude
5. Depression & Despair
6. Anger
7. Disrespect of Authority and the Magisterium
8. Loose, Reckless Argumentation
9. Bullying people

10 Problems in the Traditionalist Movement

This article's actually from 2019, but I think it's wild I came across it today because I was just having a conversation earlier about a problematic individual at a young adult group. He's a radtrad and gets into squabbles with people, particularly my friend who's a leader of this group. I think this person might tick every item on that list.

 

[pdudgeon]

Hmmm. After reading your post, I think that would be more of a personal problem of the individual, and not necessarily tied to any group, especially the traditionalists that I know.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Why does the author point to the Amish when the retention rate is so high? Most Amish become baptized and choose to live that lifestyle. Some isolation from the harmful elements of society seems beneficial since if you let modernity sink in, the less likely you are to abandon it.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

They need a good trad priest for their Father-Confessor or Spiritual Director. Being in obedience to either or one's own trad pastor is integral towards the quelling of the passions and one's own vices.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

This is a great article, especially coming from Fr. Ripperger, who's a well-respected priest in the trad community. He lists some important things that I wish trads would consider more closely in self-examination, because it's really hurting growth.

I'll list what Fr. Ripperger lists, but I'll leave his expansion on those items in the link for your reading:

1. Becoming a Gnostic & Elitist
2. Impurity
3. Generational Spirits
4. Isolationist Attitude
5. Depression & Despair
6. Anger
7. Disrespect of Authority and the Magisterium
8. Loose, Reckless Argumentation
9. Bullying people

10 Problems in the Traditionalist Movement

This article's actually from 2019, but I think it's wild I came across it today because I was just having a conversation earlier about a problematic individual at a young adult group. He's a radtrad and gets into squabbles with people, particularly my friend who's a leader of this group. I think this person might tick every item on that list.

Father Ripperger makes some good points. I know it is difficult in these latter times but we need to remember that it is finished. Christ has died, Christ has risen and Christ will come again. The enemy is defeated.

Yes it is tough.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Why does the author point to the Amish when the retention rate is so high? Most Amish become baptized and choose to live that lifestyle. Some isolation from the harmful elements of society seems beneficial since if you let modernity sink in, the less likely you are to abandon it.

I'm pretty sure the Amish are in the anabaptist stream of protestantism, so they wouldn't ever get baptized. But I suppose your point is still made.

I guess the motivation for that isolation is what's important. I don't think the Amish are necessarily fearful of the outside world, they just don't approve of it (which I can relate to). Compared with Rod Dreher whose motives obviously seem rooted in fear. That's the wrong point of origin.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I'm pretty sure the Amish are in the anabaptist stream of protestantism, so they wouldn't ever get baptized. But I suppose your point is still made.

I guess the motivation for that isolation is what's important. I don't think the Amish are necessarily fearful of the outside world, they just don't approve of it (which I can relate to). Compared with Rod Dreher whose motives obviously seem rooted in fear. That's the wrong point of origin.

You become baptized in the Amish community when you're an adult and make the choice to enter into the community.

Amish motivation is not fear, not anymore than necessary but what makes you think that of Dreher? I read his blog fairly regularly and don't see fear as much as a prescient warning about the future of Christianity in the west.

 

[Gnarwhal]

You become baptized in the Amish community when you're an adult and make the choice to enter into the community.

Amish motivation is not fear, not anymore than necessary but what makes you think that of Dreher? I read his blog fairly regularly and don't see fear as much as a prescient warning about the future of Christianity in the west.

Insight from Austin Ruse, who knows him well and worked with him quite a bit going back to when The Benedict Option was just a column Dreher was writing.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Insight from Austin Ruse, who knows him well and worked with him quite a bit going back to when The Benedict Option was just a column Dreher was writing.

Is he wrong to be fearful about the future of Christianity in the west?

 

[Gnarwhal]

Is he wrong to be fearful about the future of Christianity in the west?

Inasmuch that we're not to remove ourselves from the world, yes. It's one thing to be wary of what's going on and be prepared, but by Ruse's account Dreher's pretty extreme. Much like my ex-mother-in-law who nearly ruined her family financially because she thought God was telling her to build a doomsday hideout in the mountains of Northern California to ride out Y2K. After that came and went it was on to the next, event, and the next and the next but never any apologies for being wrong.

Dreher may not be soothsaying but his behavior is still very close, based in a kind of fear that we're not supposed to have. We're supposed to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves, but not ruled by fear. Plain and simple.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Inasmuch that we're not to remove ourselves from the world, yes. It's one thing to be wary of what's going on and be prepared, but by Ruse's account Dreher's pretty extreme. Much like my ex-mother-in-law who nearly ruined her family financially because she thought God was telling her to build a doomsday hideout in the mountains of Northern California to ride out Y2K. After that came and went it was on to the next, event, and the next and the next but never any apologies for being wrong.

Dreher may not be soothsaying but his behavior is still very close, based in a kind of fear that we're not supposed to have. We're supposed to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves, but not ruled by fear. Plain and simple.

How is he wrong though? What specifically is extreme in his behavior? You mean the benedict option as a solution to de-Christianization?

 

[Gnarwhal]

How is he wrong though? What specifically is extreme in his behavior? You mean the benedict option as a solution to de-Christianization?

More or less.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

More or less.

I would hardly call that extreme.

Extreme is the Stylite option.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I would hardly call that extreme.

Extreme is the Stylite option.

We're not supposed to retreat. We're supposed to be on the offensive, projecting out into the world to convert the world. Not sitting on our laurels either in hiding or passively waiting for converts to come to us.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

We're not supposed to retreat. We're supposed to be on the offensive, projecting out into the world to convert the world. Not sitting on our laurels either in hiding or passively waiting for converts to come to us.

I understand that idea, but given the specific hostility of the world and it's desire to see Christians not be Christians any more that might not be a realistic option. I'm a fan of living in the world myself but Christianity at this moment cannot be effective without inward reflection and building up the faithful in their confidence, love and knowledge of all things.

The world at the moment demands things on it's own terms. The more we fight and struggle against it the more the world will attempt to strangle us. There is nothing wrong with a quiet strategy, one which encourages Christians to be the best they can. To find likeminded people and tightknit communities which build us up.

At the moment that might be the best option. Christianity has already lost. But I don't see this as reason to despair. Saint Paul once looked at an empire awash in idolatry. It took three patient centuries for things to change.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I understand that idea, but given the specific hostility of the world and it's desire to see Christians not be Christians any more that might not be a realistic option. I'm a fan of living in the world myself but Christianity at this moment cannot be effective without inward reflection and building up the faithful in their confidence, love and knowledge of all things.

The world at the moment demands things on it's own terms. The more we fight and struggle against it the more the world will attempt to strangle us. There is nothing wrong with a quiet strategy, one which encourages Christians to be the best they can. To find likeminded people and tightknit communities which build us up.

At the moment that might be the best option. Christianity has already lost. But I don't see this as reason to despair. Saint Paul once looked at an empire awash in idolatry. It took three patient centuries for things to change.

I understand that idea, but given the specific hostility of the world and it's desire to see Christians not be Christians any more that might not be a realistic option. I'm a fan of living in the world myself but Christianity at this moment cannot be effective without inward reflection and building up the faithful in their confidence, love and knowledge of all things.

The world at the moment demands things on it's own terms. The more we fight and struggle against it the more the world will attempt to strangle us. There is nothing wrong with a quiet strategy, one which encourages Christians to be the best they can. To find likeminded people and tightknit communities which build us up.

At the moment that might be the best option. Christianity has already lost. But I don't see this as reason to despair. Saint Paul once looked at an empire awash in idolatry. It took three patient centuries for things to change.

13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

We have nothing to fear nor do we need to go into hiding. If we are persecuted then rejoice because they persecuted Christ and his apostles.

we are not called to prepare bug out bags or mountain hideouts nor are we called to cower in fear. We have a long history of examples regarding those who refused to be silenced.

 

[Gnarwhal]

The world at the moment demands things on it's own terms. The more we fight and struggle against it the more the world will attempt to strangle us. There is nothing wrong with a quiet strategy, one which encourages Christians to be the best they can. To find likeminded people and tightknit communities which build us up.

I understand what you're saying but our response isn't supposed to be that we cut and run while letting the world have it's way. We fight back to the bitter end. We claw and we scrape and we do whatever we can to see the Social Kingship of Christ realized. To see souls saved. If we retreat from the world and circle the wagons then we abdicate our charge, given by Christ, to convert others so their eternal souls might be saved.

At the moment that might be the best option. Christianity has already lost. But I don't see this as reason to despair. Saint Paul once looked at an empire awash in idolatry. It took three patient centuries for things to change.

I'm not sure what we have lost. We're losing, but we haven't lost. The issue isn't whether we should retreat, the issue is who should we punish for dropping the ball. Especially with the clergy. Revival can come at any time, even with how bleak things look right now. In the meantime we suffer, we press on, and we hope that the pendulum begins to swing the other day. But like the great Winston Churchill said, never give up. Never surrender.