Founders of Freemasonry?

[Skip Sampson]

Just because Hall is on some Grand Lodge reading list doesn't mean he represents the teachings of any Grand Lodge.

One is known by the company he keeps. Once a GL puts Hall on their recommended reading list, they have endorsed its content. When the GL recommends you read it, it means there is something therein that has been found relevant.

You always fail to understand that Freemasonry isn't a religion with dogmas, it is a fraternity that lets its members think for themselves.

As I've noted elsewhere, I believe that Freemasonry is a religion. As to its dogmas, I think they exist as well, but that can be discussed elsewhere. Too, I think it's generally understood that Freemasonry is a religious organization; certainly some GL's plainly state that as a fact. Your characterization of it as a fraternity misses that important fact. I suspect such comments are intended to hide unpleasant truths which you do not wish to address.

Finally, I'm sure Masons can think for themselves on occasion, but I find a lot of group-think among the Craft. My own personal view is that Masons can only go so far in discussions about Freemasonry, and refuse to think beyond what they've learned, or have been told, in lodge. The lack of factual response to my criticisms is a function of that inability to think critically about Freemasonry. At any rate, I would not characterize the average Mason as a free-thinker as we understand the concept.

It is one of the biggest mistakes that anti-masons make is equating the views of an individual Mason with the views of the Fraternity.

I think you are wrong on two fronts. First, you speak for Freemasonry all the time; thus you either properly reflect the views of the group or you don't. Secondly, the opinions of well-informed Freemasons do carry weight in any discussion of the subject.

Here is an example of that. The following is from Allen E. Roberts' The Craft and its Symbols:

You, as a Freemason, have formed a partnership with God. it is a partnership that will assist you in accomplishing anything you attempt that has His approval.

You have learned that Freemasonry calls God "The Great Architect of the Universe." This is the Freemason's special name for God, because He is universal. He belongs to all men regardless of their religious persuasion. All wise men acknowledge His authority. In his private devotions a Mason will pray to Jehovah, Mohammad, Allah, Jesus or the Deity of his choice. In a Masonic Lodge, however, the Mason will find the name of his Deity within the Great Architect of the Universe. (pg. 6)

Now, according to your view, you will discount what he says under the view that it's just his opinion. That is how you will avoid having to explain where Mr. Roberts got that from or to defend the view as consistent with Masonic teachings.

But it's not that simple. What Mr. Roberts says is also found in authoritative GL sources. The ritual, for example, makes this claim during the opening prayer of the EA degree:

Vouchsafe Thine aid, Almighty Father of the Universe, to this our present convention; and grant that this candidate for Masonry may dedicate and devote his life to Thy service and become a true and faithful brother among us. (Iowa Monitor, 1991, pg. 9)

That prayer is standard in all GLs, so his view of the partnership with God is fully supported by GL ritual.

His comment on the GAOTU is also found fully supported, should you ever find the time to read my thread entitled The Masonic Concept of God. So the point here is that Mr. Roberts can be taken as being truthful about Freemasonry in his comments on the basis of his long experience in Masonry, the esteem in which he is held by other Freemasons and the fact that his comments are solidly based on Masonic ritual and other GL statements. Thus, your view that no Mason speaks for Freemasonry is, on its face, wrong, and it's purpose is merely to avoid intelligent discussion of the implications of what they have told us. In short, it's intellectual cowardice.

As to Jubilee ministries, have you ever noticed that anti-masonic groups and their leaders are almost always run on some obscure website and have little to no connection with mainstream faith and little or no backing from any major faith group?

No, but I've noticed that Masons reject their comments out of hand, usually without listening to what they have to say or factually pointing out their errors. You don't want to deal with the contents of their websites, so you merely insult and demand that we move on. More of that cowardice I mentioned earlier.

I'm not impressed Skip by self-appointed experts on Freemasonry or religion either for that matter.

I can well believe that. You have a practice of not reading our comments for content, nor addressing in open forum the errors you claim we make. Beyond that, I doubt very much that we strive for your good opinion, only that you address us publicly in the same factual manner as we address you. I look forward to the day that happens. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I performed a Christian wedding at the Scottish Rite Consistory a few weeks ago. So I sure don't know what he is talking about. The groom is a member of my lodge, I believe a Lutheran and his wife is Roman Catholic.

Question for our Orthodox friends: Had this marriage involved an Orthodox woman and a Lutheran man, what would the view of your Church be on its validity? Perhaps a Catholic on this forum could weigh in as well. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Albion]

The question you ask has nothing to do with Masonry, however. Most of us can answer what the Orthodox churches' policy would be with regard to the marriage of one of their members as performed by any non-Catholic pastor.

Question for our Orthodox friends: Had this marriage involved an Orthodox woman and a Lutheran man, what would the view of your Church be on its validity? Perhaps a Catholic on this forum could weigh in as well. Cordially, Skip.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

I was going to do a clean up but this thread is a mess! The rules include these:
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If your posts focus on "you" as in the other member, then the post is probably about the other member and not the topic. That is happening quite a bit in this thread! Also, the thread has been off topic and is going there again. This thread is also generating reports.
It is closed.

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