Founders of Freemasonry?

[americanvet]

Why do you continue down the same path post after post? I've shown you numerous times that just because you can read doesn't give you complete knowledge on a subject.

You may be very "book" smart. Without applied knowledge what you know is much less than you think.

Take me for example. You claim my lodge breaks OK grand lodge rules. Yet every mason on here understands how we work within the rules to keep non Christians from becoming members. Heck, most don't agree with what we do, yet they know how we've done this for decades.

How do they know this? They are masons with applied knowledge.

Absolutely correct. While I don't condone the action the way in which it is done is well within Masonic customs.

 

[americanvet]

Two things. One just because I don't condone the above does not mean I don't condone the person. I don't condone Skips actions and statements but I still consider him a brother in Christ and hope to see him in heaven one day. Also just because you don't agree with something or your understanding of a subject does not line up with another's does not make you right and them wrong.

The church has been split over so many things in the past and will be split over things in the future. We need to be willing to put aside the small things and focus on spreading the love of Christ to the lost. Not telling other Christians you're wrong.

 

[Rhamiel]

what does Freemasonry saw about the Great Architect?

 

[Albion]

what does Freemasonry saw about the Great Architect?

He is One, and he saves mortals.

 

[circuitrider]

You'll notice the denominations listed are mostly spin off denominations from the original with the exeption of the Baptists in Britain. And most of them represent smaller bodies of that denominational family rather than the major denomination in the family with the exception of the SBC that actually does not forbid Masonic membership. A vote to do that came up and it failed.

For example the PCA is a split off the mainstream PCUSA. The CRC is small ultraconservative group rather than Reformed Church of America which is the maintream reformed denomination. The Nazerens and Free Methodists are splits off the mainstream Methodist denomination.

Largely the denominations that reject Freemasonry are smaller split offs from the larger denominational family.

 

[Simpleman25]

Two things. One just because I don't condone the above does not mean I don't condone the person. I don't condone Skips actions and statements but I still consider him a brother in Christ and hope to see him in heaven one day. Also just because you don't agree with something or your understanding of a subject does not line up with another's does not make you right and them wrong.

The church has been split over so many things in the past and will be split over things in the future. We need to be willing to put aside the small things and focus on spreading the love of Christ to the lost. Not telling other Christians you're wrong.

The one that says the least, says it better than any of us.

Ive said all my life that if ALL Christians put down the sword against one another and spread the love of Christ, there would be more Christians in the world. Making it a better place for all of us. Masons, and non mason alike.

Good words Vet!

 

[Rhamiel]

You'll notice the denominations listed are mostly spin off denominations from the original with the exeption of the Baptists in Britain. And most of them represent smaller bodies of that denominational family rather than the major denomination in the family with the exception of the SBC that actually does not forbid Masonic membership. A vote to do that came up and it failed.

For example the PCA is a split off the mainstream PCUSA. The CRC is small ultraconservative group rather than Reformed Church of America which is the maintream reformed denomination. The Nazerens and Free Methodists are splits off the mainstream Methodist denomination.

Largely the denominations that reject Freemasonry are smaller split offs from the larger denominational family.

well a few small Protestant denominations are against Freemasonry
but we also have Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy rejecting Freemasonry

and that is well over half of all Christians

 

[Albion]

well a few small Protestant denominations are against Freemasonry

That's basically it. And a few of greater size, too, but the total number of church bodies to have taken a negative stand is quite small.

but we also have Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy rejecting Freemasonry

and that is well over half of all Christians

It's two denominations. And the RCC took its stand for political reasons.

So that pretty much summarizes the debate we've been having on this point.

 

[circuitrider]

That's basically it. And a few of greater size, too, but the total number of church bodies to have taken a negative stand is quite small.



It's two denominations. And the RCC took its stand for political reasons.

So that pretty much summarizes the debate we've been having on this point.

When the RCC took its first stand against Freemasonry it also took a stand against public education, separation of church and state, freedom of religion, and was critical of democracy.

Remember Rhamiel, as Protestants the opinion of the Roman Catholic Church on a lot of issues carries little weight with us. We already disagree with the RCC on a number of issues, this is just one more among many fundamental differences of opinion between much of Protestantism and the RCC.

 

[Rhamiel]

That's basically it. And a few of greater size, too, but the total number of church bodies to have taken a negative stand is quite small.



It's two denominations. And the RCC took its stand for political reasons.

So that pretty much summarizes the debate we've been having on this point.

the RCC did it prohibits membership in Freemasonry because the Church is concerned about the salvation of sinners

and...
those in glass houses...

 

[Rhamiel]

When the RCC took its first stand against Freemasonry it also took a stand against public education, separation of church and state, freedom of religion, and was critical of democracy.

Remember Rhamiel, as Protestants the opinion of the Roman Catholic Church on a lot of issues carries little weight with us. We already disagree with the RCC on a number of issues, this is just one more among many fundamental differences of opinion between much of Protestantism and the RCC.

earlier in this thread you held up your own credentials as a learned minister
but you seem so quick to discount all of the wise and sober minded Bishops of the RCC and EO and OO who disagree with you on this

democracy was a new thing, and it the early view of it was flavored by the atrocities of the French Revolution in Europe, so you can understand why early views of it were apprehensive.

 

[circuitrider]

Again, Rhamiel, I'm a Protestant minister. I never said that I agreed with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church. Nor do I believe that the Papal Bull which opposed democracy and public education was wise.

You are in the wrong forum if you are expecting many if any of us to agree with Roman Catholic doctrine.

I happen to be a fan of Pope Francis and one of the reasons I am is that me makes no pretense of being infallible. He has already declared that he will make no ex cathedra pronouncements.

I respect Bishops, including the current Bishop of Rome, but I don't deem any of them to be infallible. The best Bishops have been good people doing a tough job. The worst Bishops have been people hungry for power and control. The Church has seen both in its 2000 year history.

 

[Albion]

the RCC did it prohibits membership in Freemasonry because the Church is concerned about the salvation of sinners

Sorry, but the reason was political. We discussed this before.

Of course, the Church isn't going to admit it, but historians will attest to the real reasons. You know, I hope, that the reason Papal Infallibility just had to be declared at the particular moment in history when it was (and there was no special controversy raging about it) was for a similar reason.

 

[Simpleman25]

Again, Rhamiel, I'm a Protestant minister. I never said that I agreed with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church. Nor do I believe that the Papal Bull which opposed democracy and public education was wise.

You are in the wrong forum if you are expecting many if any of us to agree with Roman Catholic doctrine.

I happen to be a fan of Pope Francis and one of the reasons I am is that me makes no pretense of being infallible. He has already declared that he will make no ex cathedra pronouncements.

I respect Bishops, including the current Bishop of Rome, but I don't deem any of them to be infallible. The best Bishops have been good people doing a tough job. The worst Bishops have been people hungry for power and control. The Church has seen both in its 2000 year history.

I tease my son in law that now that Pope Francis is in charge, I won't mind going to church with him anymore!

There are many, many good bishops and priest around the world. The senior priest that christened my granddaughter reminds me of Pope Francis in many ways. He has lived in the same tiny apartment in Kansas City for 53 years. 1 chair, table, bed, desk, and bookshelf. Walks everywhere. Just a beautiful soul touched by God.

 

[circuitrider]

I tease my son in law that now that Pope Francis is in charge, I won't mind going to church with him anymore!

There are many, many good bishops and priest around the world. The senior priest that christened my granddaughter reminds me of Pope Francis in many ways. He has lived in the same tiny apartment in Kansas City for 53 years. 1 chair, table, bed, desk, and bookshelf. Walks everywhere. Just a beautiful soul touched by God.

That sounds like a priest I'd enjoy knowing and listening to.

Lists of Churches/denominations that are for and against Freemasonry just doesn't prove anything. We could argue about baptismal theology, soteriology, the sacraments etc. and we'd all disagree about those issues too, and those are far more important issues than membereship in fraternal organizations.

 

[Skip Sampson]

You may be very "book" smart. Without applied knowledge what you know is much less than you think.

Take me for example. You claim my lodge breaks OK grand lodge rules. Yet every mason on here understands how we work within the rules to keep non Christians from becoming members.

Ok, how do you circumvent the GL rules to discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs? And since such discrimination is the goal, doesn't the hypocrisy of your methods become clear? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Sorry, no. We've explained Freemasonry and answered questions from every inquirer...

Untrue. If you are so open in answering questions, answer mine concerning your post #91.

I won't be drawn into an exchange of insults...

Meaning you'll just throw out the slander and not respond to it? That's exactly what you have done in the referenced post. Is your conscience so seared by Freemasonry that you can't see the truth about what you are doing? Cordially, Skip.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The one who posts here most often and once was a Mason until disciplined by his lodge

To whom do you refer? And what is your source for that charge? Cordially, Skip.

Do you mean post #104 where you ask the above question about post #91?

 

[Albion]

Untrue. If you are so open in answering questions, answer mine concerning your post #91.

I said that we respond to all the inquiries from people wanting to know more about Masonry. The "Have you stopped eating babies yet?" type of interrogation is not part of that invitation, and in fact it's an abuse of our willingness to be open and helpful.

 

[Simpleman25]

Ok, how do you circumvent the GL rules to discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs? And since such discrimination is the goal, doesn't the hypocrisy of your methods become clear? Cordially, Skip.

If you were knowledgeable enough you would know we don't circumvent anything.

A brother mason on this very forum answered this for you. Instead of accepting it, you blow it off and continue to make false accusations. Every mason on this site know exactly how my home lodge can be made up of only Christians. They may not like it, but they know how we do it. Yet still be recognized by our GL. We're recognized and known by other states as well.

You can say whatever you like. Until you have applied knowledge, it leaves you lacking actual knowledge.

I know that burns you up inside. You'll have to deal with it.